Kindness

[+Desertrat56]

20 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I'll never forget how a murderer, a man who shot his wife and few more persons close to her, broke down in tears at his trial. Because he was so moved with his own martyrdom he had to cry over himself. My brain stops a little each time I remember that. So eerily shameless. So impossibly inhuman. So honestly unaware of anyone else but themselves.

I totally understand how you feel about that.  I have seen my dad and my ex-husband do that.  It is very disturbing and proof that you are not the one who is "crazy" or wrong.

[+Desertrat56]

20 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

find the 'explanation' for kindness as an ultimate form of selfishness so hilariously psychopath I even wonder how could stuff like that be real until I remember the crying psycho murderer. Only on his example I finally understood how differently they perceive the reality. They honestly believe we're all must be looking for a gain of some kind, because only selfish gain can motivate them, so it must be truth for everyone else. 

Yes, when your spouse accuses you of cheating and you know you have not, they are the ones cheating.  Or what ever you are accused of that is so unbelievably unreal, you know they are the ones doing it.  It is really easy when you understand how to spot someone who has these tendancies that are called psychopathic or sociopathic, addicts or narcissistic.  (I know all of those have different definitions, but they really are linked in behavior and interactions with others).

[+Desertrat56]

20 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

And then I find out there are professionals out there debunking sanity like they're afraid there will be a shortage of *******s if they don't prove psychopathy is the new normal  

  I have said this before and probably insulted someone or given the a choice to feel offended but everyone I have ever known (many) that got a bachelors degree in pschology was concerned about their sanity or insane and not concerned about it but wanted better tools to manipulate people.  I knew a PHD behavioral pschologist who was in charge of research at a university and he was actually more insane than my dad.  I have a friend who has a masters in psychology and could not keep a counseling job because he could not get along with any of his coworkers.  He finally got a boss who insisted that everyone who worked for him had to submit to 6 weeks of cognitive behavioral therapy before they could start work.  It did wonders for him.  I was amazed, and he realized after that he would rather have a different kind of job.  All of us have things that trigger us into momentary insanity (rage, self depracation, depression etc), but we snap out of it, I think that is part of being human in our current society, but when someone can't ever see their behavior as a problem, always blame everyone else they are insane as far as I am concerned.

[LightAngel]

 

 

Since this is a family forum. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

Kindness is a wonderful trait but being selfish isn't, and there is no way to be kind and selfish at the same time. No form of selfishness is an acceptable tenant, it is however a sign of ego.

Quote

Desires can be either negative or positive. If I desire to acquire something for myself--let's say I desire good health when I am ill, or a bowl of rice when I am hungry--such a desire is perfectly justified. The same applies to selfishness, which can be either negative or positive.

In most cases, asserting oneself only leads to disappointment, or to conflict with other egos that feel as exclusively about their existence as we do about our own. This is especially true when a strongly developed ego indulges in capricious or demanding behavior. The illusion of having a permanent self is a secret danger that stalks us all: "I want this," "I want that." It can even lead us to kill. Excessive selfishness leads to uncontrollable perversions, which always end badly. But on the other hand, a firm confident sense of self can be a very positive element.

Without a strong sense of self, that is, of one's skills, potential, and convictions, nobody can take on significant responsibilities. Responsibility requires true self-confidence. How could a mother without hands save her child from the river? 

http://viewonbuddhism.org/dharma-quotes-quotations-buddhist/selfish-egoism-self-centered.htm

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Still Waters
Source link added

[Helen of Annoy]

11 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

 

Since this is a family forum. 

 I love it. 

It's not for young children only, it colours us, old children too    

[LightAngel]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 I love it. 

It's not for young children only, it colours us, old children too    

 

Indeed! 

 

 

[LightAngel]

 

 

 

[Helen of Annoy]

11 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

 

 

They're not reading this, but still... thank you, kind people, thank you so much!

And thank you LightAngel for making me cry   

[Karl05301]

I truly believe people have a huge capacity for greatness if something in life comes along to draw it out of them. I have witnessed it. People that I would have written off as little more than low life scum. In a time of extreme need, put their lives on the line to save someone when no one else was there. Then in a short time these same people laps back into a sullen black hole of antisocial behavior. Scratching and biting at anyone  who gives them credit for bravery.

