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spartan max2

Corrections trainees fired over Nazi salute

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

So your comment that some might take offense to what @Aaron2016 said meant that you took offense?  I was not addressing you personally, just making an observation triggered by your comment that some might take offense to Aaron2016's comment about "snowflakes".  If you took it personally then that is something you can look at for yourself.  I'm sorry your brain is scrambled due to a medical condition.  I was not commenting on your thoughts, but rather on the idea that someone could choose to be offended by the term "snowflake".

I take no offense to your comments they are valid, I have a problem when people think a subject like this is humorous, its really not a joke, when millions have died because of this ideology. Its really has nothing to do with Snow Flakes which he is calling people who he says are frightened, or posting magazine covers with humorous depiction of a public figure dressed as Der Fuhrer.. Everyone does have a right to their opinion, mine is no better or worst than yours, or even his for that matter. I suppose I don't appreciate his comments, just like you don't appreciate mine time to move.

peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Not racist, against the midwest and western states.  the 13 colonies are on the east coast.

You mean the 13 States that made all the other States possible? God forbid we celebrate their history.

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Hammerclaw

RJ, you're a little too convincing at playing stupid. Just sayin'.

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Desertrat56
15 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I take no offense to your comments they are valid, I have a problem when people think a subject like this is humorous, its really not a joke, when millions have died because of this ideology. Its really has nothing to do with Snow Flakes which he is calling people who he says are frightened, or posting magazine covers with humorous depiction of a public figure dressed as Der Fuhrer.. Everyone does have a right to their opinion, mine is no better or worst than yours, or even his for that matter. I suppose I don't appreciate his comments, just like you don't appreciate mine time to move.

peace

I agree with you.  That is why I mentioned that @Aaron2016 comment was not part of the discussion, just a snarky comment, probably to elicit attention from causing someone to be offended by the word "snowflake".  Notice he has not been back?

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Desertrat56
17 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You mean the 13 States that made all the other States possible? God forbid we celebrate their history.

I guess I am not communicating very well today.  I was agreeing with you that it is not a racist flag, how could it be?

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I guess I am not communicating very well today.  I was agreeing with you that it is not a racist flag, how could it be?

I know. It was meant to be complimentary to your post in a droll way. Sorry if I missed the mark. Also, people have been raising their hands in gestures and salutes for thousands of years. Automatically equating them with Nazism is ludicrous. 

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Robotic Jew
14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

RJ, you're a little too convincing at playing stupid. Just sayin'.

If only you could see yourself.

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Desertrat56
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

I know. It was meant to be complimentary to your post in a droll way. Sorry if I missed the mark. Also, people have been raising their hands in gestures and salutes for thousands of years. Automatically equating them with Nazism is ludicrous. 

Yep.  People can make up all kinds of things to be offended by or to make others wrong, expressing their fears, not reality.

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Hammerclaw

Better watch yourself, RJ, over use of the confused face is starting to look racist.:w00t:

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

If only you could see yourself.

On the contrary, I didn't know I looked this good.:D

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Manwon Lender
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I guess I am not communicating very well today.  I was agreeing with you that it is not a racist flag, how could it be?

No your communicating your view just fine, like I said sometimes I can misread or take someone's comments in a context they don't intend. Thats is one of my many faults which is partly do to the (TBI) or Tramatic Brain Injury I suffered. When your brain bounces against your skull due to an explosion like mine did or from other causes it leaves lasting damage. 

Sorry I didn't mean to cause any drama, sometimes I suppose I am just a little slow these days on the up take.

peace

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yep.  People can make up all kinds of things to be offended by or to make others wrong, expressing their fears, not reality.

Or to manipulate public opinion by painting an enemy with false colors.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

No your communicating your view just fine, like I said sometimes I can misread or take someone's comments in a context they don't intend. Thats is one of my many faults which is partly do to the (TBI) or Tramatic Brain Injury I suffered. When your brain bounces against your skull due to an explosion like mine did or from other causes it leaves lasting damage. 

Sorry I didn't mean to cause any drama, sometimes I suppose I am just a little slow these days on the up take.

peace

Don't worry about it.  I sometimes misread things or let one word in a sentence trigger my stuff and go off half cocked.

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Manwon Lender
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Don't worry about it.  I sometimes misread things or let one word in a sentence trigger my stuff and go off half cocked.

