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LightAngel

Kindness

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XenoFish

What are you wanting to discuss? 

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RabidMongoose
3 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Nobody should allow anybody to use or abuse them - but there are healthy and unhealthy ways to deal with mentally unstable people.

The healthiest way of dealing with mentally unstable people is to, first of all, maintain the status of your own wellbeing - both during the encounter as well as the process of interacting with the individual.

Sometimes, dealing with such a person can even lead to personal growth: there is much we can learn sometimes, both about the afflictions that other people suffer from as well as about ourselves. However, helping another person (should help be the desired course of action) should never come at any significant cost to our own mental wellbeing.  

Much of this is a matter of intelligence, in terms of realizing when it is that kindness fails - there is no point in continuing to be kind to a person who continues to try to use us or abuse us - this is when we need have the prudence and the strength to know when the time has come for us to walk away. 

Of course, in the most extreme examples where we are literally being attacked - then self-defense is the only course of action available with the amount of violence that is proportionally required in order to successfully defend ourselves. 

Many people have trouble with defending themselves at the right time and in the right way. I would ascribe this to empathy or sympathy that in some cases may be misplaced. But again, there is nothing wrong with being empathic or sympathetic, I believe that both of these are among the highest virtues that humans can possess, still, it is important to recognize that we may not like having to sometimes be crude towards another person who can't help themselves - but we need to do it in order to protect ourselves.

If you look at the those who unstable people target then they dont target other unstable people.

They attack the decent people who have things going for them. Even worse, they can sense these targets within a few seconds of them entering the room by the vibes they give off. They radiate off positivity, confidence, happiness, and light.

We live in a culture which tells us to promote and advertise our decent qualities but when we fall for it we make ourselves targets. The trick is to hide what we really are. To put on a mask of negativity, low self-esteem, unhappiness, and darkness, to evade detection in the first place. Lets divide people into three groups:

Sub-Humans: The criminal and deranged element of society which are disasters. They are on a downwards path in life and have a tendency to suck other people into the abyss with them. Most avoid them because of this and because they find it quite stressful being around such people. They target decent people for destruction out of hate and jealousy. If they can function well enough to hold down a job then they hide what they are from people in authority by putting on a mask. They target regular people too, but not to the same degree of hate and resentment.

Regular Humans: They avoid sub-humans and they avoid superior-humans. With the former its because they dont want sucking down into the abyss, with the latter its because they make them feel bad about themselves.

Superior-Humans: The genuine talent in society. The attractive, the intelligent, the athletic, the gifted, the successful, the rich, the popular, the famous, etc. In order for them to function properly in society then they too have to hide what they really are from other people. Otherwise the sub-humans try to destroy them and the regular humans avoid them.

Boris Johnson messes up his hair and acts the clown. Trump acts like an incompetent inept moron. Theresa May acted like a boring grey robot. They are all strategies to prevent themselves by targeted by sub-humans and to prevent regular people from avoiding them. Wearing what we really are on our sleeves is a poor life strategy.

We need to consider who we are around, essentially who our audience is, before we display our true selves. It might not be right, but thats human nature.

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LightAngel

Excuse me, but I prefer to be myself and live a life of actions which manifest themselves as a reflection of who I am. :)

I have no intention to live a life of pretense, neither for the purpose of alleviating other people's insecurities nor shielding myself from the same.

In my post, I proposed a mode of action, not subterfuge.

 

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openozy
5 hours ago, LightAngel said:

but there are healthy and unhealthy ways to deal with mentally unstable people.

Having lived with one for 9 years you have to have your wits about you,understanding them maybe a sign of your own instability.

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LightAngel
13 minutes ago, openozy said:

Having lived with one for 9 years you have to have your wits about you,understanding them maybe a sign of your own instability.

 

How do you handle it? 

 

 

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Hawken

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, openozy said:

I like how you label people when we are all a combination of these,get off your high horse.

Ditto, I feel that labeling people sub-human and superior human never leads to good things. 

