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LightAngel

Kindness

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joc
8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, my truth is my truth, based upon how I experience the world, which is a direct result of how I see life.

My experience is my truth.

Your experience is your truth.

And neither of us can say the other is wrong.

Only, any difference in how we perceive this world in the first place, will filter down to feelings and emotions, eg, how we actually experience life.

 

No, I actually can say that your 'truth' is not the actual truth.  It is your perception of the truth...but it isn't the truth.  How we Actually experience life is completely irrelevant as to the actual truth.  We call it...the laws of physics.  Feeling, schmeeling...

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LightAngel
17 hours ago, The Wistman said:

Love is separate from desire.  By conflating the two, one reveals one's own wounds and ignorance of love's quality.  Those wounds are an obstacle to an apprehension of love. 

If love (not desire and its attendant passionate emotions) has eluded you, practice compassion and empathy.  Then it will come for you.

If you resist practicing compassion and empathy, then you are thereby embracing your own flatness, or darkness, and will remain ignorant about love.

Cynicism used as a justification for darkness and negativity has a strong element of choice.  It is the path of the vacuum, the abnegation of the actual world where love is inherent in the very isness of things and our ability to sense and know them, with only a brief bit of time available to realize it.  If that doesn't satisfy your sense of logic and seems childish, then you have not known love and are ignorant of its quality.  It's somewhat like saying 'I don't like dancing,' though you've never done it.

Kindness, empathy, and compassion are the tools that will lead anybody to real love, not to the things or experiences made of desire.  Love is the foundation of our personal depth and joy in life, even under trying circumstances.

I lived in NYC during the AIDS crisis.  Many of my friends died, horribly.  Yet I saw and knew love in that milieu, in the hospitals and among friends.  There was nothing to gain for anybody, no satisfaction to be felt.  Yet many people did not run from it -- did not shut their minds and hearts -- out of compassion, and love.

 

edit: spelling error

 

Thank you so much for this post. ;)

I don't have anything to add because I feel you hit the nail on the head! :tu:

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LightAngel
22 hours ago, Sherapy said:

My experience is that love between two people can be a journey into unconditional.. :wub:

Yup.

I have that kind of love with my husband. :wub:

But I can also have it with other creatures, and it's a wonderful way of living - it brings joy and laughter even in tough times.

I have so much to say here, I just don't have any time right now. ;)

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Crazy Horse
12 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

*raises tentacle* That's my truth too. 

It's actually relatively common, that people become lovers, then it evolves into friendship and then that friendship evolves into a sort of alliance that literally won't ever break. Once you see the near-unconditional love returned in the same manner it creates trust and affection that are far, far beyond calculations or mere bodily functions. Now it is unconditional.  

I think it's how it should work, only it sometimes doesn't. Probably because people are put off with the getting to know each other period. And probably because people are raised lately to seek only short-term gain for themselves, screw everything and everyone. And then they wonder why they're treated by the screw you principle themselves.  

I agree with your comments.

But, even when a relationship goes pear-shaped, or worse, then that is that persons truth.

It doesn't matter what you are experiencing per se, its the actual experience that matters, that is the truth, for you.

Two people may brake-up, one may be happy, the other may be heart-broken. Both are true.

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Crazy Horse
4 hours ago, joc said:

No, I actually can say that your 'truth' is not the actual truth.  It is your perception of the truth...but it isn't the truth.  How we Actually experience life is completely irrelevant as to the actual truth.  We call it...the laws of physics.  Feeling, schmeeling...

But it is more than just a perception, it is an experience. 

My perception is not of the truth, but of life, and it is this that gives me the experience.

Can you see the difference?

Facts, figures, weights and measures and empirical objectifiable evidence are facts, and are true. But so is our actual experience of any given situation, is our truth. If I am laughing and am happy, then you cannot say I am sad or angry. That's undeniably true.

And btw, "Feelings, schmeeling…" Do you honestly believe folks enjoy feeling bad, hateful, jealous, bitter and stressed? Or do you agree that most folks would prefer to feel joy and happiness? Only a fool would dismiss our human feelings and the human experiences they give us.

