Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Manwon Lender

Catholic Church hid Nazi / SS War Criminals

151 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Manwon Lender
8 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

I also have to consider this they were killing the Jewish people in their country as well as their surrounding countries then even started to at at times, targetted Christians and those who helped the Jewish people but yet the Catholics were not one of their targets, why! I think it was because the Catholic churches were safe havens for them and there was more of an inside bond than we'd like to think. We cant deny the fact that "Roman's and then the Roman Catholics" were against the Jewish religion once, sometimes old habits die hard, just a thought.

Your comments are correct and that is why the Jewish organisations certainly don't agree that the Catholic Church really helped Jews during the Holocuast. In fact while the Vatican did help some Italian Jews it turned a blind eye to the mass muders of millions Jews outside of Italy and wouldn't even denounce it publicly. Hopeful in March when the Vatjcan releases the documents concerning WWII they won't be redacted or incomplete. Hopefully they will be honest and admit their actions during the WWII, and the Holocuast. 

Peace, and thanks for you help, your a tough customer, keep yourself strong and deal with PTSD the same way and those problems will not be able to hurt you so much in the future. You certainly have all the strength needed to kick PTSD in the butt and make it run for cover.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jujo-jo
5 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

It was a period of World War, the Germans were attempting to kill pretty much everyone who opposed them, even Catholics.  However, the Catholic Church as an entity had officially declared neutrality.

At some point or another, across Europe I am sure the vast majority of desperate civilians, and probably a good measure of military personnel would have wandered into a church at some point hoping it would be a place of refuge.  Not sure most would have found much comfort there at the time.

The point I think most people are making is not that this sort of thing went on, and yes I am sure the Catholic church did help some Nazi's, it's that both you and Manwon Lender seem to see this as the be all and end all of atrocity, and yet we have much more compelling evidence, on a much larger scale of most of the so called civilised nations in the world doing exactly the same thing. 

lol No, not really. Probably just trying to get to the bottom of the questions that still remain on the subject. I know I'm wondering if they'll be a repeated event in one form or another.

And I can not understand why the Catholic church wouldn't have stepped in to save the Jewish people but yet saved a handful of nazi's that we do know about, and I wonder what else went on, has been going on and going on now that we dont know.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

It was a period of World War, the Germans were attempting to kill pretty much everyone who opposed them, even Catholics.  However, the Catholic Church as an entity had officially declared neutrality.

At some point or another, across Europe I am sure the vast majority of desperate civilians, and probably a good measure of military personnel would have wandered into a church at some point hoping it would be a place of refuge.  Not sure most would have found much comfort there at the time.

The point I think most people are making is not that this sort of thing went on, and yes I am sure the Catholic church did help some Nazi's, it's that both you and Manwon Lender seem to see this as the be all and end all of atrocity, and yet we have much more compelling evidence, on a much larger scale of most of the so called civilised nations in the world doing exactly the same thing. 

Hello and thanks for your post. Have you read any of the links I posted? The Catholic Church helped the top criminals involved in the final solution to escape Justice. This wasn't by chance it was intentional, I have posted links backing up my comments, however, others like yourself aren't doing the same thing to prove yours and their points. They claim I am attacking the Church and some of these people attacking my statements are true academics. The big problem here is known as Denialism, do you know what that word means? Here is a break down of what people are doing to attack my points in this thread.

In the psychology of human behaviordenialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truthDenialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality.

peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jujo-jo
35 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Your comments are correct and that is why the Jewish organisations certainly don't agree that the Catholic Church really helped Jews during the Holocuast. In fact while the Vatican did help some Italian Jews it turned a blind eye to the mass muders of millions Jews outside of Italy and wouldn't even denounce it publicly. Hopeful in March when the Vatjcan releases the documents concerning WWII they won't be redacted or incomplete. Hopefully they will be honest and admit their actions during the WWII, and the Holocuast. 

