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Jodie.Lynne

The superiority of one's beliefs

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Mr Walker
10 hours ago, Kleng said:

I'm not gonna get into what I do or don't believe, but I'm glad this has been addressed because I've refrained from posting on this site for years for this exact reason alone.

A decade ago this site used to be very receptive to "open dialogue" about a massive range of subjects, if people disagreed on a matter, it would be discussed openly and intelligently with very little smugness or "smarter than thou" attitudes. It was a comfortable community to be a part of. 

Now I can hardly stand to open threads or read comments on subjects because people seem to be in the mindset of their way being the only right way, not to mention sometimes simply being unwittingly (and factually) wrong about certain things while having their nose stuck in the air believing they are right. For instance, someone saying polar bears ate penguins. They don't. Polar bears and penguins don't even live on the same continent as one another. Literally on opposite sides of the planet. 

Anywho, with all that being said, there have been times I've internalized the idea of "knowing something you don't know", but have always tried to consciously treat my peers with sincerity and dignity. Always open to hear what they believe and why, and have even had my own beliefs and opinions swayed simply from a shift of perspective granted by someone else. 


Thank you for addressing this matter.

seriously? someone argued that polar bears are actually penguins?

Oops sorry, not wearing my glasses. :) 

What you have here is a logical argument, based on factual ignorance. 

If they did exist in the same place. i am sure the bears would find the penguins a nice snack, just as killer whales do  

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Mr Walker
36 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, you think arguing and debate are a school teachers job.  Were you the debate teacher?  Lawyers not teachers are people who like to argue.  Doesn't recommend you as a teacher to say that.

See the smiley?

Indeed I have been in, and led,  organised debate teams from the time i was in school and president of our Interact group,  right through my teaching career  Indeed i did organise and run, both in school and inter school debating teams, both for groups like rotary and just as school competitions. I was brought up to  debate, think, and argue for my point of view, and being the oldest of four, i naturally had a lot to say as a child  :)  

But that wasn't really what i meant 

I hate ignorance, for the dangers it places  people and societies  in.

So my job was both to instruct, and to encourage debate, argument, etc., between ideas, beliefs, values concepts; allowing students to  learn both research and critical thinking skills,  as well as those of formal and informal debate 

And i was highly regarded, respected, and loved, by almost all my students and colleagues for over 40 years 
My students did well above average in pre university entrance exams and i won awards for my teaching 

For a decade iI was one of the teachers who moderated and assessed student work from across the state in their last year of high school; looking at the standards of learning and teaching in  the pre university entrance assignments   and exams, and making sure the y were consistent across the state, and of the correct standard   

I put that down to loving my work, and every child i ever taught . I would have gone in even if i wasn't paid.

Never had a day i didn't enjoy, or learn something, and only quit when it became obvious i wasn't well enough to do the job justice, and there were plenty of my own ex students to fill my shoes. In my  first 30 years of teaching i had taken less than 10 days off for sickness because it was fun, not a chore  Then after my first heart op I took off 6 months of sick leave and long service leave 

At the time I chose to retire, after teaching part time (varying from  3 to 4 days a week   for about 10 years ), the deputy principal, several senior teachers /coordinators, and half a dozen teachers at the school  (out of about 35 staff) were ex students of mine Ie about 30% of the total staff were ex students who had gone on to become teachers, and were  now  teaching at my school/their old school  Many others became teachers principals and experts in various boards in the education dept  which set curricula and exams

 

 I am saying all this because your view might be something unkind, which i cant change,  or you might have an honest belief. This should correct an honest belief  

 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Mr Walker
7 hours ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

My beliefs work for me, but they don't work for everyone.  I really don't care what people believe, as long as I am left in peace with my beliefs. 

As long as your beliefs(and thus your behaviours)  don't hurt anyone, including yourself, I am happy to leave you in peace

While i wouldn't like to see you hurt yourself, i wouldn't even try to prevent that unless your behaviour created a cost for others.

As an adult, you have right to behave as you please, and accept  the consequences of that behaviour for better or worse  

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Mr Walker
7 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

My question would be--why do some people feel so down about other people, who are secure and content in beliefs they don't share? Why is that such a problem? 

For myself, I have two concerns.

One i can accept, but the second i cannot. 

I hate to see people limit their human potentials by their beliefs and or their behaviors  This limits not just themselves, but how much the y can help others. And i believe a person's main secondary duty, after making sure they are ok themselves,. is to help others achieve the same, both individually and by strengthening their society  

Second, I hate to see people's beliefs and behaviours hurting others 

I can accept the first, without liking it, but i cant accept the second, and do nothing about it  

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Mr Walker
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I don't know really. My only "rule" is so long as it harms none, who cares.

Do  you  include yourself in that  none, or do you accept you have a right to harm yourself as long as you do not harm others in any way while harming yourself? 

To me, this is one of the defining questions of life. 

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Sherapy
16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

For myself, I have two concerns.

One i can accept, but the second i cannot. 

I hate to see people limit their human potentials by their beliefs and or their behaviors  This limits not just themselves, but how much the y can help others. And i believe a person's main secondary duty, after making sure they are ok themselves,. is to help others achieve the same, both individually and by strengthening their society  

Second, I hate to see people's beliefs and behaviours hurting others 

I can accept the first, without liking it, but i cant accept the second, and do nothing about it  

What are you even talking about? 
 

It sounds like you have made judgementalism  a crusade. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Habitat
41 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So, you think arguing and debate are a school teachers job.  Were you the debate teacher?  Lawyers, not teachers are people who like to argue.  Doesn't recommend you as a teacher to say that.

