Guyver Posted January 17, 2020 #151 Share Posted January 17, 2020 PS. In other words....things that don’t exist, and things you don’t know that do exist are the same to you. There is no difference. And, BTW, things exist of which you are not aware and that is plain enough for any smart person to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 17, 2020 #152 Share Posted January 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Guyver said: There is a difference between things that are not known to exist and things that don’t exist. Right? So, what doesn’t exist - you don’t know. And things that exist of which you are not aware of are also not known. Get it? 21 hours ago, Guyver said: PS. In other words....things that don’t exist, and things you don’t know that do exist are the same to you. There is no difference. And, BTW, things exist of which you are not aware and that is plain enough for any smart person to see. Of course things exist that I am not aware of. Souls aren't one of those things, though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 17, 2020 #153 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 9:05 AM, Imaginarynumber1 said: I know "love" exists. I know it can be measured. Oxytocin and serotonin. So what chemicals measure the "soul", specifically. What can you look at in the brain and say, "that's the soul". And I dont mean creativity, which you seam to think is the same things. I'm talking about the religious concept of a soul, the thing that is you that exists indepent of your physical body. Oxytocin and Serotonin can be isolated and measured. Blood cells can be isolated and measured. Every aspect of the material world can be isolated and measured. Can we isolate and measure a concept? How does that work? Soul is a concept. If it were isolatable, if it were measurable...it would have already been done so. 22 hours ago, Guyver said: And things that exist of which you are not aware of are also not known. Get it? It is impossible for any one person to know everything that is known. Closer to the truth is...you don't know one Nth of what is known. Some people know some things, some know others, but one thing we know for sure is that what ever it is we don't know...we will eventually know it. A soul is a belief. Nothing more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted January 18, 2020 #154 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, joc said: It is impossible for any one person to know everything that is known. Closer to the truth is...you don't know one Nth of what is known. Some people know some things, some know others, but one thing we know for sure is that what ever it is we don't know...we will eventually know it. I view the first two of your sentences as true. The last one......well if by "we" you mean the human race, you are expressing a belief. The human race could be wiped out tomorrow by an asteroid strike and we would know nothing more than we know now. If you mean "we" as in we as individual people....it's 50/50. If there is a soul, or spirit residing in us.....we may or may not learn more....eventually knowing everything, or at least everything we need. If there is no soul or spirit, we will know nothing and we won't even know that we don't know anything because we will not exist. Quote A soul is a belief. Nothing more. As is the belief that the soul is a belief and nothing more. It's funny how so many people seem to be offended by the word belief, yet everyone has them. It certainly possible that the soul is more than a belief and you don't know it. So, anyway....that's about all I have to say about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted January 18, 2020 #155 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: Of course things exist that I am not aware of. Souls aren't one of those things, though. That is so contradictory. First you express truth.....then you express belief. How in the heck do you know there is no such thing as a soul? Have you invented a "soul gauge" to measure people with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 18, 2020 #156 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Guyver said: As is the belief that the soul is a belief and nothing more. It's funny how so many people seem to be offended by the word belief, yet everyone has them. It certainly possible that the soul is more than a belief and you don't know it. So, anyway....that's about all I have to say about it. There is a fallacy of logic somewhere in there Guyver. Conceptualizing that a Soul exists... a Conscious State remaining after death...is a belief. Conceptualizing that a Soul doesn't exist...is not a belief. One can prove a positive. Ex: Souls exist and the proof is thus....yada, yada, yada. One cannot prove a negative. Ex: Souls do not exist and the proof is...how can you prove something doesn't exist? You cannot. You can only prove a things existence, not its non-existence. Therein is the fallacy of logic. Conceptualizing that Souls do not exist is based on factual evidence that a Soul cannot be experienced by any of the 5 senses, nor can it be measured or in any way accounted for other than mere conceptualizing it to be. Conceptualizing that a Soul exists is based on nothing but imagination...therefore...belief. Edited January 18, 2020 by joc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 18, 2020 #157 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Guyver said: That is so contradictory. First you express truth.....then you express belief. How in the heck do you know there is no such thing as a soul? Have you invented a "soul gauge" to measure people with? Because nature is simplicity. It will not be more complicated than it needs to be. There is zero need or reason for a soul other than to aid in man made concepts. Many have tried o find a "soul". None have ever succeeded. Believe all you want in childish concepts, but it's not real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 18, 2020 #158 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Guyver said: That is so contradictory. First you express truth.....then you express belief. How in the heck do you know there is no such thing as a soul? Have you invented a "soul gauge" to measure people with? CERN has. He's right. It doesn't exist. There's nothing in nature to indicate that it should. We look for things that should exist, like the Higgs Boson. There's absolutely no reason a soul should exist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted January 18, 2020 #159 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Lol. That is funny. Like the soul has anything to do with the Higgs-Boson. Jeez. By definition, the soul is non physical. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted January 18, 2020 #160 Share Posted January 18, 2020 If it isn't physical, it isn't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted January 18, 2020 #161 Share Posted January 18, 2020 For example. Personal goals are not physical. Therefore, they're not real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 18, 2020 #162 Share Posted January 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, Will Due said: For example. Personal goals are not physical. Therefore, they're not real. The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, nor to worry about the future, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly.” Peace 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 18, 2020 #163 Share Posted January 18, 2020 23 minutes ago, Guyver said: Lol. That is funny. Like the soul has anything to do with the Higgs-Boson. Jeez. By definition, the soul is non physical. Sigh. Neither is anything really until the Higgs generates mass by interaction with other particles. What exactly is the state of non-physical. How would you define that state? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 18, 2020 #164 Share Posted January 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Will Due said: For example. Personal goals are not physical. Therefore, they're not real. Best laid plans can go to waste. Nothing is real until you action it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 18, 2020 #165 Share Posted January 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: Because nature is simplicity. Compared to what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 18, 2020 #166 Share Posted January 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Habitat said: Compared to what ? It's wasn't a comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 18, 2020 #167 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just now, Imaginarynumber1 said: It's wasn't a comparison. You can't have simplicity as a meaningful idea, without also having complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 18, 2020 #168 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: You can't have simplicity as a meaningful idea, without also having complexity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 18, 2020 #169 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: Roll your eyes all you like, but to say nature is simplicity, is a meaningless statement.\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 18, 2020 #170 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: Roll your eyes all you like, but to say nature is simplicity, is a meaningless statement.\ Sure, bud. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 18, 2020 #171 Share Posted January 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: Sure, bud. Complexity only exists outside of nature ? Where is this "outside of nature" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted January 18, 2020 #172 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, psyche101 said: Nothing is real until you action it. Neither are souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted January 18, 2020 #173 Share Posted January 18, 2020 21 minutes ago, Habitat said: Complexity only exists outside of nature ? I never said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 18, 2020 #174 Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said: I never said that I'm not too worried about it, but I really think "simplicity" and "complexity" are just tickets we put on things in relation to how difficult they are to predict or understand, for us. To a mathematician, calculus in "simple", to me it is "complex". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 18, 2020 #175 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Will Due said: Neither are souls. A real soul is the person you are, the way the sum of your experiences have shaped you. It's not some ghost or energy version of you. So in that respect, it's there as long as you are and as fluid as your life experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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