Peace, and thanks for you help, your a tough customer, keep yourself strong and deal with PTSD the same way and those problems will not be able to hurt you so much in the future. You certainly have all the strength needed to kick PTSD in the butt and make it run for cover.

I have a smile on my face and a chuckle in my tummy , Thanks! 

I am sorry but for some reason I have my doubts that they will be a 100% truthful. In the past they were supposed to come foward and tell all but did not until centuries later and I'm wondering if we got the whole story at that time. I think there's still much more behind those doors, under lock and key that we'll never know.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grey Area
1 hour ago, Jujo-jo said:

lol No, not really. Probably just trying to get to the bottom of the questions that still remain on the subject. I know I'm wondering if they'll be a repeated event in one form or another.

And I can not understand why the Catholic church wouldn't have stepped in to save the Jewish people but yet saved a handful of nazi's that we do know about, and I wonder what else went on, has been going on and going on now that we dont know.

I cannot understand why you would think they didn’t help Jews during the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grey Area
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Hello and thanks for your post. Have you read any of the links I posted? The Catholic Church helped the top criminals involved in the final solution to escape Justice. This wasn't by chance it was intentional, I have posted links backing up my comments, however, others like yourself aren't doing the same thing to prove yours and their points. They claim I am attacking the Church and some of these people attacking my statements are true academics. The big problem here is known as Denialism, do you know what that word means? Here is a break down of what people are doing to attack my points in this thread.

In the psychology of human behaviordenialism is a person's choice to deny reality as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truthDenialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality.

peace

I am not in denial of anything, I have explored the subject and of the opinion that I am sure that high ranking Nazi’s abused the system and that the possibility some members of the church helped knowingly.

This is not clear cut, the Red Cross claims it was overwhelmed and did not knowingly support Nazis to escape, the point I am making is that this was not in isolation.

If I lined up 5 murderers and you focused on one there would be a reason for this, so what is your reason for the focus on Catholicism when it was done by the US, UK, Canada, USSR?

Theres a psychology term that might fit your posting here on this subject... Obsession.

Edited by Grey Area
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skliss
6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Here is list of a few the  Nazi war criminals who were helped to escape to South America. These were the most wanted War Criminals in all of Europe and they escaped using the rat lines set up by the Catholic Church officials.

1) Adolf Eichmann - Architect of Hitler's Final Solution

2) Josef Megele - Known as the Angle of Death

3) Walter Rauff - SS Colonel who was instrumental in the building of Mobil gas chamber

4) Franz Stangl - Stangl was responsible for the Aktion euthanasia Program                   

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-the-catholic-church-sheltered-nazi-war-criminals/

The reason I am bring this up now is because the Vatican is going to release all the Vatican papers oncerming Pope Pius XII. And Bishop Alois Hudal who engineered the Rat lines for escaping High ranking War Criminals in March of this year. 

https://www.history.com/news/vatican-archives-pope-pius-xii-holocaust

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pope-pius-xii-and-the-holocaust#cries

This is not an attack on the Church,  it designed to bring the crimes to light, its no different than exposing the sexual predators hiding in Catholic Church's all ovetvthe country. The way you make it sound is the high ranking officials that were involved believed that these men deserved absolution   That is far from the truth. High ra raking members of the Church supported the Nazi cause for religious reasons and because of there own backgrounds.

Thanks for your post I appreciate your tone and your comments, however I can't agree with your view due to the evidence that suggests otherwise. I understand that people who embrace the Catholic faith will be offended by this but the Church has been hiding thiings like this for many years. Judt like the pedophiles these issues cant stay hidden forever.

Peace

 

Yes, I know what they did and why they did it. I explained it to you...you just don't like the answer. I could also go into the pedophile accusations but you were the one who jumped all over another poster for bringing in information that wasn't on topic.

It's not for the priest to decide who deserves absolution...who means it or who's lieing...the ultimate judge will be God. Their job is to assume a confession is given in good faith and do their duty from there. 

Catholics and the church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews alone. I'm not sure why you keep attacking them from only one side.