I wouldn't say that, the teacher that engages with the pupil more, explains things more fully, answers more queries, is apt to be the better teacher, from my recollections of school.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons
15 hours ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said:

Let's try to keep this one civil without the usual sniping and personal commentary.

This was meant for everyone

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

What are you even talking about? 
 

It sounds like you have made judgmentalism  a crusade. 

Every human has a duty of care to judge another person's  behaviour, and correct it where it does harm.

  However we have no abilty to judge the person themselves and so should do our best not to.  

I am sorry, but if my post makes no sense to you, I cannot explain it any better, and with respect to 9 moon's post, will refrain from arguing my pov, It is personal, and a product of my upbringing,  but I hold to it deeply. 

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Sherapy
22 hours ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

My beliefs work for me, but they don't work for everyone.  I really don't care what people believe, as long as I am left in peace with my beliefs. 

Green G., welcome back. :wub:

 

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Crikey
On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 5:55 AM, Hankenhunter said:

Holy moly, Ive just gotten a Christian to defend a different religeon. Mind blown.

Who? He's in a world o' hurt for that!

 

 

 

Edited by Crikey

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Cultivator of Fa
On 12/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Often on these boards, we see an attitude of superiority, from both the believers and the non believers in religion, spirituality, or deity.

I see a lot of signs of smug satisfaction on the part of believers, with a strong dose of sympathy thrown in. 

And on the part of non-believers, I also see an intellectual smugness, being that those folk are 'smarter than the primitives'. ( yes, I have been guilty of this myself, but I am trying to be better)

 

For the record, I don't believe in any of the religions that man has concocted. Nor do I embrace 'spirituality', because it sounds just like religion, without the structure. Kind of like saying something isn't 'red', it's 'cinnamon'. Or "It's not a 'used car', it's 'pre-owned'." No offense is intended to anyone, just my own POV on the subject that changing the nomenclature, doesn't change the subject matter.

In my life, I really don't care what anyone believes, as long as it doesn't harm or impinge on others. If a person wants to believe that they are better than others, because of their faith, or their skin colour, or who they identify as, or who they love, then that is their prerogative. AS LONG AS... they do not try to impose those views on others. 

 

So my question is.....

Does you belief, or lack thereof, make you feel one up on those who think differently?

I am not above any other human being just because i doing a cultivation from a different teaching then others do :) If i thought i was better then others, it would mean my ego was to great, and i would not have even understood the teaching that i cultivate. 

So the answer to your question is. No i am not seeing my self as better then others. 

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Sherapy
On 12/29/2019 at 5:36 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

I like this. It's like a much better version of Pascal's Wager, in a way.

Good point Jodie, good pull. 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
On 12/21/2019 at 4:07 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Often on these boards, we see an attitude of superiority, from both the believers and the non believers in religion, spirituality, or deity.

I see a lot of signs of SMUG satisfaction on the part of believers, with a strong dose of sympathy thrown in. 

And on the part of non-believers, I also see an intellectual smugness, being that those folk are 'smarter than the primitives'. ( yes, I have been guilty of this myself, but I am trying to be better)

 

For the record, I don't believe in any of the religions that man has concocted. Nor do I embrace 'spirituality', because it sounds just like religion, without the structure. Kind of like saying something isn't 'red', it's 'cinnamon'. Or "It's not a 'used car', it's 'pre-owned'." No offense is intended to anyone, just my own POV on the subject that changing the nomenclature, doesn't change the subject matter.

In my life, I really don't care what anyone believes, as long as it doesn't harm or impinge on others. If a person wants to believe that they are better than others, because of their faith, or their skin colour, or who they identify as, or who they love, then that is their prerogative. AS LONG AS... they do not try to impose those views on others. 

 

So my question is.....

Does you belief, or lack thereof, make you feel one up on those who think differently?

Definition of smug

1: highly self-satisfied
 
I don’t see myself as smug but I may come off that way to some.  However, religious identification I do not own up to as I have none.   But I do study them as I see [my thesis] that most the of the misery in the world is religiously based.  Closest identity — eclectic philosophy.  But not even that for I am not very handy with the philosophers — there are so many of them and so many of their works have been Lost — code for destroyed.  By whom? Most likely by Religious fanatics. So I take the leavings and fragments available and see what grows from their study.  Why do I do this?  It’s a unexplained mystery at this point in my life.  But it somewhat consuming.  I look at the world we live in and study the behaviors of humans, historical patterns.  Personal relationships have proven extraordinary useful.  They may be the most important of all learning. 
 
I Judge no one as I am no judge.  But I do challenge inconsistency and ignorance in the Abrahamic religions. The Bible is my tool.  I am more aquatinted with it than most Christians and Jews. 
 
One example:  I am often told by Christians that if I don’t hand myself over to Jesus so called I will burn for eternity; I don’t believe in an eternal hell created by some so called loving “god”.   But these people don’t even read the book that they proclaim to be the word of their god.  ‘Jesus’  states in the SCRIPTsure that he “came to save [rescue, from what exactly?] none but the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel”; the Jewish people, as he was considered the Jewish savior according to their book.  I’m not Jewish. And neither are they.  So yeah, I challenge them face to face. But not here.  Here — I plant seeds.  
 
Freedom from organized religion.  It’s a beautiful thing. 
 
“THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH.”  Wouldn’t it be grand if we all knew The Truth? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Festina

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