I have a particular niche for certain skills which I developed over the years. So I began teaching aspects of it for a few years. 2 of my students were psychiatrists working with violence prone people. So I had a chance to speak at great length with them about human behaviors in given circumstances. All I could say afterwards was WOW! It changed my perspective on a lot of things.

To sum it all up for me. Because of short comings I have when it comes to social interaction. To me, dealing with Joe public is like walking through a mine field with a patch over one eye and only a toothpick to probe the ground with. So most of my life I have avoided people. I have my wife and my dog, so I’m all set.

[LightAngel]

19 hours ago, Karl05301 said:

I truly believe people have a huge capacity for greatness

 

I feel everybody has the capacity for greatness! (also all animals)

But what is greatness?! -  for me, it's an individual thing because it will be different from person to person! 

If you can make your life work in a way that you love, then you are great because you are you, and you are alive and kicking!

Money, etc... have very little to do with the truth/greatness.

I can't express it more simple than this. 

 

[Habitat]

4 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

 

I feel everybody has the capacity for greatness! (also all animals)

But what is greatness?! -  for me, it's an individual thing because it will be different from person to person! 

If you can make your life work in a way that you love, then you are great because you are you, and you are alive and kicking!

Money, etc... have very little to do with the truth/greatness.

I can't express it more simple than this. 

 

You will love this quote …….

Not the kind of thing we hear from what passes for "statesmen" today, Disraeli of course being one of the great Prime Ministers of Victorian England.

[Habitat]

And this is a great  poetic quote about kindness, and written by a young man who died very early.

[LightAngel]

3 hours ago, Habitat said:

You will love this quote …….

 

 

 

That's what I always said even before I read this quote! 

 

 

[Crikey]

Topic:kindness

-----------------------

Did I do right in this true story?-

A few years ago I was helping at a charity shop and a lady customer said to me with a smile- "I've noticed you're very good chatting with customers, I'm with the Samaritans and wonder if you'd like to join us?"

So I said- "Yes thanks, I'd be glad to help anybody who phones up who's lonely or depressed or whatever and maybe befriend them and invite them out for a coffee"

"Oh no no no" she replied, "we simply sit and listen to them on the phone, we don't get personally involved"

I replied with- "In that case I'm sorry because I wouldn't be able to stop myself getting personally involved", and it all fell through.

So was I being unkind in not joining the Samaritans?

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Crikey

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Topic:kindness

-----------------------

Did I do right in this true story?-

A few years ago I was helping at a charity shop and a lady customer said to me with a smile- "I've noticed you're very good chatting with customers, I'm with the Samaritans and wonder if you'd like to join us?"

So I said- "Yes thanks, I'd be glad to help anybody who phones up who's lonely or depressed or whatever and maybe befriend them and invite them out for a coffee"

"Oh no no no" she replied, "we simply sit and listen to them on the phone, we don't get personally involved"

I replied with- "In that case I'm sorry because I wouldn't be able to stop myself getting personally involved", and it all fell through.

So was I being unkind in not joining the Samaritans?

 

You were being true to yourself.  That is being kind when someone asks you to do something that does not feel right for you, no judgement on the other, just that you know you are unable to do it as they ask.

[LightAngel]

20 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

You were being true to yourself.  That is being kind when someone asks you to do something that does not feel right for you, no judgement on the other, just that you know you are unable to do it as they ask.

 

I both agree and disagree with this.

Yes, it's important to be true, but I think kindness is also sometimes to help without thinking about yourself and how you want things to be.

For example, If I'm very tired, I might feel I don't have the energy to help an old lady cross the street - but I will probably help her anyway. 

So things aren't always black and white.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, LightAngel said:

 

I both agree and disagree with this.

Yes, it's important to be true, but I think kindness is also sometimes to help without thinking about yourself and how you want things to be.

For example, If I'm very tired, I might feel I don't have the energy to help an old lady cross the street - but I will probably help her anyway. 

So things aren't always black and white.

I was referring to morals.  If someone asked you to do something you consider immoral, illegal or causes you to give something you need for yourself or your family, do you do it because you will put them first?  No, you will say no, or should say no and be true to what you think is right.  As for your example, that is kindness, helping someone across the street that needs help, but on the whole of it, what did it cost you besides a few minutes of your time and a small amount of expended energy.  It is not rational to think that you should always put yourself first any more than it it rational to think you should always be put first. You are right, nothing is black and white, it is all different shades of grey.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Desertrat56

[LightAngel]

On 1/21/2020 at 3:37 PM, Desertrat56 said:

 You are right, nothing is black and white, it is all different shades of grey.