Thanks for understanding.

peace

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Aaron2016
9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with you.  That is why I mentioned that @Aaron2016 comment was not part of the discussion, just a snarky comment, probably to elicit attention from causing someone to be offended by the word "snowflake".  Notice he has not been back?

I was at work.  Yes, I am part of the discussion.  I grew up watching comedies like Hogan's Heroes and Allo Allo which make fun of the Nazis in every conceivable way.  Classic films and Broadway shows like 'Spring Time for Hitler' have worldwide success.  Nobody is accusing the actors of those shows (many Jewish) of being Nazi sympathizers.  Mel Brooks recently did the Hitler salute on a chat show for fun.  Everybody laughed and took it all as entertainment.  The trainees were doing exactly the same and now they are sacked.  There can't be one law for entertainers and another for the general public.  That is the point I wish to make.  Yet some people can't see the difference between an innocent act of fun and an ideological devotion to the Nazis.  There is a clear difference.

 

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

I was at work.  Yes, I am part of the discussion.  I grew up watching comedies like Hogan's Heroes and Allo Allo which make fun of the Nazis in every conceivable way.  Classic films and Broadway shows like 'Spring Time for Hitler' have worldwide success.  Nobody is accusing the actors of those shows (many Jewish) of being Nazi sympathizers.  Mel Brooks recently did the Hitler salute on a chat show for fun.  Everybody laughed and took it all as entertainment.  The trainees were doing exactly the same and now they are sacked.  There can't be one law for entertainers and another for the general public.  That is the point I wish to make.  Yet some people can't see the difference between an innocent act of fun and an ideological devotion to the Nazis.  There is a clear difference.

 

Well, your comment about snowflakes seemed like a weak attempt to deflect the whole point.  The discussion wasn't that they were considered Nazi's but that they were disrespectful of their training officer.  Of course they were fired.  Maybe someone needs to investigate why 8/10's of the class thought it was ok to be disrespectful, maybe there is an issue with the training officer, or maybe those students were the "snowflakes" who thought he was too rough, when in fact he was doing his job.  Either way, they don't belong in that profession.  and it has nothing to do with nazis.

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spartan max2
6 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

I was at work.  Yes, I am part of the discussion.  I grew up watching comedies like Hogan's Heroes and Allo Allo which make fun of the Nazis in every conceivable way.  Classic films and Broadway shows like 'Spring Time for Hitler' have worldwide success.  Nobody is accusing the actors of those shows (many Jewish) of being Nazi sympathizers.  Mel Brooks recently did the Hitler salute on a chat show for fun.  Everybody laughed and took it all as entertainment.  The trainees were doing exactly the same and now they are sacked.  There can't be one law for entertainers and another for the general public.  That is the point I wish to make.  Yet some people can't see the difference between an innocent act of fun and an ideological devotion to the Nazis.  There is a clear difference.

 

I think public servants and officials should have a different standard on how professional they can act, yes.

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Hammerclaw

They may have been fired for insubordination and the salute was just symptomatic of the situation. Anyone who can't take orders in training is pretty much a washout, anyways.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

I was at work.  Yes, I am part of the discussion.  I grew up watching comedies like Hogan's Heroes and Allo Allo which make fun of the Nazis in every conceivable way.  Classic films and Broadway shows like 'Spring Time for Hitler' have worldwide success.  Nobody is accusing the actors of those shows (many Jewish) of being Nazi sympathizers.  Mel Brooks recently did the Hitler salute on a chat show for fun.  Everybody laughed and took it all as entertainment.  The trainees were doing exactly the same and now they are sacked.  There can't be one law for entertainers and another for the general public.  That is the point I wish to make.  Yet some people can't see the difference between an innocent act of fun and an ideological devotion to the Nazis.  There is a clear difference.

 

That's fine, however when you are born into a family that immigranted from Germany and you are a German like I am you don't see the Humor in your way of expressing yourself. Forum member Toast is also German and he still lives in Germany and also doesn't fine your comments humorous. This forum is made up of people from around the world, with different views on these subjects. While your view is no less important than anyone else's yours is narrowly confine to what you have experienced on American TV or in Tabloids. I am also an American born and raised in the country like you, but I still have my German back ground and my up bring in a German Family so I may be more sensitive to what happened in the past.