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Ditto, I feel that labeling people sub-human and superior human never leads to good things. 

That's rabid for you. Seems to have an elitist attitude. 

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Nobody should allow anybody to use or abuse them - but there are healthy and unhealthy ways to deal with mentally unstable people.

The healthiest way of dealing with mentally unstable people is to, first of all, maintain the status of your own wellbeing - both during the encounter as well as the process of interacting with the individual.

Sometimes, dealing with such a person can even lead to personal growth: there is much we can learn sometimes, both about the afflictions that other people suffer from as well as about ourselves. However, helping another person (should help be the desired course of action) should never come at any significant cost to our own mental wellbeing.  

Much of this is a matter of intelligence, in terms of realizing when it is that kindness fails - there is no point in continuing to be kind to a person who continues to try to use us or abuse us - this is when we need have the prudence and the strength to know when the time has come for us to walk away. 

Of course, in the most extreme examples where we are literally being attacked - then self-defense is the only course of action available with the amount of violence that is proportionally required in order to successfully defend ourselves. 

Many people have trouble with defending themselves at the right time and in the right way. I would ascribe this to empathy or sympathy that in some cases may be misplaced. But again, there is nothing wrong with being empathic or sympathetic, I believe that both of these are among the highest virtues that humans can possess, still, it is important to recognize that we may not like having to sometimes be crude towards another person who can't help themselves - but we need to do it in order to protect ourselves.

 

 

 

 

It's very difficult to deal with the mentally unstable and it's especially heart breaking when they are related to you. The biggest problem I have discovered when addressing this problem, is that the mentally ill do not know they are ill, in their perception there is something wrong with those around them. The most difficult thing you must accomplish when dealing with someone like this is gaining their trust.

If you are unable to gain their trust, kindness, empathy, and caring doesn't matter. Because they will not respond in a positive manner to you. I agree that you must protect yourself during this process, and not allow yourself to be physically or mentally abused. However, the manner in which you choose to do this. will make all the difference in the world concerning building trust with a mentally ill person. 

You can maintain a physical boundary, and explain this to them or you can choose to have them subdued or locked up. If you draw a physical boundary and explain to them that this boundary should never be crossed unless they are invited to do so you can accomplish much using this to build trust. If you choose to have a mentally ill person subdued or locked up you will achieve nothing.

What I am saying is simple you must take risks, this is how you build trust not only with the mentally ill but with all relationships in your life. If you are unwilling to do this you should not be dealing with the mentally ill in the first place. It is simply impossible to build trust with someone who is subdued or locked up. Without trust kindness, empathy, caring will never allow you to break through the barrier that have enclosed a  ill persons mind. So if you are unwilling to take some rusk, leave the job to someone who is strong enough both mentally and physically to achieve the goals that must be met for the bennifit of the ill person.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, openozy said:

Having lived with one for 9 years you have to have your wits about you,understanding them maybe a sign of your own instability.

Understanding them to me is important so long as you don't think this puts you in control of the situation. Building trust is the most important factor in a relationship with someone who is mentally ill. Once this is accomplished you can begin to set boundaries with that person. while I am certain you understand that without taking risks you can never build a bond with trust.

openozy, I had a brother who was mentally ill and homeless. I brought him to my home and tried to help him with his problems. I learned that trust under these unique situations was the first goal in helping a mentally ill person. I was unsuccessful building trust with my sibling, so after a year I had to let him go. In Dec 2017, he walked out in front of a car in Iowa and was killed. While I could blame myself for my failure and his death, I choose not to do so. I do this because I am confident that I did everything I could to help him, and I can find personal peace from this.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
5 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

If you look at the those who unstable people target then they dont target other unstable people.

They attack the decent people who have things going for them. Even worse, they can sense these targets within a few seconds of them entering the room by the vibes they give off. They radiate off positivity, confidence, happiness, and light.

