In The Beginning

[docyabut2]

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab83

all the beliefs in the beginning.

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSIndex.html

Edited February 8, 2020 by docyabut2

[larryp]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:05 PM, Paranoid Android said:

 Like you said, God didn't even create the sun until day 4, and yet every day ends with, "And there was evening and there was morning, the nth day". Without a sun or moon, evening and mornings do not exist. 

Hey Pal, it doesn't exist for you. God (YHWH) doesn't need the Sun, moon, nor stars to provide Him with light. He is the source of all light; He is light!! Period.  Ps. 36: 9

[jmccr8]

10 hours ago, larryp said:

Hey Pal, it doesn't exist for you. God (YHWH) doesn't need the Sun, moon, nor stars to provide Him with light. He is the source of all light; He is light!! Period.  Ps. 36: 9

smoke and mirrors

jmccr8

[029b10]

The question regarding the origin of the universe is generally met with two potential answers, the first being that it was created based upon the "creatio ex nihilo" doctrine or that it is a "primeval atom" that has always existed based upon "ex nihilo nihil fit" dictum. 

Genesis 1:1 simply states the obvious that in the beginning the physical expanse that our universe is built upon, or built within if you will, was created.   Since the heaven and the earth were created are merely references to substance and nature of that expanse.  I am sure somebody here can explain the properties of space better than I could so in conclusion mass can't be created until there is space for it to occupy.  However, it wouldnt be nothing but speculation if the universe always existed, just expanding and collapsing.  

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by 029b10

[TashaMarie]

On 1/5/2020 at 11:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

Genesis 1 New International Version (NIV)

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Hold up. So God existed, eternally, omnipotently, timelessly, formlessly... had all the angels hanging out with him, has no beginning or end - and here he is, creating "the heavens and the earth". Heavens, as in sky? Doubtful. Jesus prays, "Our Father, who art in Heaven..." - so we can presume that this is the same Heaven as the one he creates here in Genesis.

He creates the Earth, but it's "formless" and "empty". Yet, there's a 'surface of the deep' that darkness covered, and the "Spirit of God" was "hovering over the waters". How is that "formless"? Water still has a form, and if there's a surface of anything, that suggests there's a form of something, even if it's water.

 

³ And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

There was light - but it's not until the fourth day that God creates the light sources (sun, moon, stars). There were day and night, light and dark without any source. Evening and morning - without a sun to create such a thing.

 

⁶ And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” ⁷ So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. ⁸ God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

So he's just been working with a huge blob of water this whole time? There's water above the vault? Because the vault is sky, and it's said that there's water above the vault. So there's water above the sky? Can anyone say, "Firmament"? That means that the Heavens indeed does not refer to the sky, because he's already created the Heavens and now he's taken an extra couple days to get around to creating the sky. Again, where was he residing or existing if he had to create the Heavens, and if Jesus prays to his Father "in Heaven"? What was going on before that?

 

¹⁴ And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ¹⁵ and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. ¹⁶ God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. ¹⁷ God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, ¹⁸ to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Third day, he made the land and the vegetation. Nothing real weird about that bit, so it wasn't worth noting to me. Fourth day, three days after he's created day and night, God decides it's time to create lights in the vault of the sky to give light to the earth. Did I just read that right? The "two great lights" are in the vault: in the sky. The sky is the vault between the water below (on the earth) and the water above the earth. This is where he's said to have put the lights. Not light years away from the earth. Not in orbit around the earth. WITHIN THE VAULT. As well as the stars. He "set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth". They "govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness".

Seriously. Read that one again. The sun, moon and stars are in the sky according to Genesis.

 

²⁰ And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” ²¹ So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. ²² God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” ²³ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

"...let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky" - the same place where the Sun and Moon and stars are residing. He wants the birds to fly above the earth in the same space where he's set the lights for the earth. Same sky. Same vault.

 

²⁴ And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. ²⁵ God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

²⁶ Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,^[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

²⁷ So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

It's interesting that he's determined different types of animals - that livestock are different to wild animals. As if they were actually intended and designed for human use compared to the others which would remain wild - and even then, he specifies the "creatures that move along the ground" as being another class in and of themselves.

The sixth day - the last day of creation, he creates the second round of life. He's already got the sea and sky dwellers. He's already created the vegetation needed to sustain life. Now he's filling the earth with creatures.

And to complete it all, he creates man.

Not in "my" image. Not in "my" likeness. He's quoted to have said, "in our image, in our likeness".

Hang on a sec. God is later depicted as a jealous God and claims that there is only one God, and that's him. Was he talking to his other selves, the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) - of whom only appear in the New Testament, decades after Genesis was written? Or was he talking to the angels?

This is contradicted by the very next verse: "So God created mankind in HIS own image, in the image of God he created them..."

Lolwot? He created them in our image, in his own image, and in the image of God. Which fecking one is it?!

 

²⁸ God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

²⁹ Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. ³⁰ And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

³¹ God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

"...fill the earth and subdue it." Well we certainly took that one a bit too literally, didn't we?

"I give you every green plant for food." - so he's not saying that the animals (even the livestock) are intended for food. The plants and vegetation are all meant for food, for humans, animals - "everything that has the breath of life in it". Ruling over the animals didn't seem to insinuate that we should be killing and eating them. But what of the 'wild beasts' that are clearly purely carnivorous? He just created them with teeth, claws and digestive systems that are meant for killing and eating meat - yet they're meant to survive off eggplants and broccoli?

 

And thus concludes my dissection of Chapter 1...

I apologise I have come to this thread previously but being the lazy person I am didn't feel inclined to read such a long post.  That was my mistake very interesting.

[Base12]

I just released a video on this very topic...

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Base12