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danydandan

Casimir Effect Cause of Universe Expansion?

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danydandan

Two Russian astrophysicists released a paper, that I cannot find a link for, with a detailed and sound mathematical model that offers a pretty exciting conclusion.....

The Casimir Effect rather then dark energy is responsible for the accelerated expansion of the universe.

I know some people are going be perplexed as we all know that the Casimir Effect is a polar attraction. So how can it cause expansion? I honestly don't know, I am also wondering what acts as boundaries to this effect. What is being proposed is that because particles pop in and out of existence, the attraction between particles is causing attraction. For this to work you have to assume two things, 1) our universe has a boundary and 2) more particles are popping into existence outside of this boundary than inside. It all seems rather bombastic. 

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/mystery-effect-speeds-up-the-universe--not-dark-energy-says-study

 

Edited by danydandan
Only link I can find it's apparently it on arXiv
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bison

There is a link to the paper at the bottom of the Big Think article, labeled: 'International Journal of Modern Physics'. I saw the abstract, but the rest of the paper is behind a paywall.

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RabidMongoose
3 hours ago, danydandan said:

Two Russian astrophysicists released a paper, that I cannot find a link for, with a detailed and sound mathematical model that offers a pretty exciting conclusion.....

The Casimir Effect rather then dark energy is responsible for the accelerated expansion of the universe.

I know some people are going be perplexed as we all know that the Casimir Effect is a polar attraction. So how can it cause expansion? I honestly don't know, I am also wondering what acts as boundaries to this effect. What is being proposed is that because particles pop in and out of existence, the attraction between particles is causing attraction. For this to work you have to assume two things, 1) our universe has a boundary and 2) more particles are popping into existence outside of this boundary than inside. It all seems rather bombastic. 

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/mystery-effect-speeds-up-the-universe--not-dark-energy-says-study

 

Sounds like particles re-appearing between objects and then as they repel each other exerting an outwards pressure on them. Could be a particle carrying electromagnetic charge.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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sci-nerd
2 hours ago, danydandan said:

What is being proposed is that because particles pop in and out of existence, the attraction between particles is causing attraction.

That would require virtual particles to have an excess of positive energy. Is that even theoretically valid?

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danydandan
30 minutes ago, bison said:

There is a link to the paper at the bottom of the Big Think article, labeled: 'International Journal of Modern Physics'. I saw the abstract, but the rest of the paper is behind a paywall.

I get through my old college academic journals and Researcher, I didn't post a link because I couldn't find read for free option.

12 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Sounds like particles re-appearing between objects and then as they repel each other exerting an outwards pressure on them.

The Casimir effect is about attraction, utilising boundaries of glass or metal it's a quantum mechanics phenomenon.

10 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

That would require virtual particles to have an excess of positive energy. Is that even theoretically valid?

It's a difficult question to answer. We infer a mass but only within the limits of integration. As they can't be directly observed we can only observe their effects. The limits of integration gives the virtual particles the energy for the interactions. We use Feynman diagrams to represent them so they do have an energy 'shell'. 

Not really an answer, because it's in answerable.

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RabidMongoose
4 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I get through my old college academic journals and Researcher, I didn't post a link because I couldn't find read for free option.

The Casimir effect is about attraction, utilising boundaries of glass or metal it's a quantum mechanics phenomenon.

It's a difficult question to answer. We infer a mass but only within the limits of integration. As they can't be directly observed we can only observe their effects. The limits of integration gives the virtual particles the energy for the interactions. We use Feynman diagrams to represent them so they do have an energy 'shell'. 

Not really an answer, because it's in answerable.

The Casimir Effect from what I remember is a pressure force created between two objects. Electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength larger than the gap between the two objects gets excluded leaving more electromagnetic radiation outside of them. That creates a pressure difference attracting the two objects towards each other.

To repel each other than something odd is going on. I take it that its not negative pressure at small distances? Only large to explain the expansion of the universe?

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danydandan
19 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

The Casimir Effect from what I remember is a pressure force created between two objects. Electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength larger than the gap between the two objects gets excluded leaving more electromagnetic radiation outside of them. That creates a pressure difference attracting the two objects towards each other.

To repel each other than something odd is going on. I take it that its not negative pressure at small distances? Only large to explain the expansion of the universe?

