The patriotic move is for Trump to resign

[RavenHawk]

14 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Yeah yeah yeah. Trump, Graham and McConnell are all afraid to call witnesses.

Of course.  We’ve all seen what happens with process crimes.  Anybody, including you, can be found guilty of just about anything.  This is why we have the 5^th Amendment protections.  But the prosecution needs to make the case.  Their case is not compelling.  If it was, I could see how the Senate would be inclined to nullify executive privilege.  Graham and Trump want to call witnesses, like the Bidens, Comey, Brennan, et al.  But I think they are going to wait for the Durham report to come out.

 

They want this trail over and done with and the dem's won't have a bar of it.

Actually, Trump and Graham do not want it to be over.  McConnell, I think, wants to end it now so that the Senate can focus on the FISA abuses and other corruption.  I think Trump wants to follow the path leading through Biden.  It is certainly a target rich environment and whichever path it goes, the Progs are in a world of hurt.

 

Trump went so far as to call the previous 19 that testified against him "never Trumpers".

OK and?  You’d call them never-Riskys if they tried to railroad you.  But the one thing that came out of it is their integrity (at least for most of them).  They wouldn’t perjure themselves to make up lies.

 

He has blocked the flow of facts going forth.

He has?  Who released the transcript?  Who is it that is blocking the identity of the whistleblower?

 

Of course Trump is welcome to state his silly crowdstike allegations but he has to stop obstructing justice.

We’ve known about Cloudstrike for years now.  Just because the MSM doesn’t cover it doesn’t mean it never happened.  It only means that the MSM is covering it up.  The truth will come out.

 

And we won't see real evidence until McConnell bites the bullet and forces the big fish to testify.

He doesn’t have the authority to violate executive privilege.  This is something that would need to go to the Supreme Court.  By that time, the Progs will lose control of the House and the new Speaker will call for a vote to overturn the impeachment.  Then the investigations will begin looking into the actions of Pelosi, Schiff, & Nadler.  I’d suspect that if they aren’t voted out this time, they may just resign.

 

As for cutting throats... why should it bother you what the dam's do?   

I don’t care what you guys do.  You can go commit seppuku if you want.  It’s just that your childish actions could perhaps drag this nation down and that bothers me.  Although, I do think enough rats will abandon ship before it reaches critical mass.

 

Due process is being ignored.

I don’t think you know what it is.  Yes, it was being ignored during the House hearings.  There is no requirement to have it in a hearing.  It is just simple common courtesy.  The Republican House afforded Clinton full participation.  The House Progs position is so weak that they couldn’t take the chance to do the same.  The Socialist-MSM complex is running out of tricks.  The people are wise to them.  No longer can the Left count on the MSM to throw dirt out there to sway public opinion.  Their power is coming to an end.

 

Trump is under every obligation to testify the fact that he doesn't is only due to Mitch.

He is under no obligation.  Especially if he doesn’t need to.  And if the Prosecution can’t make their case, it can’t go fishing.  That’s why Trump doesn’t have to.  We’ve seen what happens when the Prosecution is left with fishing for process crimes.

 

Executive privilege didn't save Nixon and his crime was half that of Trump's. 

You really think there is a similarity between the two.  You do realize that with Nixon, the real crime wasn’t the break-in, it was the coverup?  Did Trump Break-in to any place?  Did he try to coverup the act?  He even released the transcript.  It’s almost like he set it up to trigger the Left??  There is nothing to save Trump from, except for the hatred of the Left.  And he has that well in hand.

[RavenHawk]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats generally what happens when an investigation is obstructed. It continues until it gets past those obstructions. There is a really easy way for Trump to end this particular investigation.

 

 

So then you are fine with pressing the investigation into FISA abuses, the Bidens, Comey, Brennan, Stroik, et al?  We’ll all see where the real corruption is.

[RavenHawk]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Dude just stop.  You are on the wrong side of the Constitution discussion. As evidence here is the POTUS you are defending asking why we should follow the Constitution.

You want @and then to stop?  You need to take your own advice.  Where is Trump questioning us from following the Constitution?  Pelosi is clearly abusing her power and doing exactly the same thing she has just impeached Trump on.  Which side is straying from the Constitution?  It isn’t Trump.  Sure, the House can impeach a President because they don’t like him, but I really don’t think that is what the Founding Fathers had intended impeachment to work.  We are defending a President from smears and hate.

