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ocpaul20

Mars - The current water theory

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fred_mc
Posted (edited)

The following is a phase diagram for water. It shows at which pressures and temperatures that water can exist in solid form as ice (s), in liquid form (l), and in gas form as water vapour (v).

As can be seen, the pressure needs to be above 0.006 atmospheres for water to exist in liquid form. The average pressure on Mars is 0.006-0.007 atmospheres. That is just on the edge. My interpretation of this is that it would barely be possible for water to exist in liquid form on Mars but the temperature would have to be more or less exactly 0.01 C, which would only occur close to the equator on Mars I think, and only during a few seconds of the day, since the temperature varies widely during a day on Mars due to that there is no atmosphere to hold on to an atmosphere. Also, it would have to be a day of above average pressure on that place on Mars. However, phase transitions take some time, and I don't think that the temperature will stay at exactly 0.01 C long enough, so in practise I think water can't exist in liquid form anyway, it would probably go pretty much directly between ice and vapour also at these very specific conditions.

However, I have read that if the water is salty, it would change the diagram below in such a way so that the water could actually exist in liquid form on Mars during a brief period of time. However, also then I think it would require temperatures and pressures that would only exist for a very short time period but at least it might be possible.

 

CNX_UPhysics_18_05_PhaseDiag.jpg.66595a2c4a5928339851b5b570b04721.jpg

Edited by fred_mc

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ocpaul20

Yes, I understand the science on Earth as presented here and I am not saying the science is wrong. The problem is, I look at these photos (which scientists use to determine things about Mars) and I see what maybe evidence for liquid flowing. There are obviously other scientists who also think there is something which needs to be investigated further as I posted in the opening post. When something we understand in science does not fit in with the current theory what happens? We investigate what is happening, dont we? Shutting down the discussion just because "it cannot happen" is not good science.

You need to give it up already. You are rapidly losing credibility.

According to some, I dont have any credibility on here anyway, so what is there to lose? It is unlikely I am alone in these thoughts and anyway....why are you trying to shut down the discussion on these images?

Your first low-resolution picture could be the way wind has blown sand mounds, it could be hot geezers releasing steam, or it could be nothing being mistaken as something because of the low-resolution. Your second could be the way the dirt has been blown across rocks, its hard to tell because of the low-resolution. Except during the middle of the day, at the height of summer, on the equator, then the conditions do not arise for liquid water to exist.

wind blown sand mounds - The 'streams' do not appear to be coming off the top of the cliff, so no, this is unlikely.

hot geysers releasing steam - which would suggest there was plenty of water underground. We have not seen volcanic action or evidence of heat at the surface, so this is unlikely also. Thos 'streams' are pretty impressive in size. Look at the resolution I posted of the image.

nothing mistaken for something - yes it could. That is what I am asking for, a discussion on what may be being shown in these images. I think it looks like evidence for water both huge amounts underground and flowing on the surface recently.

the way the dirt has been blown across rocks - This, for me, is a stretch for the imagination. What would make darker coloured 'dirt' blow into these patterns which look as if it is past flowing water? What about the indentation marked in that dirt then?

 

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ocpaul20

No...I didn't think RabidMongoose would come back to to this thread and come up with some other unlikely causes to explain this liquid.

And we still have not established whether these 'water grooves cut into the rock' are supposed to be in the post #1 image or the post #10 image.

I just have to assume that this is a vague desperate attempt at an explanation.

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Weitter Duckss

To scientists who study Mars, the oxygen story is curiously similar to that of methane. Methane is constantly in the air inside Gale Crater in such small quantities (0.00000004% on average) that it’s barely discernable even by the most sensitive instruments on Mars. Nov. 12, 2019 „With Mars Methane Mystery Unsolved, Curiosity Serves Scientists a New One: Oxygen

„The Curiosity rover has documented seasonal fluctuations of atmospheric methane levels on Mars. These fluctuations peaked at the end of the Martian summer at 0.6 parts per billion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Methane_radical_reactions

The geological composition of the Mars surface: Mars is a terrestrial planet, consisting of the minerals of silicon and oxygen, metals and other elements that usually form rocks. The plagioclase feldspar NaAlSi3O8 to CaAl2Si2O8; pyroxenes are silicon-aluminium oxides with Ca, Na, Fe, Mg, Zn, Mn, Li replaced with Si and Al; hematite Fe2O3, olivine (Mg+2, Fe+2)2SiO4; Fe3O4 .. Wikipedia)

The lack of H2

The chemical composition of its atmosphere is:
carbon-dioxide 95,97%;
argon 1,93%;
nitrogen 1,89%;
oxygen 0,146%;
carbon-monoxide 0,0557%,
which in total makes 99,9917% of the elements and compounds, present in its atmosphere.

Pictures are like divination from the grounds of coffee. Grounds of coffee is dry as gunpowder, but who wants it: see the water, ET, the Virgin Mary ...

  • Haha 1

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tmcom
On 1/19/2020 at 7:11 PM, ocpaul20 said:

No...I didn't think RabidMongoose would come back to to this thread and come up with some other unlikely causes to explain this liquid.

And we still have not established whether these 'water grooves cut into the rock' are supposed to be in the post #1 image or the post #10 image.

I just have to assume that this is a vague desperate attempt at an explanation.

Yes, some get nervous, that their NASA isn't lying idea may lose ground, or l will show my best discoveries and really p**** the faithful off, (ok, here is one, salty??? Depends on whether this came from a spring or somewhere else, lol.

mpMXv3l.jpg

On 1/25/2020 at 9:26 AM, Weitter Duckss said:

To scientists who study Mars, the oxygen story is curiously similar to that of methane. Methane is constantly in the air inside Gale Crater in such small quantities (0.00000004% on average) that it’s barely discernable even by the most sensitive instruments on Mars. Nov. 12, 2019 „With Mars Methane Mystery Unsolved, Curiosity Serves Scientists a New One: Oxygen

„The Curiosity rover has documented seasonal fluctuations of atmospheric methane levels on Mars. These fluctuations peaked at the end of the Martian summer at 0.6 parts per billion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane#Methane_radical_reactions

The geological composition of the Mars surface: Mars is a terrestrial planet, consisting of the minerals of silicon and oxygen, metals and other elements that usually form rocks. The plagioclase feldspar NaAlSi3O8 to CaAl2Si2O8; pyroxenes are silicon-aluminium oxides with Ca, Na, Fe, Mg, Zn, Mn, Li replaced with Si and Al; hematite Fe2O3, olivine (Mg+2, Fe+2)2SiO4; Fe3O4 .. Wikipedia)

The lack of H2

The chemical composition of its atmosphere is:
carbon-dioxide 95,97%;
argon 1,93%;
nitrogen 1,89%;
oxygen 0,146%;
carbon-monoxide 0,0557%,
which in total makes 99,9917% of the elements and compounds, present in its atmosphere.

Pictures are like divination from the grounds of coffee. Grounds of coffee is dry as gunpowder, but who wants it: see the water, ET, the Virgin Mary ...

True, "See Mars being the only planet in our solar system with a disappearing atmosphere", (Viking 1977 third one, Hubble first)!

v7NSjVv.jpg

^_^

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