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zep73

You don't have a soul

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I am wasting time. I have 8 more hours to kill at work. I am wasting as much time as i can. 

Sound like a demanding job !

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Imaginarynumber1
Just now, Habitat said:

Sound like a demanding job !

I get paid a ridiculous amount of money to be here just in case something happens. IT is a sweet gig.

Still, if we are to accept the premise that the spiritual cannot be measured by the material, then we are left with the conclusion that the spiritual cannot have any interaction with the material, since it can't be measured, and therefore is pointless. 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I get paid a ridiculous amount of money to be here just in case something happens. IT is a sweet gig.

Still, if we are to accept the premise that the spiritual cannot be measured by the material, then we are left with the conclusion that the spiritual cannot have any interaction with the material, since it can't be measured, and therefore is pointless. 

I wouldn't say the spiritual doesn't interact with the material, but I would be rather less certain it will submit to measurement.

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Imaginarynumber1
Just now, Habitat said:

I wouldn't say the spiritual doesn't interact with the material, but I would be rather less certain it will submit to measurement.

Things that exist can be measured.

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Habitat
Just now, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Things that exist can be measured.

That assumes passivity of those "things".

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Davros of Skaro

If there's no soul? Then how can Undercover Brother enter this secure facility without said soul?

 

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Manwon Lender
9 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

https://www.salon.com/2015/01/25/you_dont_have_a_soul_the_real_science_that_debunks_superstitious_charlatans/ *

 

* Unfortunately the evidence talked about in the above article is not presented, but reserved for the readers of the book.
  So this OP serves more as a debate starter, than as a discussion pro/contra presented facts/claims.
  However, if you can provide the arguments/evidence from the book, please share them with us!

The reason the scientific community does really get involved in discussions like this or do not look for evidence of such is simple they don't want their names on something that can't be proven one way or the other. If someone ever presents empirical data on the subject many will personal get involved. I mean realistically you can't blame them!!

Peace

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cormac mac airt
29 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Things that exist can be measured.

 Including virtual particles which are both real and have measurable effects as well and yet, somehow, the soul and an afterlife can't be shown to be either real or have measurable effects. Right! :rolleyes:

cormac

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

 Including virtual particles which are both real and have measurable effects as well and yet, somehow, the soul and an afterlife can't be shown to be either real or have measurable effects. Right! :rolleyes:

cormac

That's just a statement that everything that is, is already known. An unscientific attitude, to say the least.

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Manwon Lender
29 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

 Including virtual particles which are both real and have measurable effects as well and yet, somehow, the soul and an afterlife can't be shown to be either real or have measurable effects. Right! :rolleyes:

cormac

Actually you answered you own question and yes just like you stated above you are right in everything you were being indifferent too.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender

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psyche101
44 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The reason the scientific community does really get involved in discussions like this or do not look for evidence of such is simple they don't want their names on something that can't be proven one way or the other. If someone ever presents empirical data on the subject many will personal get involved. I mean realistically you can't blame them!!

Peace

The scientific community does get involved in such matters. Thing is, it's not scientific in any way, do there's no courses or lectures, mainly because there is nothing to teach. Even the most ignorant people on the streets have heard superstitions. It doesn't take an education to be versed in BS.

On YouTube there are many debates. Great scientists like Sean Carroll, Steven Novella, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Bill Nye all have extensive debate records with theologians such as William Lane Craig and philosophy based adherents like Eben Alexander. 

And they are very good at putting things into perspective and pointing out just how ridiculous superstition really is.

Edited by psyche101
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Golden Duck
7 hours ago, Davros of Skaro said:

If there's no soul? Then how can Undercover Brother enter this secure facility without said soul?

 

Pretty much melanin theory.  So I guess it can be measured.

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joc
13 hours ago, simplybill said:

It will always be impossible to prove spiritual matters with material tools.

I beg to disagree....

...all of that beautiful stuff that happens in our brain...purely speculative as to how 'beautiful' it is.  Consider a minnow swimming around.  Beautiful stuff going on in the minnow's brain?  To the minnow it probably is.  Now consider the more advanced brain of a chimpanzee...more beautiful stuff going on in there than the minnow right?

The difference between the 'beautiful stuff' going on in the brain of a chimp and the beautiful stuff going on in the brain of a human is a direct result of the neo-cortex in the brain of a human.  It is the 'grey matter' than creates the beauty.  And that grey matter is the result of an evolution that occurred over a long, long period of time...which is why we find fossils of "T Rex" but no fossils of humans from that period.

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bison

It could also be maintained that the evolutionary development of the brain allowed the expression of more and more 'beautiful stuff', because it allowed and mediated fuller expression of the soul in the material world. 

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Paranoid Android

This sounds like a book written just for the sake of writing a book (profit). Most people who read it are going to have an opinion on the topic already, and if you believe science has nothing to say about consciousness then the book will validate your views and if you believe the "soul" is an intangible quantity then no amount of writing is going to change your view. 

Maybe I'm wrong. If so then did the author submit a an excerpted version of his book for scientific peer review? That would be an interesting follow through. If not, why not? Selling books does neatly sidestep the whole need for peer review, though. 

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UFO_Monster
Posted (edited)

The soul cannot be measured. We don't even know what one looks or feels like. The only thing we have is a brain, which can be tested, observed, and measured in various ways. Our brains are the closest things that we have to a "soul," as it is what holds our deepest desires, our emotions, and greatest fears. When it all comes down to it, the human experience will always be linked to the brain. Such attributes are commonly attributed to the soul by those who favor fantasy over reality. The brain actually holds and processes all of these things for us.