During the Holocaust, the Roman Catholic Church played a role in the rescue of hundreds of thousands of Jews from being murdered by the Nazis. Members of the Church, through lobbying of Axis officials, provision of false documents, and the hiding of people in monasteries, convents, schools, among families and the institutions of the Vatican itself, saved hundreds of thousands of Jews. The Israeli diplomat and historian Pinchas Lapide estimated the figure at between 700,000 and 860,000, although the figure is contested.[1]

The Catholic Church itself faced persecution in Hitler's Germany, and institutional German Catholic resistance to Nazism centered largely on defending the Church's own rights and institutions. Broader resistance tended to be fragmented and led by individual effort in Germany, but in every country under German occupation, priests played a major part in rescuing Jews. Aiding Jews met with severe penalty and many rescuers and would-be rescuers were killed including St Maximilian Kolbe, Giuseppe Girotti and Bernhard Lichtenberg who were sent to the concentration camps.

In the prelude to the Holocaust, Popes Pius XI and Pius XII preached against racism and war in encyclicals such as Mit brennender Sorge (1937) and Summi Pontificatus (1939). Pius XI condemned Kristallnacht and rejected the Nazi claim of racial superiority, saying instead there was only "a single human race". His successor Pius XII employed diplomacy to aid the Jews, and directed his Church to provide discreet aid. While the overall caution of his approach has been criticised by some, his 1942 Christmas radio address denounced the murder of "hundreds of thousands" of innocent people on the basis of "nationality or race" and he intervened to attempt to block Nazi deportations of Jews in various countries. When the Nazis came for Italy's Jews, some 4715 of the 5715 Jews of Rome found shelter in 150 Church institutions, 477 in the Vatican itself and he opened his Castel Gandolfo residence, which took in thousands.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skliss
6 hours ago, Jujo-jo said:

Even though preist's hold oaths, that is not a good enough excuse to do what they did, even today if and when murders go to them and confess and ask for forgiveness, most priests says nothing.... in my opinion any one else would be held accountable for their actions and I think it's called aiding and abetting as well as an obstruction of Justice.

I see what you're saying but still feel it is wrong and it makes me wonder what other crimes they are hiding or what other things they know that they should share with authorities... like trying to keep sexual abuse hidden and out of the eye of the public and not turning in someone who's done it and who intends on contuing doing it. WRONG WRONG WRONG in my book! Also if they are willing to help and cover up the worst of the worst in the world then whats next on their list for theses times, days and ages? Why do they feels it's ok to do this in the first place?

Especially with all that's happening in the world today, if they knew where a bomb was located and knew it later would be detonated they would not tell anyone and not feel even feel 1/2 accountable.

I dont see it has him attacking the church at all, I see it as a pretty good topic actually and it upsets a large number of people so why not talk about it...

So you bring up many things that have long and complicated answers. There is the sanctity of the confessional. A priest is obligated to keep this oath. But they are mistakenly thought to keep this in the face of a serious crime or serious potential future crime. This is not true. While their first obligation is to try and encourage the confessor to turn themselves in and offer to help them do that in any way, they are also obligated, by the church, to report to law enforcement serious crimes and especially crimes they think are on-going or that they have knowledge of ahead of time. Hope this clears that up.

I have to leave for class,  I'll try and address some of this later or tomorrow.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aaron2016
Posted (edited)

 

"The Catholic Church will do anything for money"

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, skliss said:

Yes, I know what they did and why they did it. I explained it to you...you just don't like the answer. I could also go into the pedophile accusations but you were the one who jumped all over another poster for bringing in information that wasn't on topic.

It's not for the priest to decide who deserves absolution...who means it or who's lieing...the ultimate judge will be God. Their job is to assume a confession is given in good faith and do their duty from there. 

Catholics and the church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews alone. I'm not sure why you keep attacking them from only one side.

