The Shoe is on the other Foot

[+Sherapy]

13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

On the contrary, he'd be tickled pink by it. Some of the other sledging he gets, not so much.

But this thread isn’t about him. This thread  is about taking others perspectives and walker has no interest in this. 
 

We are interested in others perspectives, not the one they always have. 

Lightly can pm him, I am sure he would love to hear from him.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:24 PM, Mr Walker said:

Some were; some were not

I fully appreciate that i have different values around alcohol. from most. 

I dont preach that others should not drink, but also I don't feel obliged to attend functions where there is an open bar and  people can drink throughout  a formal occasion. 

It is not a religious thing, but I have seen first hand the violence, loss of control, sexual harassment and abuse,  crime  and injury  caused by the casual acceptance of alcohol as a necessary part of people's lives 

I chose, as an educator, not to attend a function which I felt endorsed harmful practices to quite young people 

After all, for all the previous occasions, over at least 40 years of senior school graduations , alcohol had never been available at such a function. 

I am lucky 

I have no need for alcohol or any drugs in my life 

I am happy, fulfilled, relaxed,  etc without them.  

I don't have any inhibitions or fears which require alcohol to overcome, or to give me "dutch courage".

While, for some, they can just be a pleasant addition to a meal, for others they  are an addiction, and a cause of real problems and misery, in families and society

I think I've told the story of a fellow teacher in his thirties, who asked me to look after kids on a camp, so he could go to the pub.

When i asked him why he needed to go, he replied he had never gone a day without alcohol in his adult life.

And there was me who, basically, had not had an alcoholic drink  on  any day, in my  adult life   

I agreed, on the condition  that  he would look after the kids, while i had dinner with my brother and sister in law, the next night They lived in Quorn, where the outdoor education site for students was located 

 

The thread  is derailed enough. 
 

Let’s get back on topic. It is much more interesting than alcohol. 
 

How about you have you changed your mind on perspective shifting?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

13 hours ago, lightly said:

 You are a bit of a mystery...   ?   And a bit long winded at times? . . But ,in general, I find your posts interesting.. They seem to be the product of an absolutely brilliant mind ! * 

lol, brilliant or crazy  

I enjoy all forms of communication, and i am lucky to have learned to read and type fast. I actually write more briefly here than i do anywhere else, because some readers seem to have either poor reading skills or a very short attention span   As a teenager and young man I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours discussing and debating every topic which has ever come up here and some which have not (or so it seems to me)  

A lot of it is a life of reading, discussion, debate, and constant learning  It is where i get my kicks rather than sports, music, or other forms of entertainment. 

Thus i am very handy at quiz nights, no one will play trivial pursuit with me, and i am lucky to have lots of online games to challenge and expand my knowledge (i thoroughly recommend  "cody cross"  )

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fanatee.cody&hl=en_AU

 

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Habitat said:

On the contrary, he'd be tickled pink by it. Some of the other sledging he gets, not so much.

yep lol I agree with it all  

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

But this thread isn’t about him. This thread  is about taking others perspectives and walker has no interest in this. 
 

We are interested in others perspectives, not the one they always have. 

Lightly can pm him, I am sure he would love to hear from him.  

I am exceptionally interested in perspectives and beliefs, and how they are formed ,and how they can be reinvented.

My point was that one cannot deny something one knows to be true, in order to play a game pretending one can.

(IMO)  The game can't work with knowledge, although it works very well with beliefs values moralities etc. 

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The thread  is derailed enough. 
 

Let’s get back on topic. It is much more interesting than alcohol. 
 

How about you have you changed your mind on perspective shifting?

The example i gave showed my perspective and how i acted on it (i could see the other blokes perspective although I found it worrisome But i could never again accept it for myself )

(here is a bloke who once consumed 4.5 litres (a gallon) of beer and a litre of whisky in an evening, then fell asleep, with no side effects and no discernable alteration of faculties)  but i was young and stupid and keen to impress a girlfriend's father. 

This is a real example of a total perspective change, as I now have not had more than a couple of glasses of alcohol in the last 45 years. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

The example i gave showed my perspective and how i acted on it (i could see the other blokes perspective although I found it worrisome But i could never again accept it for myself )

(here is a bloke who once consumed 4.5 litres (a gallon) of beer and a litre of whisky in an evening, then fell asleep, with no side effects and no discernable alteration of faculties)  but i was young and stupid and keen to impress a girlfriend's father. 

This is a real example of a total perspective change, as I now have not had more than a couple of glasses of alcohol in the last 45 years. 

I am not interested. 

Moving on.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I am not interested. 

Moving on.

I made that call long ago. 

[+Sherapy]

14 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I am exceptionally interested in perspectives and beliefs, and how they are formed ,and how they can be reinvented.

My point was that one cannot deny something one knows to be true, in order to play a game pretending one can.

(IMO)  The game can't work with knowledge, although it works very well with beliefs values moralities etc. 

