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Still Waters

Mystery pneumonia virus (COVID-2019) in China

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Raptor Witness

Coronavirus: China has quarantined 50 million people. Experts worry that might backfire LA TimesJAN. 28, 2020

“It will provoke fear and panic, and people will not come into the hospital, and so you’ll drive the epidemic underground,” said Gostin, a Georgetown University law professor. “You might even amplify the epidemic.”

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I think the theory of a possible “over reaction” has merit, especially when you have Premier Xi calling the virus a “demon” in a secular country.

Like the rats and fleas who carried the Black Death from port city to city in ships, the Chinese are forced to ask some tough questions about transportation.

It’s true that in The End of the story of Angels vs. “Demons,” all men will be forced to choose a human government vs. something brand new, by force.

In the story of my Father’s, those who choose the human alternative, will perish. So to an extent, perhaps Premier Xi is simply trying to speak truth to a perceived power, which he cannot begin to comprehend, much less control.

 

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Manwon Lender
4 minutes ago, and then said:

I wonder where the connection occurred?

 

Yep... if hosts can begin to shed virus as soon as they acquire it, bad times ahead.  I don't think we have any idea just how far it has spread yet.  I don't trust China's record in handling these situations.  The urgency to build two hospitals in a matter of days says a lot about how seriously they seem to be thinking it will be.  

Yea they call them Hospitals but in reality, they are nothing more than places to Quarantine centers. Since there is no real treatment except supportive care there Quarantining the ill is the best way to slow the spread of the Virus.

Peace

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Raptor Witness

My physician actually told me that the virus could very easily have been man-made, which surprised me.

I argued that surely a geneticist could determine this, but I wonder if perhaps the virus could speak to U.S.?

Also, for those who might not have seen him yet, Ben Kavanaugh has been interesting to watch, as he navigates the city of Wuhan as an Irish expatriate teacher.

Also, here’s someone managing to speak truth to power about China’s handling of this crisis. WARNING..... you will quickly understand why this virus isn’t stopping anytime soon.

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Eldorado

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Raptor Witness

The coronavirus outbreak, which has killed 170 people and infected thousands across mainland China, has now spread to every one of the country's 31 provinces.

Perhaps the most alarming item in this broadcast, is the revelation that medical supplies are now running low across China.


At the 8:00 minute mark.

Edited by Raptor Witness
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Raptor Witness

What is really going on, is that China doesn't have the resources to deal with the outbreak in Hubei Province, so family members of the sick are trying to care for the ill, mostly at home, told by the authorities in the hospitals that they'll have to wait. They are rapidly losing control of this epidemic.

These are early days, folks ... and here's the underlying key ... they've already run out of test kits in some areas, so accurate numbers of the infected aren't even being reported anymore ...

Tears, fear and panic grip China as coronavirus spreads - Los Angeles Times ,1-28-2020

Quote

 

...  China’s virus war is grim. Silent cities sit in a white winter smog that blots out the sky, their silent, empty streets contrasting with the crowded hospitals where doctors and nurses break down because they lack equipment or rooms for the patients squeezed outside their doors...

... Online, desperate posts sprout up daily from people begging for help because sick family members are not being admitted into hospitals ...

... sick family members say they are unable to receive diagnostic tests or secure hospital space for their relatives, even when doctors tell them they are likely infected with the new virus ...

 

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Raptor Witness
On 1/20/2020 at 2:20 PM, Raptor Witness said:

Bacterial Pneumonia Caused Most Deaths in 1918 Influenza Pandemic -  Implications for Future Pandemic Planning - NIH August 19, 2008

The majority of deaths during the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 were not caused by the influenza virus acting alone, report researchers from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health. Instead, most victims succumbed to bacterial pneumonia following influenza virus infection.

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This is the most interesting, because previous studies that I had read suggested that cytokine reactions or “storms” were the cause of most of the deaths, or an overreaction by the body to the virus, leading to the lungs filling up with fluid.

Which then begs the question, should we all receive bacterial pneumonia shots now, regardless of our age, or might that increase the likelihood of a cytokine reaction?

If this study is correct, you may still have time to get vaccinated for the resulting bacterial infection that can occur following a viral lung infection.  My physician agreed that it wouldn't hurt to be covered against a range of bacteria, since there's no vaccination against the virus, itself. I got vaccinated for pneumonia, myself, 2 days ago.