 

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Helen of Annoy
3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I agree with your comments.

But, even when a relationship goes pear-shaped, or worse, then that is that persons truth.

It doesn't matter what you are experiencing per se, its the actual experience that matters, that is the truth, for you.

Two people may brake-up, one may be happy, the other may be heart-broken. Both are true.

Yes. 

Which is why only people who want to synchronize their truths can live happily ever after. Not only people whose alliances started as romantic involvement, it's also like that with friendships and family. 

When you deeply love someone you won't just write their truth off, you'll look into it until you see why it's the truth for that person and from that point on you two can compare own reasons and see what could be your common truth, or agree on the difference and make space for it.  

That ability to make space for a difference and leave it to exist as different as it is, is one of the signs of true love - it shows that you value the other as much as you do value yourself. You've got no urge to force your truth on the other. But you do have a strong desire to understand the other. But it works only if you really think like that, faking it only generates frustration. 

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joc
7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But it is more than just a perception, it is an experience. 

My perception is not of the truth, but of life, and it is this that gives me the experience.

Can you see the difference?

Facts, figures, weights and measures and empirical objectifiable evidence are facts, and are true. But so is our actual experience of any given situation, is our truth. If I am laughing and am happy, then you cannot say I am sad or angry. That's undeniably true.

And btw, "Feelings, schmeeling…" Do you honestly believe folks enjoy feeling bad, hateful, jealous, bitter and stressed? Or do you agree that most folks would prefer to feel joy and happiness? Only a fool would dismiss our human feelings and the human experiences they give us.

 

Experience...Is that like watching the walls breath in and out and the light poles dripping onto the pavement as the buildings all twist together at the tops?

Or is that like getting thrown off of a horse into a pipe fence?   What is experience really?  Things we have experienced?  The light poles did NOT drip onto the pavement.  The pipe fence did hurt like hell.  See the difference?  Is there one?

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Crazy Horse
37 minutes ago, joc said:

Experience...Is that like watching the walls breath in and out and the light poles dripping onto the pavement as the buildings all twist together at the tops?

Or is that like getting thrown off of a horse into a pipe fence?   What is experience really?  Things we have experienced?  The light poles did NOT drip onto the pavement.  The pipe fence did hurt like hell.  See the difference?  Is there one?

Experience...Is that like watching the walls breath in and out and the light poles dripping onto the pavement as the buildings all twist together at the tops?

Yes.

Or is that like getting thrown off of a horse into a pipe fence?   

Yes, both.

What is experience really? 

Experience that I am trying to convey, is born of feelings. The experience of how you feel.

Things we have experienced? 

Yes, the things that we have felt.

The light poles did NOT drip onto the pavement.

It reality, no.

 The pipe fence did hurt like hell.  See the difference?

The difference is in reality, not in the actual sense of feeling.

 Is there one?

No.

Joc, you are confusing facts with feelings.

Something doesn't have to be real to engender strong feelings and emotions.

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Helen of Annoy
37 minutes ago, joc said:

Experience...Is that like watching the walls breath in and out and the light poles dripping onto the pavement as the buildings all twist together at the tops?

Or is that like getting thrown off of a horse into a pipe fence?   What is experience really?  Things we have experienced?  The light poles did NOT drip onto the pavement.  The pipe fence did hurt like hell.  See the difference?  Is there one?

'scuse me for butting in, but is your digression leading anywhere near the topic? 

And why the false dichotomy? Both tripping on a substance and tripping over a fence are the experiences. The existence of one does not in any way exclude the existence of the other. Poles did not objectively drip but you did objectively trip. My experience with you is that this is the last time I'm catching you before you wander off into traffic, your experience is that the poles were dripping onto the pavement. 

Perfect example, albeit a bit drastic, for what Crazy Horse is telling you: one objective truth has as many personal truths as there are people involved. With a little bit of common sense, it's usually not a problem to reach the common conclusion on the most likely more-less whole, pretty objective truth. It doesn't take the experience away, though. 