During the Holocaust, the Roman Catholic Church played a role in the rescue of hundreds of thousands of Jews from being murdered by the Nazis. Members of the Church, through lobbying of Axis officials, provision of false documents, and the hiding of people in monasteries, convents, schools, among families and the institutions of the Vatican itself, saved hundreds of thousands of Jews. The Israeli diplomat and historian Pinchas Lapide estimated the figure at between 700,000 and 860,000, although the figure is contested.[1]

The Catholic Church itself faced persecution in Hitler's Germany, and institutional German Catholic resistance to Nazism centered largely on defending the Church's own rights and institutions. Broader resistance tended to be fragmented and led by individual effort in Germany, but in every country under German occupation, priests played a major part in rescuing Jews. Aiding Jews met with severe penalty and many rescuers and would-be rescuers were killed including St Maximilian Kolbe, Giuseppe Girotti and Bernhard Lichtenberg who were sent to the concentration camps.

In the prelude to the Holocaust, Popes Pius XI and Pius XII preached against racism and war in encyclicals such as Mit brennender Sorge (1937) and Summi Pontificatus (1939). Pius XI condemned Kristallnacht and rejected the Nazi claim of racial superiority, saying instead there was only "a single human race". His successor Pius XII employed diplomacy to aid the Jews, and directed his Church to provide discreet aid. While the overall caution of his approach has been criticised by some, his 1942 Christmas radio address denounced the murder of "hundreds of thousands" of innocent people on the basis of "nationality or race" and he intervened to attempt to block Nazi deportations of Jews in various countries. When the Nazis came for Italy's Jews, some 4715 of the 5715 Jews of Rome found shelter in 150 Church institutions, 477 in the Vatican itself and he opened his Castel Gandolfo residence, which took in thousands.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

I read the link you provided and it does have some good points, and the estimated figures are correctly portrayed. However it does overlook other cases where the Pope turned his back on Jews and wouldn't condem actions of the Nazi Regime where mass murder was occurring and he was completely aware that it was a fact. Your explanation of the Catholic exceptance of War Criminals because they confessed their sins is rediculous. Facts clearly show that high ranking members of the Catholic faith including Bishops and other Clergy at the Vatican supported these War Criminals due to their belief that the Final Solution was something that the Jews deserved because of their actions which caused the death of Jesus Christmor because they supported   National Socialism.

i know nothing of your back ground, however, I was raised from birth until I was around 12 years old in the Catholic Faith. During grade school I was sent to a Catholic School until the 5th grade, I was also baptised by the Catholic Church. However, I never found any comfort as a Catholic as far back as I can remember, and my affiliation with the Church ended when I was around 12 years old. So I do have a back ground with this religion, so my opinions are not based solely on a one sided view of this subject like yours are. Do you really think that it is coincidental that the most notorious War Criminals escaped Justice by using the Catholic Churches Ratlines? I can't beleive that is the case.

I respect your opinion and your thoughts on this subject, but I can't beleive you are truly convinced that the church is not complicit in these actions. So I am going to post a link lists both the negative and the positive views of Jewish Scholars it isn't a one sided view of the Catholic Churchs actions concerning the Holocuast and the Nazi final solution of the Jewish race please show me the respect of reading this link from the Jewish Virtural Library before you post again, I have already shown you the same curtesy by reading your link before I posted this.

Oh and by the way, your statement that you don't want to go into accusations about the Churches problems with pedophiles because I jumped on another member for not staying on topic isn't fair. In reality it Is also a one sided view that doesn't fairly explain why that happened, if you read the posts by both of us it becomes clear there was more to it than just getting off topic. Whether you wish to admit it or not. I am very open to a discussion where their is no mud sling or name calling, which I have attempt not to do through out this thread, but no one is perfect.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-controversy-over-the-alleged-silence-of-pope-pius-xii-in-world-war-ii

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
7 hours ago, Grey Area said:

I am not in denial of anything, I have explored the subject and of the opinion that I am sure that high ranking Nazi’s abused the system and that the possibility some members of the church helped knowingly.