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Raptor Witness

6,000 passengers stuck on cruise ship in Italy over coronavirus fears - The Guardian 1-30-2020

Huge liner locked down after woman from Macau is put into isolation with fever

More than 6,000 people have been prevented from disembarking from a cruise ship in the Italian port city of Civitavecchia after the liner was placed on lockdown over two suspected cases of the deadly coronavirus.

 

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, Raptor Witness said:

If this study is correct, you may still have time to get vaccinated for the resulting bacterial infection that can occur following a viral lung infection.  My physician agreed that it wouldn't hurt to be covered against a range of bacteria, since there's no vaccination against the virus, itself. I got vaccinated for pneumonia, myself, 2 days ago.

But is the vaccine the same kind of pneumonia?

Because if it was I feel like the CDC would simply be telling everyone to get vaccinated.

It's makes no sense why they wouldn't if it would actually help.

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Raptor Witness
22 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

But is the vaccine the same kind of pneumonia?

Because if it was I feel like the CDC would simply be telling everyone to get vaccinated.

It's makes no sense why they wouldn't if it would actually help.

You raise an excellent point, and this was something that I discussed with my physician.

While we may not know exactly which bacteria were predominate in the 1918 pandemic, as a complication to the lung virus, the latest vaccine protects against 23 types of bacteria, which are most commonly associated with pneumonia in adults. So I got the PPSV23.

The goal is simply to protect the lungs as much as possible, while there is still time and the vaccine is still available.

Edited by Raptor Witness
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Raptor Witness

CDC confirms first human-to-human transmission of coronavirus in USCNBC 1-30-2019

The new patient is the spouse of the Chicago woman who brought the infection back from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the outbreak, CDC and Illinois health officials said during a press briefing. Health officials said the new patient is currently in good condition.

Public health officials are also monitoring 21 patients in Illinois for possible infections.

____________________________________________

What this means that we are now officially, off to the races. The virus is very easily transmitted from human to human, perhaps as easily as the common cold.

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Raptor Witness

*Note: You will have to register to view this website's material, but it provides a much greater view of what's actually going on, from a physicians point of view.

Ominous Data Emerge About Early Coronavirus Transmission - MedPageToday 1-29-2020

Human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus was occurring since mid-December 2019 in China, with the outbreak initially doubling in size every week, researchers found.

But the reproductive number -- the average number of people who will contract the virus from one infected person -- is also of considerable interest, as it determines how efficiently the virus can transmit among the population. Based on their data, Feng and colleagues estimated a basic reproductive number for novel coronavirus of 2.2 (95% CI 1.4-3.9), which falls into the widely reported "between 1.5 and 3" basic reproductive number for the virus.

This would put novel coronavirus on par with the 2014 Ebola West Africa outbreak, whose basic reproductive number was 2.

the mean incubation period was 5.2 days.

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Raptor Witness

The fascinating argument raised here, is that it’s possible that we could already have what are called “super carriers,” in the population, which is we saw with the SARS coronavirus. These are people who are and who may remain, generally asymptomatic, but who shed the virus for a continued period of time, until their body clears it.

This is a very unnerving turn in the course of this disease.

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DingoLingo

the World Health Organisation has now declared it a global emergency 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/world-health-organisation-declares-global-emergency-over-coronavirus/news-story/753f7e873b30f5e20d7e150dd2a9062e

and just to think.. 3 weeks ago I rewatched Steven Kings 'The Stand' :)

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Raptor Witness
44 minutes ago, DingoLingo said:

the World Health Organisation has now declared it a global emergency 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/world-health-organisation-declares-global-emergency-over-coronavirus/news-story/753f7e873b30f5e20d7e150dd2a9062e

and just to think.. 3 weeks ago I rewatched Steven Kings 'The Stand' :)

Yes, I think we can all now agree that this is not your ordinary virus.

Quote

The illness produces a range of symptoms, with about 20% of the patients developing severe illnesses, including pneumonia and respiratory failure, he said. WHO officials said it’s transmitted through human contact, in droplets through sneezing or through touching germs left on inanimate objects. Source

Looking at the trailer, I don't that that I've ever seen this movie. I was very busy at the time it was released, as I recall.

Scary plot .... and reportedly King's best seller of all time.

