The Many Faces of the Occult

[rashore]

Quote

The demographic trends tell an incontrovertible story: The American church is in decline. In 2018 and 2019, 65 percent of Americans identified as Christians—down 12 percent from the previous decade. While Christianity’s numbers and influence are waning, other demographics are gaining ground; by 2051, if current trends continue, religiously unaffiliated Americans, so-called religious nones, could constitute as large a percentage of the population as Protestants.

 

Occultism is also on the rise. In 2014, the Pew Research Center found that 0.4 percent of Americans, or about 1 million to 1.5 million people, identify as Wicca or Pagan—potentially outnumbering the 1.4 million mainline members of the Presbyterian Church. By 2050, the number of practicing pagans in America is projected to triple to 6.6 million, or 1.5 percent of the population.

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/604084/pagans/

 

[XenoFish]

Paganism is less restricting and demanding of it's followers. Which isn't bad. Wiccan has the three fold law, which is a good rule of thumb to go by. 

[zep73]

Tired of sin, hell and doomsday, but not ready to quit the woo...

BTW, 'occult' just means hidden.
The hardware in your laptop is occult. And many children love to play occult and seek 

Edited January 1, 2020 by sci-nerd

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, rashore said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/604084/pagans/

 

Occultism is certainly on the rise, and these beliefs are shared by all demographics. Why it's pretty simple Christianity is becoming an archaic religion that is stagnating because of problems today that include child sexual abuse, and many other forms of criminal activities. When people lose faith in a religious beleif they in some cases revert to previously held beliefs or they experiment with new beliefs. Either way occultism can be an attractive beleif, you don't have to be member of a group, you can practice at home, and it is far more excepted today than it has ever been before.

peace

[Grim Reaper 6]

24 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Tired of sin, hell and doomsday, but not ready to quit the woo...

BTW, 'occult' just means hidden.
The hardware in your laptop is occult. And many children love to play occult and seek 

What's the difference between Woo and Poo?

[zep73]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

What's the difference between Woo and Poo?

I can think of a few, but probably nowhere near what you have in mind. So tell me.

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

I can think of a few, but probably nowhere near what you have in mind. So tell me.

I asked the question, please answer it, if you can't I understand.

peace

[zep73]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

I asked the question, please answer it, if you can't I understand.

peace

You asked a rhetorical question, typical for someone about to tell a joke. But okay, I'll play along.

One is with a W, the other is with a P.
Poo can make a flower grow, woo can't.
Woo rarely requires a plunger. Well not a physical one anyway...

[XenoFish]

48 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Tired of sin, hell and doomsday, but not ready to quit the woo...

BTW, 'occult' just means hidden.
The hardware in your laptop is occult. And many children love to play occult and seek 

Occult practices can be self empowering. Sometimes having a bit of imagination and creativity is better than a narrow field of view. Science and atheism can be very sterile to a person's creativity. Reducing people to being nothing more than microbes. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

You asked a rhetorical question, typical for someone about to tell a joke. But okay, I'll play along.

One is with a W, the other is with a P.
Poo can make a flower grow, woo can't.
Woo rarely requires a plunger. Well not a physical one anyway...

It wasn't a rhetorical question I just think that the word Woo is a joke, and it's equal to poo. 

[Bendy Demon]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Paganism is less restricting and demanding of it's followers. Which isn't bad. Wiccan has the three fold law, which is a good rule of thumb to go by. 

Heh..I tried the wicca thing and discovered that 99% of these people are simply role-playing.

To make a point, I was on one of their forums and a question was posed on how wicca (or whatever)changed their lives/outlook and how they do things and one person said that they didn't see any reason why it should change them at all. In short this person, as well as many others, were in it for the props and the feel-good stuff but wanted nothing to do with actually getting to the nitty-gritty of actually working on their views, perspectives and how they relate to the natural world which they are a  part of.

It's easy to babble out the 'merry met' or go on about the 'goddess' and all that because it requires no effort or, heaven forbid..responsibility.

The three-fold law is great as long as people actually understand that it requires more than just parroting platitudes and collecting stones and chanting gibberish. Once they fin out that their belief system requires a shift in their thinking, no matter how minuscule, then they will drop it like a hot potato and run away.

Wanna role play? Then go play pokemon or Magic: The Gathering. Want to understand your place in the natural world sans the props and fluff? Then we can talk a bit more intelligently.

[XenoFish]

All I've got to say in my own defense is that sigil magick works. Not in the woo woo way either. 

[Bendy Demon]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

All I've got to say in my own defense is that sigil magick works. Not in the woo woo way either. 