Meaning you won’t. 
 

I can put on the shoes of one who believes in god, who “thinks” they know god too. It works just fine. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

Anyone who can not visualize what they imagine won't be able to participate in this thread. It takes concentration and creativity to achieve a shift in perspective; to look at the world through the eyes of another or see yourself from their perspective. It's not something folks with sharply limited conceptual ability can achieve. 

[+Sherapy]

23 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Anyone who can not visualize what they imagine won't be able to participate in this thread. It takes concentration and creativity to achieve a shift in perspective; to look at the world through the eyes of another or see yourself from their perspective. It's not something folks with sharply limited conceptual ability can achieve. 

We did it, it was fun, it is still your turn. Lol

I challenge this because no poster has bragged more about an incredible imagination even crippled by an inability to visualize pictures who has transcended the limitations of his image blindness and has projected his consciousness astral traveling globally, now finds himself struggling with something as mundane as perceiving the atheist mindset ( he even claimed to be one), or as bare bones as the agnostic perspective. Or even the humanist take the perspective of his upbringing. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Meaning you won’t. 
 

I can put on the shoes of one who believes in god, who “thinks” they know god too. It works just fine. 

not wont. I cant pretend that something real is not real.

That would be the product of a mental illness  I can pretend that any belief or value is different  and i do that every day just writing here.

You CANNOT know  what it is like to live with god and thus you cannot pretend to.  but of course you can pretend to believe in god and understand that pretence  I can pretend to be a woman and think from a woman's experience/pov but i cant know what would be like,  and it would be dishonest to say that i could 

thus you cannot put on the shoes of a person who actually lives in the presence of a "god"  anymore than i can truly put on the shoes of a woman 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Anyone who can not visualize what they imagine won't be able to participate in this thread. It takes concentration and creativity to achieve a shift in perspective; to look at the world through the eyes of another or see yourself from their perspective. It's not something folks with sharply limited conceptual ability can achieve. 

Thats not entirely true. I cant visualise(ie i cannot see any images in my mind)  but i live my own life without this skill.

I can "visualise" in thoughts and words the life of anyone, from any time, as an exercise in creative imagination but i cant claim to be anyone but myself  I read several books every day and have done so for over 60 years. I can become a character from  a book in my imagination and pretend I am thinking and acting as that character would do.

I've written entire books, with dozens of characters embedded in an alternate reality that i created from  scratch.

Becsue this was for an interactive game (dungeons and dragons) i had to formulate a number of logical responses  based on the  non playing character's nature and background  for any encounter with a role playing  member of the game.  As well as the  writer and dungeonmaster i was also "Sans Sensei"  an itinerant monk with no possessions other than those he could carry, but a high level of unarmed combat skills and an almost mystical knowldge of terrain/ locations etc     (which i could carry off because i scripted and managed the game play )

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Hammerclaw]

26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Thats not entirely true. I cant visualise(ie i cannot see any images in my mind)  but i live my own life without this skill.

I can "visualise" in thoughts and words the life of anyone, from any time, as an exercise in creative imagination but i cant claim to be anyone but myself  I read several books every day and have done so for over 60 years. I can become a character from  a book in my imagination and pretend I am thinking and acting as that character would do.

I've written entire books, with dozens of characters embedded in an alternate reality that i created from  scratch.

Becsue this was for an interactive game (dungeons and dragons) i had to formulate a number of logical responses  based on the  non playing character's nature and background  for any encounter with a role playing  member of the game.  As well as the  writer and dungeonmaster i was also "Sans Sensei"  an itinerant monk with no possessions other than those he could carry, but a high level of unarmed combat skills and an almost mystical knowldge of terrain/ locations etc     (which i could carry off because i scripted and managed the game play )

Great. So, imagine your Sherapy, reading one of your self-absorbed posts and comment on it, just like she would. Should be a cinch for a modern major-general.

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

We did it, it was fun, it is still your turn. Lol

I challenge this because no poster has bragged more about an incredible imagination even crippled by an inability to visualize pictures who has transcended the limitations of his image blindness and has projected his consciousness astral traveling globally, now finds himself struggling with something as mundane as perceiving the atheist mindset ( he even claimed to be one), or as bare bones as the agnostic perspective. Or even the humanist take the perspective of his upbringing. 

You are not reading my posts and where the y diverged 

i have no trouble imagining another's perspective on a belief or value or morality. I do this all the time 

What is impossible is to extend this to reality and to pretend something is not real then act as if it was not  That is dishonest and potentially dangerous as well as a little unbalanced 

The point of the thread  was to ask people who believe in god to pretend the y do not (or vice versa) That doesn't work if it is not belief, but knowledge, which informs you. 

I know what it is like to be an  atheist   but i can never know what its like to be a woman.   I cant unknow what it is like to live with a real and powerful god, either. I cant unknow what  it is to be a 68 year old man and to pretend to be something else while a good exercise in imagination and empathy is ultimately pointless  (except as excellent entertainment value in creative thinking, writing, dreaming etc ). 