[RavenHawk]

12 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Trump seems to forget that he is president of Nancy's district too.  It takes both of them working together to pass legislation and solve problems. 

He hasn’t forgotten.  He’s now warned Newsom that if he doesn’t take care of the situation, Trump will.  The only thing preventing Newsom and Pelosi from fixing this issue is the ideology of the Left.

[Tatetopa]

19 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

So then you are fine with pressing the investigation into FISA abuses, the Bidens, Comey, Brennan, Stroik, et al?  We’ll all see where the real corruption is.

Sure.   It is time to get all corruption out of government if we can; those who hate Trump and those who hide behind him.  

That would be great for a Senate corruption investigation.  It is not so much related to impeachment though.  Did Trump abuse his office for personal gain or not?   That should be an easy question to answer, and it stands on its own.

You can throw in whatabout Comey and yeahbut Biden, but those are side issues, important ones but unrelated   Not saying don't deal with them, it is another set of issues that deserves its own focus.

[RavenHawk]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Hey that brings up a great point.

Have you noticed how he has turned "small government conservatives" into pro big government state interventionists?

I think in cases of a crisis, where the state is incapable or unwilling to fix a problem, the President is well within his prerogative to pull in national resources.  That is not pro big government.  Pro big government is what happened with SS.  It was only meant as a temporary measure.  Now it does more harm than good to our nation’s health.

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

He hasn’t forgotten.  He’s now warned Newsom that if he doesn’t take care of the situation, Trump will.  The only thing preventing Newsom and Pelosi from fixing this issue is the ideology of the Left.

If Trump warns Newsome as effectively as he did Erdogan, next thing you know California will be annexing Arizona and moving all of their undesirables there.

RavenHawk, it is not just California.  .Homelessness, drug abuse.  and violent crime are all over the country.

What ideology from the right is going to fix that?  Why has nothing been done in three years?  Are all of the homeless, drug addicts, and mass murderers illegal immigrants?  Is the wall going to fix all of our social problems?

There are definitely some times for tough talk and firm action, but it takes some thought to formulate a successful strategy. 

[skliss]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Then the investigations will begin looking into the actions of Pelosi, Schiff, & Nadler

And let's not forget that one of Hunter Biden's business partners is Pelosi's son. I think that's really at the basis of her reluctance to engage in impeachment in the 1st place. Unfortunately, for her, they forced her hand. Maybe she's waiting for whatever cover-up is going on behind the scenes before she sends those articles on.

[RoofGardener]

On 12/27/2019 at 4:37 AM, Captain Risky said:

The patriotic move is for Trump to resign

Trump, like Nixon, is accused of participating in a cover-up involving the investigation of political opponents. But Trump's alleged transgressions are worse than Nixon's because they concern an attempt to involve a foreign power in the American political process

Donald Trump should follow suit and resign.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/26/opinions/nixon-trump-impeachment-resign-higginbotham/index.html

ROFL. 

I can't BELIEVE this. 

It is - of course - CNN. 

So.. the "progressives" couldn't get him in a vote. They couldn't get him with "Russia" allegations. They couldn't get him with Mueller. They couldn't block his Supreme Court nominations. They couldn't even - it would appear so far - get him with a 'successful' Impeachment resolution in the House. 

So now they're hoping he will just... dunno.. resign for reasons of "Patriotism" ? And THAT from CNN ?  

Just how DESPERATE is the "Left" going to get ? I mean.. what's left ? 

 

[RavenHawk]

11 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Sure.   It is time to get all corruption out of government if we can; those who hate Trump and those who hide behind him. 

Well let’s start going after the real corruption, then worry about lingering remnants.  The Left has nearly flaunted their corruption with impunity.  Let’s shut this down and for once, not worry about the other side for the moment.  They will get theirs.  That just creates paralysis.  We need an old fashion style Stalinist purge (politically speaking) and that is what Trump is doing.  Trump has the Left wound up tightly.  They are at a breaking point now.  What do you think will happen when this impeachment farse finds no traction?  After it leaves the House, no one is interested.

 

That would be great for a Senate corruption investigation.  It is not so much related to impeachment though.  Did Trump abuse his office for personal gain or not?   That should be an easy question to answer, and it stands on its own.