Indeed.

And therefore I have a question for you.

When was the last time you didn't do what you thought you should have done according to what you think would be the moral thing to do?!

[+Desertrat56]

7 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Indeed.

And therefore I have a question for you.

When was the last time you didn't do what you thought you should have done according to what you think would be the moral thing to do?!

I can't think of a time recently.  In the past I have done things for someone that had no benefit to me or my family, but benefited them and later caused problems for me and my family, even being involved in a court case that had nothing to do with me, just my name on a piece of paper.  Maybe that was the last time of real immorality as I allowed my name to be used for a trust that was essentially used to hide money.  The neighbors did not have enough people to fill all the trustees and they paid me to sign a lot of documents as a trustee.  I needed the money at the time, but it was not really worth the whole thing and it was not legal.  But there are things people want others to do that go against the grain of conscience, usually some type of lie, or loaning money that won't be repaid, or even going to a bar so the person won't be "alone" when you don't even drink and hate bars.  I know everyone has their own list of things.  It could be as benign as loaning someone your lawn mower when you don't want to, or letting your kids go with someone you don't trust, etc.  That is what I am talking about when I say it is kinder to say No, with no explanation, than to go along with something you don't feel is right or you don't want to do.

[Crikey]

Another dilemma that's I've often been faced with in the past is when I've been unemployed and the Jobcentre wanted me to apply for jobs but I've refused on moral grounds, and had my dole partially reduced for a while ("sanctioned") as punishment.

For example they sent me to apply at a big grocer's, but I took one look at the cigarettes and porn mags and thought "I'm not handling that stuff", and walked back out without applying.

What would UM members have done?

[Helen of Annoy]

4 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Another dilemma that's I've often been faced with in the past is when I've been unemployed and the Jobcentre wanted me to apply for jobs but I've refused on moral grounds, and had my dole partially reduced for a while ("sanctioned") as punishment.

For example they sent me to apply at a big grocer's, but I took one look at the cigarettes and porn mags and thought "I'm not handling that stuff", and walked back out without applying.

What would UM members have done?

Just to go back at Samaritans question: I don't think you were unkind. You were realistic and honest. It's more than good to stay aware what we can do and in what way we can do something.

In that particular situation, you'd probably create some confusion since they're doing it their way and you've got yours. 

 

Now, the jobs... if someone was selling cat meat, for example, or obviously cheating customers, or anything else I personally have insurmountable issues with, there's no money in this world that could make me do it.

I'd do the same you did (only it's not cigarettes and porn that I've got issues with, but it's absolutely understandable these are unacceptable for someone).  

  

[+Desertrat56]

7 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Another dilemma that's I've often been faced with in the past is when I've been unemployed and the Jobcentre wanted me to apply for jobs but I've refused on moral grounds, and had my dole partially reduced for a while ("sanctioned") as punishment.

For example they sent me to apply at a big grocer's, but I took one look at the cigarettes and porn mags and thought "I'm not handling that stuff", and walked back out without applying.

What would UM members have done?

My opinion is that some of us would have taken the job because handling those things is not the same as using them, and it is a job, and to each his own.  But there are those on the forum, I think, that would agree with your decision.  You do have to be true to yourself and if it would cause you stress to handle those items for your job then you do what you feel is right. 

[LightAngel]

On 1/22/2020 at 6:00 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

 

In that particular situation

 

 

Let's imagine a particular situation. 

You see a human hitting a dog on the street.

You are very tired that day, so you feel weak, but you want to help the dog because you love dogs - and you don't like abusive humans!

You want to react, but your tummy hurt so much that you can hardly breathe - and therefore, you can't protect the dog like you normally would!

That happened to me once, and it took me weeks to get over the guilt. 

Did something similar happen to you?

 

 

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

You see a human hitting a dog on the street.

If you're talking hit as in ran over then you've got two choices. You either try to save the dog which might end up crippled, not adopted and put down. Second option you bring mercy upon it and kill the dog in order to end it's suffering. What do you choose?