Doesn't all magic rely on blind belief in order for it to 'work'?

[XenoFish]

Just now, Bendy Demon said:

Doesn't all magic rely on blind belief in order for it to 'work'?

No. Actually magician (not sleight of hand) work with what can be consider woo concepts. However there is a heavy psychological principle behind it. While the rituals are just a form of theatrics, they can be used to empower an idea or wish. Basically the stronger the emotional component in a spell the more likely the intention is to take root in the mind. Shaping how the magician see's the world around them. The easiest way I can explain this is think about finding a quarter, visualize yourself finding one, do this every time you go out. There's a good chance you'll start noticing dropped change, a penny here, nickel there, oooh a dime, maybe even a quarter. I found $20 doing this before. Basically magick is intentionally changing one's focus. As for spiritual based beliefs, no clue. I found them to be trivial for real life things. I was pretty much what is called a black magician, meaning I did mostly materialistic (result based) workings. Belief itself can be the tool used, but it's applying that belief in a creative way. If you want to see modern magick just look at advertising and think about all the things you bought because of it. Corporate logos are just sigils. Catchy jingles are spells. 

A way to test this is to create a glamour. This involves altering your mindset to that of "I am beautiful" the doing things that reinforce that thought, grooming, pedicure/manicure, haircut, new clothes, starting a workout. Once the outside starts matching the inside (thoughts) and 'air' of beauty is created. So long as the personality matches. It's really just modern self-help in a spiritual party dress. 

[Bendy Demon]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Actually magician (not sleight of hand) work with what can be consider woo concepts. However there is a heavy psychological principle behind it. While the rituals are just a form of theatrics, they can be used to empower an idea or wish.

Hmm..yes. I can see how that would work but, once a practioner understands this then wouldn't that make all the theatrics and props kinda..silly?

For example, if one want to buy a particular car, thinking and visualization is nice but nothing happens unless you pick up the classifieds and search.

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

This involves altering your mindset to that of "I am beautiful" the doing things that reinforce that thought, grooming, pedicure/manicure, haircut, new clothes, starting a workout. Once the outside starts matching the inside (thoughts) and 'air' of beauty is created. So long as the personality matches. It's really just modern self-help in a spiritual party dress. 

I have met many people who were 'plain jane' on the outside yet their personality made even the simplest of their clothes look attractive.

It's all in the mind, like you say. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Bendy Demon said:

Hmm..yes. I can see how that would work but, once a practioner understands this then wouldn't that make all the theatrics and props kinda..silly?

For example, if one want to buy a particular car, thinking and visualization is nice but nothing happens unless you pick up the classifieds and search.

Depends on the practitioner. When I first realized how it worked I was disillusioned. The model I was using at that time was rendered useless. So I looked at the more psychological aspect of it. The more I learned the better I could program my mind. One of the rules of good magic is to get your head in the right place and your feet will follow. Too many focus on the 'super power' aspect of it. Eventually they give up or realize it's a waste of time. 

4 minutes ago, Bendy Demon said:

I have met many people who were 'plain jane' on the outside yet their personality made even the simplest of their clothes look attractive.

It's all in the mind, like you say. 

Exactly. If you can learn to love yourself without arrogance. Then that's beauty. 

[ocpaul20]

Some good points here.

Also, I think many people dont actually label their beliefs into a 'system' and so when asked in a survey they say one of the offered choices or 'none'. When you have given up on the orthodox religion you were brought up with, then you search for something else and that might be bits of lots of other belief systems. It is the labelling which makes these surveys a farse I think.

[Duke Wellington]

On 1/1/2020 at 7:42 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Occultism is certainly on the rise, and these beliefs are shared by all demographics. Why it's pretty simple Christianity is becoming an archaic religion that is stagnating because of problems today that include child sexual abuse, and many other forms of criminal activities. When people lose faith in a religious beleif they in some cases revert to previously held beliefs or they experiment with new beliefs. Either way occultism can be an attractive beleif, you don't have to be member of a group, you can practice at home, and it is far more excepted today than it has ever been before.

peace

Von Ribbentrop is a controversial picture for your UM persona. Why him?

I dont think occultism is at odds with any religion, because lets face it they all have occultism present in their schools of mysticism. With the sexual abuse going on in the Catholic Church its not all Christian denominations, it just seems to be mostly that one attracting the perverts.

Maybe there are Christian fundamentalists in the Catholic Clergy who adhere to each word in the Bible including its views on sexual morality? Lets not forget, the age of consent in the Bible is when periods start not somewhere between 14 and 18 as it is in most countries. Whatever the cause is most of the problem is in Catholicism.