I for one never want to see it happen again, especially not in America.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Hammerclaw
31 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

That's fine, however when you are born into a family that immigranted from Germany and you are a German like I am you don't see the Humor in your way of expressing yourself. Forum member Toast is also German and he still lives in Germany and also doesn't fine your comments humorous. This forum is made up of people from around the world, with different views on these subjects. While your view is no less important than anyone else's yours is narrowly confine to what you have experienced on American TV or in Tabloids. I am also an American born and raised in the country like you, but I still have my German back ground and my up bring in a German Family so I may be more sensitive to what happened in the past.

I for one never want to see it happen again, especially not in America.

Peace

Ein Deutscher der ersten generation zieht grobe parallelen zwischen dem Nationalsozialismus und dem heutigen Amerika, Wie kurios.

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Aaron2016
26 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

That's fine, however when you are born into a family that immigranted from Germany and you are a German like I am you don't see the Humor in your way of expressing yourself. Forum member Toast is also German and he still lives in Germany and also doesn't fine your comments humorous. This forum is made up of people from around the world, with different views on these subjects. While your view is no less important than anyone else's yours is narrowly confine to what you have experienced on American TV or in Tabloids. I am also an American born and raised in the country like you, but I still have my German back ground and my up bring in a German Family so I may be more sensitive to what happened in the past.

I for one never want to see it happen again, especially not in America.

Peace

The reason the Nazis are on the forefront of people's minds is that we see them daily in documentaries and films about the war which are made and repeated with growing regularity to paint the Nazis as spawns of Satan despite the fact that the average German soldier was not involved with any of the reported atrocities.  The Nazis have been forced into the 21st century limelight by the media.  Just like racism being exaggerated to paranoia.  I remember when actor Morgan Freeman was asked what the media can do to stop racism.  His answer - "Stop talking about it."  Making an issue where none exist is what polarizes people and drives them to hysteria e.g. Climate change with the world ending in 12 years, Trump being the new Hitler, Imminent terrorist attacks, disease pandemics, and a secret world order.  It's all drivel and hyped up BS.  I live in Northern Ireland and we are tougher skinned with former IRA terrorists in government and work colleagues involved in violence during the troubles.  I guess we just don't see the issue that doing a fascist salute as a joke can be taken so seriously that it can become a sackable offence.

 

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Aaron2016
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Well, your comment about snowflakes seemed like a weak attempt to deflect the whole point.  The discussion wasn't that they were considered Nazi's but that they were disrespectful of their training officer.  Of course they were fired.  Maybe someone needs to investigate why 8/10's of the class thought it was ok to be disrespectful, maybe there is an issue with the training officer, or maybe those students were the "snowflakes" who thought he was too rough, when in fact he was doing his job.  Either way, they don't belong in that profession.  and it has nothing to do with nazis.

I posted earlier that 'Too many snowflakes today are paranoid that the Nazis are coming back to get them.'  That is a factual observance, yet according to members like Toast that observance somehow disrespects the apparent "55 million" who died by the Nazis, which is simply bs.  The war ended over 70 years ago but the propaganda war is apparently still in full play.  It shouldn't matter if some members are from Germany, but I understand that laws in Germany are so strict (fascist) that they can't even discuss and revise what took place during the war.

The instructor was the one who told the trainees to do the salute.  She was responsible, yet all of the trainees were sacked.

 

Time.com

West Virginia’s governor has fired 34 correction officer trainees who were photographed giving a Nazi salute, and he fired their instructor.  He also says four instructors are being suspended without pay.

Republican Gov. Jim Justice announced his decision Monday after receiving a report from state investigators that the trainees regularly gave the Nazi salute “as a sign of respect” for their instructor in the weeks prior to the release of the photo. Its release earlier this month triggered widespread outrage.

“As I said from the beginning, I condemn the photo in the strongest possible terms,” Justice said in a statement Monday. “I also said that this act needed to result in real consequences – terminations and dismissals. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated on my watch in any agency of state government.”

A three-page executive summary was released Monday detailing the state’s inquiry into the controversial image.

The summary determined that an unnamed number of trainees in Academy Class 18 began using the hand gesture in the second or third week of training “as a sign of respect” for their correctional academy instructor, Karrie Byrd. Other classmates then began using the gesture. Justice said Byrd has been fired

The executive summary does not mention the word “Nazi” but only refers to the cadets’ action as the “hand gesture.” The cadets’ faces were blurred by the state when it released the photo.

“Several cadets recognized it for its historical implications and refused to go along with the class,” the report read. “Others who knew the implications of the gesture felt pressure to fit in and joined in. Some of these class members voiced their concerns to classmates.”