This is not clear cut, the Red Cross claims it was overwhelmed and did not knowingly support Nazis to escape, the point I am making is that this was not in isolation.

If I lined up 5 murderers and you focused on one there would be a reason for this, so what is your reason for the focus on Catholicism when it was done by the US, UK, Canada, USSR?

Theres a psychology term that might fit your posting here on this subject... Obsession.

Sorry for my comments, I took your post the wrong way and I apologised for that.

peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Jujo-jo said:

I have a smile on my face and a chuckle in my tummy , Thanks! 

I am sorry but for some reason I have my doubts that they will be a 100% truthful. In the past they were supposed to come foward and tell all but did not until centuries later and I'm wondering if we got the whole story at that time. I think there's still much more behind those doors, under lock and key that we'll never know.

 

Oh I certainly agree we will never know the complete story. One reason for this is the Catholic Churches financial backing, they can afford the best lawyers to help them hide dirt under the rug, and even when the Papal documents for WWII are released in March there is no way to know if things haven't been hidden, so we will just have to wait and see.

peace.

Edited by Manwon Lender
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jujo-jo
3 hours ago, skliss said:

So you bring up many things that have long and complicated answers. There is the sanctity of the confessional. A priest is obligated to keep this oath. But they are mistakenly thought to keep this in the face of a serious crime or serious potential future crime. This is not true. While their first obligation is to try and encourage the confessor to turn themselves in and offer to help them do that in any way, they are also obligated, by the church, to report to law enforcement serious crimes and especially crimes they think are on-going or that they have knowledge of ahead of time. Hope this clears that up.

I have to leave for class,  I'll try and address some of this later or tomorrow.

Maybe, if so it's only been in the last 30 yrs. and I think a lot of them dont think this law applies to them and then there are others who feel this doesnt apply due to grandfather laws and clauses. lol Hope class serves you well tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jujo-jo
8 hours ago, Grey Area said:

I cannot understand why you would think they didn’t help Jews during the war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

Thanks for the link, I admit I  don't know much about this topic but wwii is one of my favorite topics and you hear very little about the roles the Catholic church played, when it is mentioned it is about the opposite role. We're talking about one good Pope and a handful of people here, out of how many and out of how many individual churches. From what I have come to believe is that some if not most nazi's and pro nazi citizens were Catholic.

The list of people assisnated who are mentioned in the link for helping jewish people are very few compared to the general population of the German citizens who assassinated for doing the same thing.

Quoting from the link

... although the figure is contested.[1]

The Catholic Church itself faced persecutionin Hitler's Germany, and institutional German Catholic resistance to Nazism centered largely on defending the Church's own rights and institutions. Broader resistance tended to be fragmented and led by individual effort in Germany, ...

 

Those are powerful statements all on it's own and actually says a lot. Hitler didn't allow anyone else to do that, and there was a reason.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
12 hours ago, Jujo-jo said:

Thanks for the link, I admit I  don't know much about this topic but wwii is one of my favorite topics and you hear very little about the roles the Catholic church played, when it is mentioned it is about the opposite role. We're talking about one good Pope and a handful of people here, out of how many and out of how many individual churches. From what I have come to believe is that some if not most nazi's and pro nazi citizens were Catholic.

The list of people assisnated who are mentioned in the link for helping jewish people are very few compared to the general population of the German citizens who assassinated for doing the same thing.

Quoting from the link

... although the figure is contested.[1]

The Catholic Church itself faced persecutionin Hitler's Germany, and institutional German Catholic resistance to Nazism centered largely on defending the Church's own rights and institutions. Broader resistance tended to be fragmented and led by individual effort in Germany, ...

 

Those are powerful statements all on it's own and actually says a lot. Hitler didn't allow anyone else to do that, and there was a reason.