 

Back on topic, it's not particularly kind to derail threads by going way too far off topic without any noticeable intention to go back. 

Be kind, stay reasonably close to topic. 

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WanderingFool0
1 hour ago, joc said:

Experience...Is that like watching the walls breath in and out and the light poles dripping onto the pavement as the buildings all twist together at the tops?

Or is that like getting thrown off of a horse into a pipe fence?   What is experience really?  Things we have experienced?  The light poles did NOT drip onto the pavement.  The pipe fence did hurt like hell.  See the difference?  Is there one?

I would say there is no difference and everything is experience. Like some philosophers before, I would say objective reality is not fully perceivable or knowable, because human beings can only go by their senses which are a subjective experience and reality. Everything, we see, smell, taste, hear and feel arises within in ones consciousness and is processed by the brain. Pain has no bearing on the reality of  an experience, because people who like amputees that have suffered phantom pains will tell you those pains are real. The truth is there is no way to measure or validate the objective reality independent of our subjective view of personal consciousness, because all the tools and methods of measuring exist within the framework of that consciousness and therefore could just be part of the subjective hallucination. We just do not know. We could very well wake up at some point somewhere else as someone or something else, possibly at the moment of death, and find that our whole life was just a persistent dream and none of the experiences were really real.

Edited by WanderingFool0
correction
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Manwon Lender
14 hours ago, joc said:

No, I actually can say that your 'truth' is not the actual truth.  It is your perception of the truth...but it isn't the truth.  How we Actually experience life is completely irrelevant as to the actual truth.  We call it...the laws of physics.  Feeling, schmeeling...

I find it interesting that you think you can translate what someelse finds true for them. In truth you concept is flawed, because it is impossible to to tell anyone that their sense of truth is false. Your do not have the ability to see into some else's mind or soul and just like say here your truth is not actual truth, and your comments have nothing to do with the laws of physics, they only apply to the laws of self. 

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Crazy Horse
7 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Yes. 

Which is why only people who want to synchronize their truths can live happily ever after. Not only people whose alliances started as romantic involvement, it's also like that with friendships and family. 

When you deeply love someone you won't just write their truth off, you'll look into it until you see why it's the truth for that person and from that point on you two can compare own reasons and see what could be your common truth, or agree on the difference and make space for it.  

That ability to make space for a difference and leave it to exist as different as it is, is one of the signs of true love - it shows that you value the other as much as you do value yourself. You've got no urge to force your truth on the other. But you do have a strong desire to understand the other. But it works only if you really think like that, faking it only generates frustration. 

Thanks for that Helen.

Top answer.

If only we could apply this to everybody we ever met. Leaving space for a difference to exist.

What a beautiful idea. :-*

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joc
7 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Which is why only people who want to synchronize their truths can live happily ever after. Not only people whose alliances started as romantic involvement, it's also like that with friendships and family. 

When you deeply love someone you won't just write their truth off, you'll look into it until you see why it's the truth for that person and from that point on you two can compare own reasons and see what could be your common truth, or agree on the difference and make space for it.  

That ability to make space for a difference and leave it to exist as different as it is, is one of the signs of true love - it shows that you value the other as much as you do value yourself. You've got no urge to force your truth on the other. But you do have a strong desire to understand the other. But it works only if you really think like that, faking it only generates frustration. 

 

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

'scuse me for butting in, but is your digression leading anywhere near the topic? 

And why the false dichotomy? Both tripping on a substance and tripping over a fence are the experiences. The existence of one does not in any way exclude the existence of the other. Poles did not objectively drip but you did objectively trip. My experience with you is that this is the last time I'm catching you before you wander off into traffic, your experience is that the poles were dripping onto the pavement. 

Perfect example, albeit a bit drastic, for what Crazy Horse is telling you: one objective truth has as many personal truths as there are people involved. With a little bit of common sense, it's usually not a problem to reach the common conclusion on the most likely more-less whole, pretty objective truth. It doesn't take the experience away, though. 