It is an easy question to answer.  It just depends on how gullible you are.  The answer is simply no.  But even if it is what he wanted to do, there is nothing wrong with digging up dirt to influence an election (especially if it is factual).  This is what was done to him and the dirt was invented.  Biden wasn’t trying to dig up dirt on a political rival.  But he was trying to stop an investigation into his son and turned it around for personal gain.  That is corruption.  Hilary used her foundation to sell access to the President when she was Sec. or State.  That is corruption.  But if Trump is guilty of using his office to influence an election, Pelosi is guilty of the very same thing.  And she is trying to influence 2 elections.  The real corruption is from Comey and Biden.  And those two are the low hanging fruit.

 

You can throw in whatabout Comey and yeahbut Biden, but those are side issues, important ones but unrelated   Not saying don't deal with them, it is another set of issues that deserves its own focus.

Comey and Biden are central to the core of the corruption.  If it wasn’t for Comey, there would be no fake Russian collusion.  You just can’t throw up false accusations and keep considering them fact years later.  Nothing was found then and nothing is found now.  That does not make Trump corrupt.  You have bought into the fake narrative pushed out by the MSM that Trump is corrupt (and ignore the corruption of the Left).  You can’t think for yourself.  If you did, you’d question all the schitt the Left has been pulling.  They keep milking that narrative because there are those like you gobbling it up.  People are getting tired of that and if they see an opening to end it, they will take it.  That’s why I predict a landslide election for Trump.

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

If Trump warns Newsome as effectively as he did Erdogan, next thing you know California will be annexing Arizona and moving all of their undesirables there.

Trump has no control over Turkey.  He has federal powers over California.

 

RavenHawk, it is not just California.  .Homelessness, drug abuse.  and violent crime are all over the country.

No schitt Sherlock!  California is simply getting out of hand.  And what better example?

 

What ideology from the right is going to fix that?  Why has nothing been done in three years?  Are all of the homeless, drug addicts, and mass murderers illegal immigrants?  Is the wall going to fix all of our social problems?

This is a typical response of someone that isn’t very aware.  This is something that has been going on for multiple decades.  Trump has a lot on his plate and these governors aren’t trying to help out?  Do the governors approach Trump, tell him, here is my plan, can I get some help?  The inner city has been controlled by Socialists for over 60 years.  It has created a Plantation mentality where there is no path to success for those that are entrapped in it and the people are dependent on government for crumbs.  The Socialists gain their power from it and grow.  They are not interested in fixing anything.  They want to perpetually keep it going.

 

There are definitely some times for tough talk and firm action, but it takes some thought to formulate a successful strategy. 

Trump usually doesn’t act if he doesn’t have a plan.  Being a wealthy business owner has given him the skills to do that.

[Tatetopa]

11 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Well let’s start going after the real corruption, then worry about lingering remnants.  The Left has nearly flaunted their corruption with impunity.  Let’s shut this down and for once, not worry about the other side for the moment.  They will get theirs.  That just creates paralysis.  We need an old fashion style Stalinist purge (politically speaking) and that is what Trump is doing.  Trump has the Left wound up tightly.  They are at a breaking point now.  What do you think will happen when this impeachment farse finds no traction?  After it leaves the House, no one is interested.

Remember that thread on compromise that somebody put up?  This is the time for compromise.  Stop looking at left and right and putting them in different boxes.  Put them all in the same box, corrupt politicians.  If somebody is stealing from me, I don't care what their political views are.  I just want them put away so they can't steal from me anymore.

 

20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Nothing was found then and nothing is found now. 

What US intelligence agencies claimed to have found is Russian interference into the election.  What Mueller found resulted in 25 or so indictments and a number of convictions and prison sentences.  Yep, that doesn't mean the president was in on it, just a lot of people around him.  Better for all of us if they are not around the president anymore.  You can believe that everything you don't like is a hoax or a fake, but eventually, logic fails to support that.

You want to accuse Hillary of total corruption for selling access to the president, but when Trump does it, he did nothing wrong.  Apply the same standards to both,  That is equal justice.   That is what I want, not the left, niot the right , simply a just government.

[Tatetopa]

13 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

It has created a Plantation mentality where there is no path to success for those that are entrapped in it and the people are dependent on government for crumbs. 

And your plan to do something about that?  

[Farmer77]

12 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I think in cases of a crisis, where the state is incapable or unwilling to fix a problem, the President is well within his prerogative to pull in national resources.  That is not pro big government.  Pro big government is what happened with SS.  It was only meant as a temporary measure.  Now it does more harm than good to our nation’s health.