We live in a culture which tells us to promote and advertise our decent qualities but when we fall for it we make ourselves targets. The trick is to hide what we really are. To put on a mask of negativity, low self-esteem, unhappiness, and darkness, to evade detection in the first place. Lets divide people into three groups:

Sub-Humans: The criminal and deranged element of society which are disasters. They are on a downwards path in life and have a tendency to suck other people into the abyss with them. Most avoid them because of this and because they find it quite stressful being around such people. They target decent people for destruction out of hate and jealousy. If they can function well enough to hold down a job then they hide what they are from people in authority by putting on a mask. They target regular people too, but not to the same degree of hate and resentment.

Regular Humans: They avoid sub-humans and they avoid superior-humans. With the former its because they dont want sucking down into the abyss, with the latter its because they make them feel bad about themselves.

Superior-Humans: The genuine talent in society. The attractive, the intelligent, the athletic, the gifted, the successful, the rich, the popular, the famous, etc. In order for them to function properly in society then they too have to hide what they really are from other people. Otherwise the sub-humans try to destroy them and the regular humans avoid them.

Boris Johnson messes up his hair and acts the clown. Trump acts like an incompetent inept moron. Theresa May acted like a boring grey robot. They are all strategies to prevent themselves by targeted by sub-humans and to prevent regular people from avoiding them. Wearing what we really are on our sleeves is a poor life strategy.

We need to consider who we are around, essentially who our audience is, before we display our true selves. It might not be right, but thats human nature.

Dude you sick, you should go see a doctor.

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openozy
8 hours ago, LightAngel said:

 

How do you handle it? 

 

 

With great difficulty and suffering until I removed myself from the situation.

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openozy
5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Understanding them to me is important so long as you don't think this puts you in control of the situation. Building trust is the most important factor in a relationship with someone who is mentally ill. Once this is accomplished you can begin to set boundaries with that person. while I am certain you understand that without taking risks you can never build a bond with trust.

openozy, I had a brother who was mentally ill and homeless. I brought him to my home and tried to help him with his problems. I learned that trust under these unique situations was the first goal in helping a mentally ill person. I was unsuccessful building trust with my sibling, so after a year I had to let him go. In Dec 2017, he walked out in front of a car in Iowa and was killed. While I could blame myself for my failure and his death, I choose not to do so. I do this because I am confident that I did everything I could to help him, and I can find personal peace from this.

Peace

I'm sorry for your loss ML,I know your bro has finally found peace now as has mine.The person I was referring to was a partner and while it would be classed as a mental disorder,I'd call it deeply evil as they were manipulative and bent on destroying those around them,including our three kids.

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Manwon Lender
2 minutes ago, openozy said:

I'm sorry for your loss ML,I know your bro has finally found peace now as has mine.The person I was referring to was a partner and while it would be classed as a mental disorder,I'd call it deeply evil as they were manipulative and bent on destroying those around them,including our three kids.

Thank you, and I also sorry for your experience with someone with a mental disorder. Like I said in my post these problems can certainly be insurmountable. I mean It was impossible to gain the trust that was needed to help my bother. He wasn't what I would call evil, but he certainly very manipulative. He wasn't bent on destruction of those around him, he was however very self destructive. In your case it appears that she was also very self destructive, and some people who are this way do try to take those they truly love with them down the vortex of self destruction. 

They always do it to the ones they love, because in their sick minds they do not want to loss those they love. So they attempt to  take them and only them with them along fir the ride.

Sorry partner, may you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

peace

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LightAngel

I hope you guys had a good support system when you went through this - also afterward to deal with the pain, etc.

We all need help sometimes - no matter how strong we are. :)

 

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openozy
44 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

I hope you guys had a good support system when you went through this - also afterward to deal with the pain, etc.

We all need help sometimes - no matter how strong we are. :)

 

No,just had to get on with it and raise my three kids by myself,as well as dealing with the ex who still is doing damage to the kids lives 20 years later.I'm a pretty tough customer but I couldn't do it again.