Here's another link by Jewish groups that is more well rounded, it addresses both sides of the issue at hand, it is not one sided like the link that Grey Area supplied to you, I also supplied a link to him. But I doubt he will address the contents of it because most of these deniers can not keep an open mind on this or any other issue. 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pope-pius-xii-and-the-holocaust#cries

Peace

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
16 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

"The Catholic Church will do anything for money"

 

 

Yes they will, they will even protect pedophiles so that they don't lose Church membership because of the fallout. Which is also protecting their income. 

Peace

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aaron2016
48 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes they will, they will even protect pedophiles so that they don't lose Church membership because of the fallout. Which is also protecting their income. 

Peace

 

The Catholic Church recognizes they are sinners.  It is a work in progress.

 

sin1.png

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

The Catholic Church recognizes they are sinners.  It is a work in progress.

 

sin1.png

 

That's a good start but it doesn't mention any crimes specifically, so that is  like saying yes we simetimes do thing wrong, but we are not going to admit what We have done until forced forced to. Is that an apology or is it personal regret, either way it doesn't fix what has happened and it doesn't specify actions taken to stop it from happening again.

So if that makes you comfortable that all pedofilic priests have been identified and purged from the church it doesn't really solve anything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grey Area
16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Sorry for my comments, I took your post the wrong way and I apologised for that.

peace

I need no apology, I took no offence, just interested why the shock at what the church was doing and turning a blind eye to the rest.

The war period is fascinating in many respects.  My Grandad was in the signals and when the Hood was sunk, he claims they were possibly the first to learn of it, but they had no land lines yet and did not have the range to report it back to the U.K.  he said that they had never felt such isolation and that at that moment he was certain he was living through the apocalypse.

So it’s important to place war time Catholicism in the correct circumstance.  The Vatican sat squarely at the centre of Hitler’s closest ally in fascist Italy.  That Hitler and his madmen were catholic themselves and viewed Christianity favourably is probably the only reason a Nazi puppet did not replace the existing pope of the time.

Very uncertain and scary times, that we have the luxury of examining like we would a snow globe from comfort.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
14 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

I need no apology, I took no offence, just interested why the shock at what the church was doing and turning a blind eye to the rest.

The war period is fascinating in many respects.  My Grandad was in the signals and when the Hood was sunk, he claims they were possibly the first to learn of it, but they had no land lines yet and did not have the range to report it back to the U.K.  he said that they had never felt such isolation and that at that moment he was certain he was living through the apocalypse.

So it’s important to place war time Catholicism in the correct circumstance.  The Vatican sat squarely at the centre of Hitler’s closest ally in fascist Italy.  That Hitler and his madmen were catholic themselves and viewed Christianity favourably is probably the only reason a Nazi puppet did not replace the existing pope of the time.

Very uncertain and scary times, that we have the luxury of examining like we would a snow globe from comfort.

Yes you are certainly right, but in March 2020 when the Vatican releases all the Papal documents relating to WWII, it may be interesting. If the documents are released in their entirety it will be great, but I don't trust the Church to do that, I suspect that anything that is criminal in nature will be redacted or end up missing. This Church has been very good at keeping secrets in the past even at the expense of the welfare of church members, a case in point is the current on going scandal with Pedofiles.

Now at least they acknowledge it, but even with that said do you think they will publicly expose other Fathers who haven't been identified yet? I suspect they won't and their only punishment will be Church sponsored psychological counselling that deals with their mental disorder. Once completed they will go back to the position where they will offend again, like they have done in the past. On that last note I really hope I am wrong, but that's all they have done the past.

Again I am sorry for my pervious comments, I hope you can except my apology, because unlike many others on these forums I don't let something I have done wrong go by without doing my best to correct my comments.

peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Abaddonire
On 1/5/2020 at 3:24 AM, Manwon Lender said:

First let say there is nothing Libelous or dishonest in my statements I  am sorry if you are Catholic and offended by my accusations against the Vatican. But these are not accusations they are facts, there are many Catholic Clergyman involved in the Ratlines. Bishop Hudal only started the escape route through Italy and Croatia. As this thread progress more and more Church officials will come to light. In fact the line could possible lead to the Pope himself. 