Of course anything the big government's propaganda machine says is a crisis is a crisis as long as the dear leader is in charge right?

Yet the other party "manufactures crises" in order to spread big government and must be stopped right?

yeah we see you and your situational principles

13 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

You want @and then to stop?  You need to take your own advice.  Where is Trump questioning us from following the Constitution?  Pelosi is clearly abusing her power and doing exactly the same thing she has just impeached Trump on.  Which side is straying from the Constitution?  It isn’t Trump.  Sure, the House can impeach a President because they don’t like him, but I really don’t think that is what the Founding Fathers had intended impeachment to work.  We are defending a President from smears and hate.

 

In the tweet I posted. He literally challenged the constitution.   Like a good cult member you arent blinking and thats cool, you do you , just dont pretend to care about the constitution or constitutional America. Again, we see you

13 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

So then you are fine with pressing the investigation into FISA abuses, the Bidens, Comey, Brennan, Stroik, et al?  We’ll all see where the real corruption is.

LMAO sure Ravenhawk im fine with a raving lunatic convincing his cult members that investigating the investigators repeatedly in order to secure the desired result is normal healthy behavior for a democratic republic.

If you cant tell the above is sarcasm.

[RavenHawk]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Remember that thread on compromise that somebody put up?

Yup.

 

This is the time for compromise. 

Nope.

 

There is no compromising with the Left.  They are power hungry to their own devices driven by narcissism.  They do not know how to compromise.  Compromising with Socialism has screwed this country up.  Compromise is a subterfuge to them.  A key element in corruption.  They can only be dictated to.  Of course, I think the Right needs to drop this ‘kinder and gentler’ crap and go for the juggler.  Even if they would just make a stand for once, things would run better.  They have reneged on their duty to lead.  Trump has changed that.  The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.  The Left pushes its corruption and the Right ignores it and, in some cases, enables it.  It is this current paradigm that creates dysfunction and allows the grip of Socialism to expand at the expense of us all.  The ultimate end of Socialism is pain, misery, and death.  History has proved it time and time again.  This is the root of corruption.  It is not an act of an individual or two.  It is the act of an ideology that people buy into.  Imagine if all citizens would buy into the ideology of the Original Intent the Founding Fathers established?  There would be nothing to stop this country.

 

Stop looking at left and right and putting them in different boxes. 

No matter how you look at it, they belong in different boxes.  They are vastly different animals.  Corruption is merely a symptom and both sides are affected very differently.  The Right has not yet sold its soul to the Devil completely.  Dropping the corruption label for a moment, one party is bent on a Socialist-Globalist mentality.  The other is just simply an American first approach.  Both parties should be focused on what is best for the nation.  That should be their primary concern.  Having a Globalist outlook is not the best for a nation, especially this nation.  Now there is corruption in both parties but this Globalist mentality enables another level of corruption.  It requires absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  The Founding Fathers devised a method of government that can thwart absolute power, provided that the people are ardent at establishing new ‘safeguards’.

 

Put them all in the same box, corrupt politicians. 

That does a disservice to the problem.  It doesn’t address the problem.  The Left brings a higher level of corruption because there is an adverse ideology behind it.  One bent on usurping the Constitution.  There is no end as to what this kind of corruption will go to, to achieve its goal.  It will project its corruption on an innocent man to remove that obstacle.  And hope to gain suckers into believing it.

 

If somebody is stealing from me, I don't care what their political views are.  I just want them put away so they can't steal from me anymore.

Socialism goes beyond just stealing material goods from you.  It steals your soul.  It steals your Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.  I don’t care where they go, I want them powerless so that they can’t steal from me more than they already have.  And their ideology matters.  It is that which drives them.

 

What US intelligence agencies claimed to have found is Russian interference into the election. 

And there has always been interference from Russia as we have always interfered with them.  It is all part of the game of international intrigue.  The Progs are making more out of it than there is.  Where was all of this concern about interference under Obama?  The interference in the 2016 election was under his watch.  He was not concerned and he knew about the FISA abuses.  That massive kind of failure just doesn’t ‘happen by accident’.

 

What Mueller found resulted in 25 or so indictments and a number of convictions and prison sentences. 