No soul required.

Edited by UFO_Monster
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XenoFish

Spirituality and spiritual things belong in the realm of psychology. Since it has more to do with what someone thinks and feels instead of objective proofs. The supposed 'soul' is just consciousness under a different name. 

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Habitat
9 minutes ago, UFO_Monster said:

The soul cannot be measured. We don't even know what one looks or feels like. The only thing we have is a brain, which can be tested, observed, and measured in various ways. Our brains are the closest things that we have to a "soul," as it is what holds our deepest desires, our emotions, and greatest fears. When it all comes down to it, the human experience will always be linked to the brain. Such attributes are commonly attributed to the soul by those who favor fantasy over reality. The brain actually holds and processes all of these things for us.

No soul required.

You appear to have rushed to a judgement. Just the brain again, I suppose.

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UFO_Monster
Just now, Habitat said:

You appear to have rushed to a judgement. Just the brain again, I suppose.

I went to a private Baptist Christian school for 7 years, and before that I was part of a Methodist church for 6 years. This is not a rushed judgment.

Also, someone mentioned that spiritual matters cannot be measured through physical means. My pastor and schoolteachers told me to talk to God and he would answer any questions I had. That was always their go-to answer. Guy's probably bad at returning phone calls, because I never once received a reply from him. I guess it must not have been that important. :huh:

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psyche101
13 hours ago, UFO_Monster said:

I went to a private Baptist Christian school for 7 years, and before that I was part of a Methodist church for 6 years. This is not a rushed judgment.

Also, someone mentioned that spiritual matters cannot be measured through physical means. My pastor and schoolteachers told me to talk to God and he would answer any questions I had. That was always their go-to answer. Guy's probably bad at returning phone calls, because I never once received a reply from him. I guess it must not have been that important. :huh:

How's your Morse code?

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Golden Duck
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, UFO_Monster said:

I went to a private Baptist Christian school for 7 years, and before that I was part of a Methodist church for 6 years. This is not a rushed judgment.

Also, someone mentioned that spiritual matters cannot be measured through physical means. My pastor and schoolteachers told me to talk to God and he would answer any questions I had. That was always their go-to answer. Guy's probably bad at returning phone calls, because I never once received a reply from him. I guess it must not have been that important. :huh:

You've been ghosted - holy ghosted.

Edited by Golden Duck
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Jodie.Lynne

To the OP: You're right, I don't have a soul, I've got a bunch! Dare to count my freckles? Just remember to add one more when you finish counting.... :devil:

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Wes83

Hmm.... I don’t really think a god that replies (or not) to us is evidence for or against a soul. I don’t imagine we could find evidence of a soul looking outward either. 

In an atomic universe, must all things be measurable? What is the measurement for taste? How can we package creativity? What’s a thought look like? Surely you could tear apart our anatomy and never once find proof of a thought? 
 

having fathered 6 children and spending much time watching the development of personalities among my own children and others as well, I find it difficult to believe we are simply biological machines. Impossible to prove to another, and I’m ok with that, finding my truth doesn’t require convincing you. Respectively, have you found your own truth, you sincerely will not care to debate or peddle it, would you?

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Habitat
On 1/1/2020 at 10:15 AM, UFO_Monster said:

My pastor and schoolteachers told me to talk to God and he would answer any questions I had. That was always their go-to answer. Guy's probably bad at returning phone calls, because I never once received a reply from him. I guess it must not have been that important. :huh:

Right, these people might have genuinely believed what they told you, or were just fobbing you off, when it looked like you were reaching out for help. Either way, I'm not reading anything into it that would be decisive about "God".

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psyche101
27 minutes ago, Wes83 said:

Hmm.... I don’t really think a god that replies (or not) to us is evidence for or against a soul. I don’t imagine we could find evidence of a soul looking outward either. 

In an atomic universe, must all things be measurable? What is the measurement for taste? How can we package creativity? What’s a thought look like? Surely you could tear apart our anatomy and never once find proof of a thought? 
 

having fathered 6 children and spending much time watching the development of personalities among my own children and others as well, I find it difficult to believe we are simply biological machines. Impossible to prove to another, and I’m ok with that, finding my truth doesn’t require convincing you. Respectively, have you found your own truth, you sincerely will not care to debate or peddle it, would you?

I don't think your interested in veering away from a predetermined path. Things aren't as mysterious as they seem, and some research will answer your unanswerable questions. For instance, E-noses and E-tongues are measurement systems to measure smell and taste. They work the same way as humans do. They capture molecules of taste and smell on a receptor, analyse the raw data and recognize the taste and smell. Creativity list packaged by invention art, music and discovery. 

And what's a thought look like? We have filmed the brain of a mouse chemically storing a thought, we have placed false memories in mouse brains and returned some function to pigs brains that had been dead for hours. There's lots of proof of thought and a chemically driven brain. Thought lights up CAT scans. 

I have 4 step kids and 2 biological. I don't attribute their differences to magic, but life experience. Most people have some individuality concerning outlooks and views. That's going to unfold in different ways. 

There's nothing to be gained by introducing imaginary mediums. It just convolutes real research and discovery. Waste of time. If people spent as much time following the leading edge of discovery instead of self proclaimed wizards of ancient knowledge such discussions would not even exist.

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