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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susieice

The first case confirmed of someone getting the virus without having gone to China. The patient was the husband of the woman from Chicago who became ill. This takes the number of confirmed US cases to 6.

https://6abc.com/health/1st-human-to-human-coronavirus-transmission-confirmed-in-us/5891740/?fbclid=IwAR3GkuTemEycXO9R9Fo3BLFS13jreiSkbyg1IM7SZh_Dur9zOMjsJfkwIKg

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

You raise an excellent point, and this was something that I discussed with my physician.

While we may not know exactly which bacteria were predominate in the 1918 pandemic, as a complication to the lung virus, the latest vaccine protects against 23 types of bacteria, which are most commonly associated with pneumonia in adults. So I got the PPSV23.

The goal is simply to protect the lungs as much as possible, while there is still time and the vaccine is still available.

The pneumonia shot is worthless in the case of the 2019-nCoV. The problem with the pneumonia is that it is antibiotic resistant which means the infection to the lungs is biological not bacterial. Next all the people who have died to date have had issues with their immune systems, or they have on going issues with some form of lung disease. For healthy individuals the Virus will just take  its course and they will need very little supportive hospital care, and recovery will be made in about the same time as a case of the Flu. Also not everyone infected by this Virus will catch pneumonia, again that is based upon your personal health. Another thing many people don't understand is what is meant when the Virus is called Airborne. 

All this means is that if you are in closed Space with an infected person and they cough or sneeze on or toward you, you can become infected. Currently according to the CDC coughing or sneezing in closed area can travel outward 7 ft from the infected person. However, outdoors, due to wind and other environmental facts that distance is greatly reduced. Another factor you need to take into consideration is that this Virus can survive outside the human body on surfaces for up to 5 days. This is because the Virus is cloaked in a mucus membrane that protects it from environmental factors.

So areas where infected people are being treated or have stayed must be decontamined on a regular basis with a strong anti-biological disinfectant. There  are three things that will stop infection, one is a good biological grade surgical mask, that is fitted correctly. However the mask alone is kinda worthless, because you can still be infected if vapor droplets enter the mucus membrane of your eyes. So you also need wrap around eye protection or a face shield. So with a properly fit biological grade mask, and eye protection you are safe from infection if someone near your is coughing or sneezing. 

However, another thing you must understand is Alcohol based hand sanitizers will not kill the Virus on your hands. The only way to disinfect your skin is by scrubbing with Soap and warm water. Next the incubation period for this infection is 2 to 14 days, and at some point during that time without showing any symptoms the infected person begins to shed the Virus. At this point shredding is confined to touched surfaces unless there is coughing or sneezing during that period. Currently a chance of infection in the United States is very very low.

However it is impossible to know what the near future may bring, so if you have concerns the time to act is now, not after the Virus is on the move across this Nation.

Peace

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Raptor Witness

After reading the 2008 NIH study, my physician didn’t argue with me, about getting the pneumonia shot, in case the coronavirus goes pandemic. Before this she said I didn’t need one until I was 65 years old.

Do you want to see my Band-Aid?

So who am I going to pay more attention to ...?

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spartan max2
14 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The pneumonia shot is worthless in the case of the 2019-nCoV. The problem with the pneumonia is that it is antibiotic resistant which means the infection to the lungs is biological not bacterial. Next all the people who have died to date have had issues with their immune systems, or they have on going issues with some form of lung disease. For healthy individuals the Virus will just take  its course and they will need very little supportive hospital care, and recovery will be made in about the same time as a case of the Flu. Also not everyone infected by this Virus will catch pneumonia, again that is based upon your personal health. Another thing many people don't understand is what is meant when the Virus is called Airborne. 

All this means is that if you are in closed Space with an infected person and they cough or sneeze on or toward you, you can become infected. Currently according to the CDC coughing or sneezing in closed area can travel outward 7 ft from the infected person. However, outdoors, due to wind and other environmental facts that distance is greatly reduced. Another factor you need to take into consideration is that this Virus can survive outside the human body on surfaces for up to 5 days. This is because the Virus is cloaked in a mucus membrane that protects it from environmental factors.

So areas where infected people are being treated or have stayed must be decontamined on a regular basis with a strong anti-biological disinfectant. There  are three things that will stop infection, one is a good biological grade surgical mask, that is fitted correctly. However the mask alone is kinda worthless, because you can still be infected if vapor droplets enter the mucus membrane of your eyes. So you also need wrap around eye protection or a face shield. So with a properly fit biological grade mask, and eye protection you are safe from infection if someone near your is coughing or sneezing. 