 

Back on topic, it's not particularly kind to derail threads by going way too far off topic without any noticeable intention to go back. 

Be kind, stay reasonably close to topic. 

Kettle...Black

bye

 

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Helen of Annoy
45 minutes ago, joc said:

 

Kettle...Black

bye

 

I apologize for quoting you after you said bye, but I would like to clarify it for you why I'm certain I was not in fact off topic.

True love is the state where compassion is total, which opens ways for expressing kindness without limits. True love is not separable from kindness, it is its final form of sorts. 

In an ideally advanced society, we could treat anyone with unlimited kindness, without caution necessary at this stage. We could be truly in love with every other truly loving soul.

 

I will respect your wish to end this discussion, this was not a challenge, merely a clarification. 

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XenoFish
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I find it interesting that you think you can translate what some else finds true for them. In truth you concept is flawed, because it is impossible to to tell anyone that their sense of truth is false. Your do not have the ability to see into some else's mind or soul and just like say here your truth is not actual truth, and your comments have nothing to do with the laws of physics, they only apply to the laws of self. 

Why not people do that all the time around here.

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Why not people do that all the time around here.

I think if you tell someone what they beleive in their heart isn't true, that's arrogant. While I agree it is done all the time here, that doesn't such comments valuable or even realistic. On the subject at hand to do so is saying nothing  more than my opinion is better than opinion and that's nothing but conjecture along with foolishness.

Just in my Opinion

Peace

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XenoFish
10 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I think if you tell someone what they beleive in their heart isn't true, that's arrogant. While I agree it is done all the time here, that doesn't such comments valuable or even realistic. On the subject at hand to do so is saying nothing  more than my opinion is better than opinion and that's nothing but conjecture along with foolishness.

Just in my Opinion

Peace

Sometimes what people believe "in their heart" isn't true. It might even been unhealthy. 

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Manwon Lender
18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Sometimes what people believe "in their heart" isn't true. It might even been unhealthy. 

That may be true, but you know what they say about opinions. Just like telling someone your opinion is better than theirs, when people think they know better than everyone else that is also not healthy. In fact it is delusional, because no one is right or wrong all the time but some can't see the forest through the trees. In most cases opinions aren't based upon obvious facts, they are based on assumptions, feelings, and personal experiences so without facts no one can say another's opinion isn't valid.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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joc
9 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I apologize for quoting you after you said bye, but I would like to clarify it for you why I'm certain I was not in fact off topic.

True love is the state where compassion is total, which opens ways for expressing kindness without limits. True love is not separable from kindness, it is its final form of sorts. 

In an ideally advanced society, we could treat anyone with unlimited kindness, without caution necessary at this stage. We could be truly in love with every other truly loving soul.

 

I will respect your wish to end this discussion, this was not a challenge, merely a clarification. 

bottom line Sweetheart  

Kindness has nothing to do with love.   We are all kind to  people every day whom we do not love.  The truth is Helen...I love me.  I love myself.  I love myself more than any other person on this planet.  Everything I do...everything I see...everything I encounter...is out of that love for myself.  ....and in that love...for me...I would sacrifice myself for you...or anyone else if need be.  Because I love me...I can love you...and I can love the homeless person on the street...and kindness is evoked from me...to the world...not because I love the world...I don't...I hate the world...but I love me...and I am you and I am every single person I meet.

Bottom line...Kindness has everything to do with love.   Because I love myself first...and most. 

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Helen of Annoy
5 hours ago, joc said:

bottom line Sweetheart  

Kindness has nothing to do with love.   We are all kind to  people every day whom we do not love.  The truth is Helen...I love me.  I love myself.  I love myself more than any other person on this planet.  Everything I do...everything I see...everything I encounter...is out of that love for myself.  ....and in that love...for me...I would sacrifice myself for you...or anyone else if need be.  Because I love me...I can love you...and I can love the homeless person on the street...and kindness is evoked from me...to the world...not because I love the world...I don't...I hate the world...but I love me...and I am you and I am every single person I meet.