I guess one point i am making is "be careful what you wish for"  and dont let your imagination dreams etc  disappoint  you  in your real  life  or (as an example )  cause you to act like a young man or woman  when you are not.

Don't let thoughts of other  imaginary partners grow into infidelity.

Maybe my problem is too much abilty here, rather than too little.   

[Mr Walker]

17 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Great. So, imagine your Sherapy, reading one of your self-absorbed posts and comment on it, just like she would. Should be a cinch for a modern major-general.

I think i have good handle on sherapy and her psychological profile  But I try to avoid commenting unless she initiates an exchange. I've known sherapy online for about 10 years.

Given the limitations of any online communication (which are considerable)  I know her better than i do many people 

I think it would be wrong, and possibly offensive, to pretend to be her . 

but what the heck.

Fun overruled propriety  

"I think Wally has created an imaginary world, based on need. He is an older lonely male   without much purpose or excitement in his life so he has created an alternate reality which provides him with one 

His  constant self  referencing is typical of a narcissistic personality. which explains why he always makes himself the centre of attention  

He is  a nice guy, who clearly loves his wife deeply,  but  is also obviously  deluded, given what he posts as reality.

My doctor/psychologist friend, and my online learning in psychology,    have helped me understand  that such a fantasy life is a typical behaviour for a person who experienced parental abuse.  

Not saying that Wally' s parents were abusive, but it would explain his vivid and ongoing fantasy life  if, in real life, he was strictly controlled and disciplined by his parents "

Hows that?   

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You are not reading my posts and where the y diverged 

i have no trouble imagining another's perspective on a belief or value or morality. I do this all the time 

What is impossible is to extend this to reality and to pretend something is not real then act as if it was not  That is dishonest and potentially dangerous as well as a little unbalanced 

The point of the thread  was to ask people who believe in god to pretend the y do not (or vice versa) That doesn't work if it is not belief, but knowledge, which informs you. 

I know what it is like to be an  atheist   but i can never know what its like to be a woman.   I cant unknow what it is like to live with a real and powerful god, either. I cant unknow what  it is to be a 68 year old man and to pretend to be something else while a good exercise in imagination and empathy is ultimately pointless  (except as excellent entertainment value in creative thinking, writing, dreaming etc ). 

I guess one point i am making is "be careful what you wish for"  and dont let your imagination dreams etc  disappoint  you  in your real  life  or (as an example )  cause you to act like a young man or woman  when you are not.

Don't let thoughts of other  imaginary partners grow into infidelity.

Maybe my problem is too much abilty here, rather than too little.   

No it isn’t the idea the thread is to entertain a perspective other than the one you have.

Why be in the thread then? Fair question,

Edited January 17, 2020 by Sherapy

[Dejarma]

On 12/27/2019 at 4:10 AM, Jodie.Lynne said:

i.e., if you are a non-believer,

none believer of what? 

[Mr Walker]

17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

No it isn’t the idea the thread is to entertain a perspective other than the one you have.

Why be in the thread then? Fair question,

 Initially  to explain that,  in response to one post, it is not possible to pretend that something real does not exist (or it is possible, but pointless and potentially dangerous ) 

Its strange how both you and paranoid android took from that, that  I could not alter a perspective That is simple and easy and i was taught how to do so as a very young child I do it all the time while reading writing and viewing  I also do it  while studying history politics etc

My point was simple There is no harm in altering a perspective on a value belief or idea 

However to do this with knowledge ( if  it is even possible) is dangerous   it is how conspiracy theorists are created , or anti vaxxers, or flat earthers  The y evolve an unreal perspective on reality 

it is how many Japanese history books can  still describe Japan as a victim in WW2, rather than an aggressor or simply not include any reference to the atrocities committed by japanese troops. 

Thats what can happen when you start to play around with perspectives on real things.  

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I am not interested. 

Moving on.

Not interested?  Yet ,again, a few posts later you say i don't have the abilty to alter a perspective.

That was a radical example of a real change in perspective.   

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

9 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not interested?  Yet ,again, a few posts later you say i don't have the abilty to alter a perspective.

That was a radical example of a real change in perspective.   

Ha ha ha ha ha

[Dejarma]

29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

it is not possible to pretend that something real does not exist

is it possible to pretend something that is not a fact does exist?

[+Sherapy]

3 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

is it possible to pretend something that is not a fact does exist?

Exactly. 

[+Paranoid Android]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Its strange how both you and paranoid android took from that, that  I could not alter a perspective That is simple and easy and i was taught how to do so as a very young child I do it all the time while reading writing and viewing  I also do it  while studying history politics etc

I'm not saying you "can't" alter perspective. Only that I've never seen evidence from you that you can....

[+Paranoid Android]

1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

is it possible to pretend something that is not a fact does exist?

Yes!