However, another thing you must understand is Alcohol based hand sanitizers will not kill the Virus on your hands. The only way to disinfect your skin is by scrubbing with Soap and warm water. Next the incubation period for this infection is 2 to 14 days, and at some point during that time without showing any symptoms the infected person begins to shed the Virus. At this point shredding is confined to touched surfaces unless there is coughing or sneezing during that period. Currently a chance of infection in the United States is very very low.

However it is impossible to know what the near future may bring, so if you have concerns the time to act is now, not after the Virus is on the move across this Nation.

Peace

Since I'm a city employee, the public health department sent us all an email about precautions.

The main it basically said to do is to not touch your eyes, mouth, or nose and to keep washing your hands. Which is probably a good habit for us to do at all times anyways lol

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Manwon Lender
35 minutes ago, susieice said:

The first case confirmed of someone getting the virus without having gone to China. The patient was the husband of the woman from Chicago who became ill. This takes the number of confirmed US cases to 6.

https://6abc.com/health/1st-human-to-human-coronavirus-transmission-confirmed-in-us/5891740/?fbclid=IwAR3GkuTemEycXO9R9Fo3BLFS13jreiSkbyg1IM7SZh_Dur9zOMjsJfkwIKg

Actually  the first case was not in the USA, it was in Germany and it was reported on the 28th of Jan. This case is the first reported in the US, and it isn't really that hard to understand, he may have been infected by his wife before she was quarantined, or he may not have followed the proper procedures after visiting her. Either way the most important thing is they know where and how he was infected so there isn't a loose canon roaming around out there somewhere.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender

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spartan max2
3 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

After reading the 2008 NIH study, my physician didn’t argue with me, about getting the pneumonia shot, in case the coronavirus goes pandemic. Before this she said I didn’t need one until I was 65 years old.

Do you want to see my Band-Aid?

So who am I going to pay more attention to ...?

To be fair, I don't know if any physician is really going to argue with someone about getting any vaccine.

Vaccines never hurt, and if it makes the patient feel safer why not.

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Manwon Lender
3 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

After reading the 2008 NIH study, my physician didn’t argue with me, about getting the pneumonia shot, in case the coronavirus goes pandemic. Before this she said I didn’t need one until I was 65 years old.

Do you want to see my Band-Aid?

So who am I going to pay more attention to ...?

I would recommend that you listen to your Doctor, but I would also tell you that the Sky isn't falling and there us no need for anyone to panic. The simple Flu Virus kills more people every year than any recorded Coronavirus outbreak ever has. When you keep that in mind it is not really the out of control monster some people are making it out to be.

As far as you making claims that you predicted this Virus and it is apocalyptic, that's very interesting and while I am certain you beleive it, I certainly don't and I doubt many other forum members do either. But no disrespect intended I am only clearly stating my personal opinion on this subject.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

To be fair, I don't know if any physician is really going to argue with someone about getting any vaccine.

Vaccines never hurt, and if it makes the patient feel safer why not.

That is certainly right, and while they are making the patient feel comfortable it's ok to make a little money too.:yes:

Peace.

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Raptor Witness
19 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

To be fair, I don't know if any physician is really going to argue with someone about getting any vaccine.

Vaccines never hurt, and if it makes the patient feel safer why not.

To be clear, once you go into Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) from a viral lung infection, doctors begin giving you antibiotics, to help heal the lungs ..... NOT to help with the virus, which is usually decreasing by that point, but the resulting bacteria that are about to finish you off.

Your lungs swell up, and fill with fluid, they can't get rid of the dead cells and tissue as they normally would, and it leads to a secondary infection, due to the bacteria.

The whole point of getting a pneumonia vaccination, is to help stop a possible ARDS in the first place, regardless of how it begins.

This guy got the flu first, which attacked his lungs, then skip to the 1:38 minute mark, where he's treated with antibiotics for the bacteria. - MAYO Clinic

 

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Manwon Lender
16 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Since I'm a city employee, the public health department sent us all an email about precautions.

The main it basically said to do is to not touch your eyes, mouth, or nose and to keep washing your hands. Which is probably a good habit for us to do at all times anyways lol

Enough can never be said about washing your hands, all most all Viral infections we get are transmitted to us by something on our hands,, As far as not wearing a mask at this time goes, in the USA there really isn't a need to do so. As far as not touching your eyes, nose or mouth with dirty hands, that's something we should all do even if there are no Viral infections going around, that is just good hygiene.

Peace

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