Bottom line...Kindness has everything to do with love.   Because I love myself first...and most. 

 :yes:

Beautifully written, bravely honest and a sound foundation for deeper experiences, if they come your way, in my opinion.

My dearest Pumpkin. :lol: 

(I can't resist playing the baby talk game, but I was dead serious about my opinion of the quality of your writing and soul.)    

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Crazy Horse
13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Sometimes what people believe "in their heart" isn't true. It might even been unhealthy. 

I have another view and another truth.

What is experienced in the mind, can, and often is corrupted by someone or something, but what is felt, not believed, but felt in the heart is always true, for you.

You and I both reading the same post may have a completely different opinion and therefore a different feeling, and yet both feelings are correct, and are true for each of us.

Every experience in life is based upon our feelings, which are born from perception, attitudes and our over-all mindset.

Change your perception and change your feeling, and change your experience, and your truth.

Happiness and peace is really only one decision away.

 

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Crazy Horse
13 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

That may be true, but you know what they say about opinions. Just like telling someone your opinion is better than theirs, when people think they know better than everyone else that is also not healthy. In fact it is delusional, because no one is right or wrong all the time but some can't see the forest through the trees. In most cases opinions aren't based upon obvious facts, they are based on assumptions, feelings, and personal experiences so without facts no one can say another's opinion isn't valid.

Peace

I don't feel this is so much about trying to figure-out whose opinion is right, and whose opinion is wrong. This is a far more fundamental issue of how we perceive the world around us from day to day, and from moment to moment, and therefore,how we are going to experience it. Experiences are far more important in the sense that a happy and peaceful existence is better than any opinion. That's my opinion anyway. :D

Whatever someone is experiencing, that's their truth, and that is the truth, for them.

Positive attitudes, a sense of dignity, a sense of humour, and a sense that even if the arch of justice is a long one, it still bends in the direction of love and Truth.

If you truly believe this, then you shall see it, and you shall experience the world thus.

 

 

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LightAngel
On 2/22/2020 at 10:24 AM, Crazy Horse said:

I don't feel this is so much about trying to figure-out whose opinion is right, and whose opinion is wrong. This is a far more fundamental issue of how we perceive the world around us from day to day, and from moment to moment, and therefore,how we are going to experience it. Experiences are far more important in the sense that a happy and peaceful existence is better than any opinion. That's my opinion anyway. :D

Whatever someone is experiencing, that's their truth, and that is the truth, for them.

Positive attitudes, a sense of dignity, a sense of humour, and a sense that even if the arch of justice is a long one, it still bends in the direction of love and Truth.

If you truly believe this, then you shall see it, and you shall experience the world thus.

 

 

 

Another beautiful post. :)

True happiness comes naturally - it can't be forced.

You actually don't even think about it when you are in that state of mind.

By the way, it doesn't mean that you are blind to the problems around you - it just means that you don't make life harder than it is. 

 

 

 

Billedresultat for kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see

It makes me happy to read all the brilliant posts here! :P

Edited by LightAngel
Too much coffee lol
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Helen of Annoy

There can never be such thing as too much coffee *twitches*  

 

16 minutes ago, LightAngel said:

 

Another beautiful post. :)

True happiness comes naturally - it can't be forced.

You actually don't even think about it when you are in that state of mind.

By the way, it doesn't mean that you are blind to the problems around you - it just means that you don't make life harder than it is. 

 

 

 

Billedresultat for kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see

It makes me happy to read all the brilliant posts here! :P

:yes:

Exactly. 

Also, from the purely practical point of view: looking into a problem without any break lowers one's ability to solve it. We all need breaks, encouragements, advice, assistance... speaking of which, we can't always actually help someone, but sane people get psychological boost from being treated with compassion.  

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LightAngel
12 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There can never be such thing as too much coffee *twitches*  

 

 

 

:D

Billedresultat for coffee 50ies

 

 

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