If we place two mirrors, for example, facing each other in a vacuum, some of the waves will fit between them, bouncing back and forth, while others will not. As the two mirrors move closer to each other, the longer waves will no longer fit--the result being that the total amount of energy in the vacuum between the plates will be less than the amount elsewhere in the vacuum. Thus, the mirrors will attract each other.  So just think of the waves as a spring with decreasing energy.

What these guys are saying is that the effect is a replacement for dark energy. The math all checks out, included within it is relativity. I just don't see how it can work. Not sure about that negative pressure, the thing is this effect only happens at a boundary, so it's, the paper, making an assumption that our universe is finite and will expand forever.

Edited by danydandan
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RabidMongoose
17 minutes ago, danydandan said:

If we place two mirrors, for example, placed facing each other in a vacuum, some of the waves will fit between them, bouncing back and forth, while others will not. As the two mirrors move closer to each other, the longer waves will no longer fit--the result being that the total amount of energy in the vacuum between the plates will be less than the amount elsewhere in the vacuum. Thus, the mirrors will attract each other.  So just think of the waves as a spring with decreasing energy.

What these guys are saying is that the effect is a replacement for dark energy. The math all checks out, included within it is relativity. I just don't see how it can work. Not sure about that negative pressure, the thing is this effect only happens at a boundary, so it's, the paper, making an assumption that our universe is finite and will expand forever.

Two mirrors placed opposite each other would exclude wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation bigger than the gap. But the mirrors are used for the creation of virtual particles, not to demonstrate the Casimir Effect.

The vacuum of space is like the surface of the ocean. Space doesnt have zero energy but fluctuates around it just like the surface of the ocean isn't flat but has waves. It means that negative energy can momentarily exist at a point in space, and by negative I mean less energy than no energy at all.

That exotic negative energy comes in the form of exotic negative energy photons. The mirrors reflect those so called `virtual photons` back and forth. When the maths is done it causes a exotic negative energy field between the two mirrors which attracts them together.

The Casimir Effect and Exotic Negative Energy are two separate things, both of which attract objects together. The Casimir Effect can be demonstrated at small distances with there being no evidence of negative pressure pushing two objects apart. So I dont know how the latest finding would work, I can only assume that at large distances between two objects that negative pressure turns positive. Or there is a new force at work. 

I read the link and there is stuff in it which is wrong. There is frequent confusion of two topics portrayed as one and the same thing.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Grey Area

I could be totally off the mark here, but our understanding of the effect requires some heavy elements to be in play?  Elements that would not have been present for sometime after the Big Bang.

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RabidMongoose
15 hours ago, Grey Area said:

I could be totally off the mark here, but our understanding of the effect requires some heavy elements to be in play?  Elements that would not have been present for sometime after the Big Bang.

They dont require heavy elements at all. Exotic negative energy particles are a type of photon called a virtual particle, and the Casimir effect is made from excluding wavelengths of election larger than the gap between two objects.

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psyche101
17 hours ago, danydandan said:

If we place two mirrors, for example, facing each other in a vacuum, some of the waves will fit between them, bouncing back and forth, while others will not. As the two mirrors move closer to each other, the longer waves will no longer fit--the result being that the total amount of energy in the vacuum between the plates will be less than the amount elsewhere in the vacuum. Thus, the mirrors will attract each other.  So just think of the waves as a spring with decreasing energy.

What these guys are saying is that the effect is a replacement for dark energy. The math all checks out, included within it is relativity. I just don't see how it can work. Not sure about that negative pressure, the thing is this effect only happens at a boundary,

What exactly are they referring to with 'manifestation of the boundaries of the universe"?

17 hours ago, danydandan said:

so it's, the paper, making an assumption that our universe is finite and will expand forever.

Doesn't this from the link say otherwise?

Ashashenok further expounds that their idea doesn't claim that the universe has an end. Rather a "complex topology" occurs.

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danydandan
11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

What exactly are they referring to with 'manifestation of the boundaries of the universe"?

Doesn't this from the link say otherwise?

Ashashenok further expounds that their idea doesn't claim that the universe has an end. Rather a "complex topology" occurs.

The link does I didn't read it, I just read paper I assumed boundaries meant an end.

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