According to the summary, Byrd told investigators that she was unaware of the hand gesture’s historical and racial implications and said she thought it was a greeting. However, other interviewers seem to contradict Byrd’s statement.

For example, the report found two instructors separately approached Byrd once witnessing the hand gesture being used by Academy Class 18 members. It said one instructor tried to tell Byrd and the class about the negative connotations of using a hand gesture similar to a Nazi salute. But the report summary found one cadet responded, “Look at me, I am black, and I am doing it.”

“The gesture was done with Byrd’s knowledge,” the report read. “The investigation disclosed that she encouraged it, reveled in it, and at times reciprocated the gesture. Additionally, Byrd appeared to overrule the corrective actions taken by others and assured the cadets the behavior was acceptable.”

Byrd eventually directed her class to use the hand gesture while taking a photo of the class, it said, and it added that after 10 members resisted, Byrd explicitly directed them to give the gesture. Seven of those cadets told investigators they made a fist so as to appear to comply with Byrd’s demand but not directly mimic a Nazi salute — which can be seen in the photo released.

When Byrd later asked a secretary to print the photo with the caption “Hail Byrd,” she was pressed by a secretary on what the class was doing, the report said. State investigators say Byrd responded with “because I’m a hardass like Hitler.”

The photo also made its way before “Capt. Daniels-Watts,” according to the report, which withheld the captain’s first name. The report said the captain never addressed Byrd about the photo and did not attempt to stop the photo’s distribution. “Do I resign now or what?” Daniels-Watts asked state officials during the investigation. “I saw the picture and did nothing.”

Ultimately, investigators determined the cadets displayed “poor judgment” but concluded no one who participated in the gesture was being discriminatory.

The report concluded: “There is no dispute that the ‘Hail Byrd’ gesture and photograph were highly offensive and egregious in appearance, but the investigation did not reveal any overt motivation or intent that this was a discriminatory act towards any racial, religious, or ethnic group.”

 

Edited by Aaron2016
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toast
8 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

I posted earlier that 'Too many snowflakes today are paranoid that the Nazis are coming back to get them.'  That is a factual observance, yet according to members like Toast that observance is somehow disrespects the apparent 55 million who died by the Nazis (which in itself is total bs).

The only BS here are your attempts to play down the event. In addition, you tried to generalize the event ("Audrey Heburn and Harry did it as well"). After that round, as you failed to explain that the salute is something normal, you declared as it as some kind of fun and entertainment. Your ignorance, and arrogance as well, to the matter is disgusting. And yes, the salute is a disrespect against the millions of killed people. People who dont see the link are prospective/hidden nazis by themselves somehow or suffer dementia.

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, toast said:

The only BS here are your attempts to play down the event. In addition, you tried to generalize the event ("Audrey Heburn and Harry did it as well"). After that round, as you failed to explain that the salute is something normal, you declared as it as some kind of fun and entertainment. Your ignorance, and arrogance as well, to the matter is disgusting. And yes, the salute is a disrespect against the millions of killed people. People who dont see the link are prospective/hidden nazis by themselves somehow or suffer dementia.

So lets summarise. 

The students played a joke, suggesting that their instructor was an authoritarian dictator. 

The End. 

Ye gods.. I'm amazed they where only sacked. The Liberals normally punish humor with the death penalty. 

I find it interesting that the firing was ordered by the Governer, who was - until 2 years ago - a Republican, but then crossed the floor to become a Democrat. Perhaps he is "virtue signalling" to his new Democrat masters ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Aaron2016
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, toast said:

The only BS here are your attempts to play down the event. In addition, you tried to generalize the event ("Audrey Heburn and Harry did it as well"). After that round, as you failed to explain that the salute is something normal, you declared as it as some kind of fun and entertainment. Your ignorance, and arrogance as well, to the matter is disgusting. And yes, the salute is a disrespect against the millions of killed people. People who dont see the link are prospective/hidden nazis by themselves somehow or suffer dementia.

Katharine Hepburn, not Audrey, and you sound paranoid to the point that you even stated that you think people here are "prospective / hidden nazis".  My mother is Jewish.  Does that make her a hidden Nazi as well?  The trainees saluted their instructor with a harmless jest to imply that she was tough.  Accusing them of having a hidden loyalty to a long dead fascist leader is paranoia and possibly libel.

 

Edited by Aaron2016
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