[Grim Reaper 6]

55 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Von Ribbentrop is a controversial picture for your UM persona. Why him?

I dont think occultism is at odds with any religion, because lets face it they all have occultism present in their schools of mysticism. With the sexual abuse going on in the Catholic Church its not all Christian denominations, it just seems to be mostly that one attracting the perverts.

Maybe there are Christian fundamentalists in the Catholic Clergy who adhere to each word in the Bible including its views on sexual morality? Lets not forget, the age of consent in the Bible is when periods start not somewhere between 14 and 18 as it is in most countries. Whatever the cause is most of the problem is in Catholicism.

First of all that photo is not of Von Ribbentrop, he was a Wehrmacht officer not SS. The photo is an unknown SS Officer no one that is famous or even known. Why I posted that photo was because someone was trying to bother me by using a similar photo because of my views of the Church, the then another member called me. Nazi, so I decided if they felt that way I would use a controversial photo to show them I don't care. 

i don't know if their are Catholic fundamentalists in the Catholic Clergy, but I do agree that in the Catholic faith there certainly is a form of occultism present, like you said it's present in almost any religous belief..

 

peace

[Duke Wellington]

55 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

First of all that photo is not of Von Ribbentrop, he was a Wehrmacht officer not SS. The photo is an unknown SS Officer no one that is famous or even known. Why I posted that photo was because someone was trying to bother me by using a similar photo because of my views of the Church, the then another member called me. Nazi, so I decided if they felt that way I would use a controversial photo to show them I don't care. 

i don't know if their are Catholic fundamentalists in the Catholic Clergy, but I do agree that in the Catholic faith there certainly is a form of occultism present, like you said it's present in almost any religous belief..

peace

In that case he looks remarkably identical to him https://www.onthisday.com/people/joachim-von-ribbentrop. For Russians he is one of the most hatred people of all time and no doubt you will draw attention from them over it. They will think you are making a statement about them and their country.

The problem with religious occultism is they believe in living a life that complies with their religious values, not the values of the society in which they live. They dont obey societal laws in their search to become more moral from a religious perspective.

Edited January 10, 2020 by RabidMongoose

[Saru]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

The photo is an unknown SS Officer no one that is famous or even known.

A Google image search suggests that it's Max Hansen - a colonel in the Wafen-SS:

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Max_Hansen

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Saru said:

A Google image search suggests that it's Max Hansen - a colonel in the Wafen-SS:

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Max_Hansen

Thanks for the information, I just picked the photo from a number of non-descript photos on line. It didnt have a name or any of the other information listed, it appears the guy was one hell of soldier thought, Nazi or not.

Thanks and peace

Edited January 10, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

In that case he looks remarkably identical to him https://www.onthisday.com/people/joachim-von-ribbentrop. For Russians he is one of the most hatred people of all time and no doubt you will draw attention from them over it. They will think you are making a statement about them and their country.

The problem with religious occultism is they believe in living a life that complies with their religious values, not the values of the society in which they live. They dont obey societal laws in their search to become more moral from a religious perspective.

Yea there is a similarity, but that's where it ends, if you look at Suras post he somehow identified who the photo was of. As far as the other topic in your post,  I am not well versed in religious occultism, so I will take your word for it. 

peace

Edited January 10, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Saru said:

A Google image search suggests that it's Max Hansen - a colonel in the Wafen-SS:

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Max_Hansen

The similarity is astonishing.

He could have worked as a double.

[HollyDolly]

Well occultism does have different faces, and it's not just in the west,but around the world. And in all cultures, you have both good magic and black magic.people who are witches or pagans who help and  those who seek to harm others. Me, I'm Catholic, and there are various works by   people like  St.Teresa of Avila, St.John of he Cross, St.Thomas Aquinas and others who  one can turn to etc. People who turn to these alternatives aren't bad people, but   to run around as some of them do spouting off about the "goddess" this that or the other things must get annoying to those whose families have practiced these beliefs for centuries. And when these  so called pagans, wiccans or whateveer get bored with it, they will chase after some other new spiritual flavour. Me, I prefer what I have learned from my own faith, and as the Cathars, whom the church said were heritics, it is our goal to  free ourselves of  the material world and to work towards reuniting the soul with the Good God in heaven, they believed the Demiurge, or Satan created the material world and the bodies we inhabit. You can always google their beliefs. But they are more in line  with me in that respect.I have relatives in the Church who were priests and nuns, probably even back in the Middle Ages, and  certainly there must have been some attraction to give up the ability to marry and have kids,etc.