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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, openozy said:

No,just had to get on with it and raise my three kids by myself,as well as dealing with the ex who still is doing damage to the kids lives 20 years later.I'm a pretty tough customer but I couldn't do it again.

I am with you brother, I certainly wouldn't want to ever deal with it again, but what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.

Peace.

 

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Alchopwn
22 hours ago, openozy said:

Having lived with one for 9 years you have to have your wits about you,understanding them maybe a sign of your own instability.

It sounds like a long  overdue job for a psychologist.

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Habitat
39 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

It sounds like a long  overdue job for a psychologist.

The first 25 years are the worst, apparently.

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RabidMongoose
23 hours ago, LightAngel said:

Excuse me, but I prefer to be myself and live a life of actions which manifest themselves as a reflection of who I am. :)

I have no intention to live a life of pretense, neither for the purpose of alleviating other people's insecurities nor shielding myself from the same.

In my post, I proposed a mode of action, not subterfuge.

 

I proposed a position of pragmatism rather than idealism.

Anybody with anything going for them has to hide it or take it on the chin when they start attracting people that want to bring them down. It is of course your choice if you live openly as your genuine self or if you hide it. You will no doubt do what you think is best for you.

But for those who attract a lot of negative attention and struggle to deal with it I would recommend becoming more politically minded than what they current are. People are not perfect, so taking an idealistic approach to dealing with them doesnt work. We have to take into consideration how people actually are and that means managing their attitude towards better. We do that by hiding our strengths from them, and if we have a strength we cannot hide we lower their opinion of us in other ways.

That doesnt mean we shouldn't do and go for whatever we want in our lives, just that we should keep our cards close to our chests. Otherwise other people have at nasty habit of ruining it for us.

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RabidMongoose
14 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Thank you, and I also sorry for your experience with someone with a mental disorder. Like I said in my post these problems can certainly be insurmountable. I mean It was impossible to gain the trust that was needed to help my bother. He wasn't what I would call evil, but he certainly very manipulative. He wasn't bent on destruction of those around him, he was however very self destructive. In your case it appears that she was also very self destructive, and some people who are this way do try to take those they truly love with them down the vortex of self destruction. 

They always do it to the ones they love, because in their sick minds they do not want to loss those they love. So they attempt to  take them and only them with them along fir the ride.

Sorry partner, may you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

peace

Firstly, you have my sympathies.

Your brother must be quite difficult and stressful to be around. Whether you realise it or not he is gaining something positive from his behaviour (its a coping strategy) but without more information I cannot tell what it is. Therefore I will give a general rundown.

Expectations: If you engage in some self-reflection you will realise you have expectations over how other people should treat you. If they meet those expectations you like them, if they violate those expectations you resent them.

Sadism: Go find someone you resent and would feel justified in treating poorly. Do it. Afterwards notice that the sadistic kick which you got made you feel good.

Lesson one is that difficult people have had their expectations violated by their family members and/or their community. They feel entitled to treat others poorly because of the resentment that they feel, and they do it. With the sadistic kick it gives them they enjoy it.

Social Hierarchies: Evolution has shaped our brains so that our position in social hierarchies significantly impacts the levels of serotonin in our brains. Higher levels mean the person is more likely to be happy, positive, confident, altruistic, and cooperative. Lower levels (seen with people that have grown up in abusive or deprived environments) means a person is more likely to be depressed, anxious, negative, insecure, selfish, and aggressive towards other people.

Social Dominance: Those with low levels of serotonin have an evolved response which kicks in to raise their social standing. This is where the aggression towards other people comes from. This type of difficult person bullies, coerces, and tries to control, everyone around them. Basically they try to establish their social dominance over other people to raise their serotonin levels so that the feel good about themselves. Social dominance strategies are also seen in people that have problems going on with the serotonin receptors in their brains like bi-polar people.