And the convictions of those individuals with ties to Trump had nothing to do with crimes dealing with the Campaign or Russian collusion.  Most were process crimes with the intent to intimidate others to compose what Mueller wanted to hear.

 

Yep, that doesn't mean the president was in on it, just a lot of people around him. 

Nobody around him was found guilty of Russian collusion.  And he was only a Candidate for President at that time.

 

Better for all of us if they are not around the president anymore. 

I would imagine that every President has had such types around them.  How many times did Sharpton visit the White House?  Obama tried to distance himself from Rev Wright and rarely talked about Frank Marshall Davis.

 

You can believe that everything you don't like is a hoax or a fake, but eventually, logic fails to support that.

Precisely, however, despite the logic and reality, the Left continues to push the Party line.  For them, I don’t think there is an ‘eventually’.  They’ll ignore the facts and keep pushing on.  This is why there is no compromising with them.  I usually believe things that pass the smell test (whether I like it or not).  Hoax drips off the Left as easily as honey from a heated jar.  It runs out everywhere, getting everything sticky and making a mess.  So of course, I don’t like it.

 

You want to accuse Hillary of total corruption for selling access to the president, but when Trump does it, he did nothing wrong. 

And when has Trump done that?  How many millions has Trump enriched himself with?  What was that?  Oh, he’s actually been losing money on the deal.  He doesn’t take a salary.  He has been called to a higher purpose, service to the nation.  He didn’t have to do this.  And the people that crave power are jealous.  This interloper is busting in on their sweet deal to turn this country into one giant Plantation.  An they have come out saying that Trump is an imposter.  They don’t even try to hide their intentions.

 

Apply the same standards to both,  That is equal justice.   That is what I want, not the left, niot the right , simply a just government.

You can’t apply the same standards to both because the Left believe that they are above the law.  That is what their ideology tells them.  They know better than the rest of us.  If the Left is not put in its place, we will never have a just government.  Our government is corrupt because it is out of balance.  Both sides are the blame for that but the one actively seeks anarchy.  And from anarchy they extract power.  And that kind of power gives them the audacity to steal from us with impunity.  If this nation has a hope of a future, Trump has started the procedure (to drain the swamp) but it will take all Americans to get vigorously involved in the body politic.  That means learning their history.  Learning about the Founding Documents (including the Federalist Papers).  Finding new pride in this nation.  Maintaining our Borders, Language, and Culture.  Being very protective of the original intent.

 

You can’t sit on the fence forever.  You’re going to have to choose which problem is more important to you.  You can certainly go after the corruption of the Right and ignore the Left, but, as meager as it is, the Right is the only thing that keeps the Left in check to some degree.  The existential threat to this country is the Left.  Without even the corruption of the Right, the Left would rewrite the 1^st Amendment to exclude hate speech and hate speech would be anything the Left defines it to be.  They would totally abolish the 2^nd Amendment.  These two are core Rights to our existence, but they are obstacles to the Left and their ultimate goal.  So you can ignore that at your own peril.  I agree that all corruption needs to be dealt with, but you can’t take it as all the same.  It needs to be broken down into smaller parts.  Making equivalences with the corruption on the Right enables the Left to dodge reining them in.  They will perpetually use fairness and equality by tricking others to get their way.  That must end!  By that time, perhaps term limits will be imposed and that should help with controlling the simple corruption of both sides.

[Farmer77]

15 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

I think the Right needs to drop this ‘kinder and gentler’ crap and go for the juggler. 

Just got the imagery of a bunch of red hats and polo shirts chasing this guy down the street

[Raptor Witness]

On 12/28/2019 at 9:32 AM, Raptor Witness said:

Trump is a bear, caught in a steel trap. Tortured by everyone, poked at and prodded. He roars on Twitter like he’s still free to roam. Yet, he cannot conduct business as usual, as a famed racketeer.

He will never free himself, his ego would never allow it. He must show off his wounds, that his roars can be justified.

A self firing Trump would be a self proclaimed “loser,” and that’s one thing it’s far too late to admit.

Bleakly, I said, hang your head in shame and pain, most of U.S. truly do hate you, and your kind. Not because of your gold and clubs; rather, because your abuse of our fair minds ... to the point of madness.

We no longer love to hate you, we really do hate you. But don’t quit, at least not until your leg is badly injured enough, that the political bone gleams white for the circling wolves to feast on.

Into the night, dark monster, into the fire, but never ... freedom. We won’t allow it.