As far as no corroboration, what I have listed is only the top of the iceberg. I suspect you are aware that these events occurred, if your not then sit back and you will learn. Because all the names I have posted concerning War Criminals did use the Ratline to escape to South America. The Catholic Clergy and European Red Cross members named were also involved.

Peace

Yeah, right. 

Simply put, it is a matter of historical fact that the RCC facilitated the escape of various nazis. I have no understanding why it might be that people are unaware of this reality, or continue to deny it. RCC is somehow squeaky clean and beyond reproach? Ask the thousands of concealed abuse victims, they might have a different view. And the RCC continues to cover that crap up.

RCC only cares about itself, and the loot it can bilk out of the faithful. Nothing else matters to them. 

As a schoolkid, I was aware, with my peers, of exactly what was happening. As kids, we all said "rather him than me". A matter of personal shame for me all these decades later. I should have stood up.

But in those days, the RCC had power now lost, and political influence, now lost. At that time, however, RCC power was a real influence in the world at large. and it knew how to use and abuse that power.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aaron2016
4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

when the Vatican releases all the Papal documents relating to WWII, it may be interesting. If the documents are released in their entirety it will be great,

 

It may turn out like this.  ;)

 

Releasing documents to the public.

 

 

 

Edited by Aaron2016
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, Abaddonire said:

Yeah, right. 

Simply put, it is a matter of historical fact that the RCC facilitated the escape of various nazis. I have no understanding why it might be that people are unaware of this reality, or continue to deny it. RCC is somehow squeaky clean and beyond reproach? Ask the thousands of concealed abuse victims, they might have a different view. And the RCC continues to cover that crap up.

RCC only cares about itself, and the loot it can bilk out of the faithful. Nothing else matters to them. 

As a schoolkid, I was aware, with my peers, of exactly what was happening. As kids, we all said "rather him than me". A matter of personal shame for me all these decades later. I should have stood up.

But in those days, the RCC had power now lost, and political influence, now lost. At that time, however, RCC power was a real influence in the world at large. and it knew how to use and abuse that power.

 

Thanks for your post, have you read some of the other posts in this thread? People are literally attacking me and trying to make me stop this thread, hell they have even gone the moderators to try and get this thread shut down.:D They all claim they are not Catholics, they claim that I am trying to attack the church for no other reason accept that I hate the Church. I don't hate the Church, I don't even hate the people who committed these crimes. I just think that enough is enough and the crimes should be exposed, these crimes along with the Pedophilic Preists have been denied and hidenfar too long. In March of this year, the Vatican is going to release all the Vatican files from the 1930s until the late 1940s which will cover all of World War 2. 

These files will include personal files and other papers that show where Pope Pius XII stood on the Nazi Catholics, on Jews, and his thoughts on helping the most notorious War Criminals escape Justice during WWII. If you would please look in on this thread once in a while and add to it, I would really appreciate it. To date I only have one other person who is willing to help me with these attacks and add to the thread. I am a pretty strong fellow, whether anyone helps or not I am not going to let this go it's just not my nature to do so and it's against my integrity to do so. 

Thanks for your post and any future information you can add.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Habitat

this church/Nazi stuff is old news, without explanation for why it has been dredged up again, it just looks like an attempt to push an agenda, it is certainly no mystery that it happened.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

 

It may turn out like this.  ;)

 

Releasing documents to the public.

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

this church/Nazi stuff is old news, without explanation for why it has been dredged up again, it just looks like an attempt to push an agenda, it is certainly no mystery that it happened.

Then why are you so aggressively opposed to it? I know it happened your not telling me anything I don't know. But I will tell you why this is being brought up now, in March  by Papal order from the seed in the Vatican all paper work pertaining to this subject is going to be released covering the 1930s to the late 1940s. I started this thread to get a head start on this release of information. You see the Pope, Pope Pius XII is an embarrassment to the church. That's why the current Pope is going to clear this up once and for all.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.