Lesson two is that difficult people with low serotonin levels, or a problem with their serotonin receptors, adopt social dominance strategies at the expense of everyone else where they use aggression to try and establish themselves over other people. This purpose being to make themselves feel better.

Identity: Young children do not know themselves, so they seek information about who they are from their parents and other people they come into contact with. If the information given to them is negative, if they child takes it onboard, it makes them feel ashamed.

Narcissism: Arises when a person never moved on from what made them feel ashamed about themselves. They are trapped in an obsessive with a negative identity which causes them distress. The only way to deal with that distress is denial and to be perfect in every single way possible. When encountering other people who make the narcissist realise they arent perfect, they get targeted for destruction.

Lesson three is that narcissists need to believe they are perfect in everyway imaginable or their attention is refocused on the trauma that made them feel ashamed to be who they are. Therefore they seek to reduce down other people by destroying them. And the narcissist engages in delusion thought processes afterwards to leave themselves convinced of their own moral perfection. This means the narcissist denies everything, makes out that the target deserved it, or finds another way of shifting blame.

And there you have the main aspects of the dark triad. Someone who has problems with their serotonin levels and/or brain receptors. Someone who hates the world, who thinks they are entitled to treat others poorly, and does so to gain a sadistic kick which they enjoy. Someone who needs to be perfect in everyway possible and who destroys others who make them realise they arent perfect. Someone who needs to be in charge and establish their social dominance over others.

Finally someone who no matter what they do engages in self-delusion to leave themselves morally perfect. Done by denying it happening, making it the victims fault, claiming their is a conspiracy against them or that they were set up, or a variety of other delusional thinking strategies. Its why psychopaths cannot be fixed, because in their minds they have done nothing wrong to begin with.

Helping them: They are very hard to treat because they are so messed up. Its best to avoid them or get rid of them out of your life. If they are lacking the narcissism then they get easier to fix because they have honest self-reflection remaining intact.

For just the low serotonin levels or incorrectly working serotonin receptors that can be fixed with anti-depressants. They take a few months to alter the person brain. For sadists who have had their expectations violating its about getting through to them that most people are like those who they grew up around. Its about getting them to see that taking sadistic revenge against people who dont deserve actually harms themselves in life by damaging all their relationships.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Helen of Annoy

It seems like perfect time to note that excessive verbosity is not just extremely tiresome trait, but it's also a clear warning sign of mental instability. 

I'm not talking about chattiness, that's not always pleasant, but it's still normal. But if a person is not even listening to others and keeps delivering endless tirades, that are increasingly inappropriate and/or disconnected, it's time for self-protection to kick in.

It's an easy thing to do in a forum, I just stop reading offensively egocentric and/or bizarre posts.

Real life is more complicated, of course, not just because it's considered impolite to simply ignore people, but also because some unstable people might react aggressively if you refuse them. 

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Manwon Lender
55 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It seems like perfect time to note that excessive verbosity is not just extremely tiresome trait, but it's also a clear warning sign of mental instability. 

I'm not talking about chattiness, that's not always pleasant, but it's still normal. But if a person is not even listening to others and keeps delivering endless tirades, that are increasingly inappropriate and/or disconnected, it's time for self-protection to kick in.

It's an easy thing to do in a forum, I just stop reading offensively egocentric and/or bizarre posts.

Real life is more complicated, of course, not just because it's considered impolite to simply ignore people, but also because some unstable people might react aggressively if you refuse them. 

Nah, I think it can help him to vent his frustrations in the manner he doing here. I kinda enjoy having him around, it's kinda like a box of Chocolates you never know what you going to get. But his post above is a little strange, I was conversing with opanzy about our experiences with mentally ill family members, I did mention I have PTSD. But I really don't t know where the comments in his post are coming from.

As far people acting aggressive on chat forums I find it very amusing. Key board warriors are comical not threatening to me, sometimes you want to meet them face to face but you also know that will never happen because those same people would never speak in person in the manner they do online. 

Take care and Merry Christmas and have a wonderful new year.

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