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jypsijemini

In The Beginning

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Paranoid Android
15 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Thank you P.A.,

i hadn't considered that.

It sounds like I need to get some more input from my younger brother, who is a Lutheran pastor and Bible scholar on these matters and to branch out and do a bit more research independently, considering the interpretations of others and their findings like yours.

My view is quite limited because I grew up being taught to take it all as truth - that the poetry was only limited to Psalms and Song of Solomon, and that there was no myth involved whatsoever. I abandoned the faith almost a decade ago which means I'm deciphering the text now from the outside and basing it on my childhood interpretations and understanding.

Which I guess is what these forums are for - presenting an opinion and gaining insight and deeper understanding from those who know and understand it from a different perspective, so thank you for enlightening me! ^_^

Anytime, JJ. I learned so much during my years here (and I'm still learning today), good luck with your journey. It's good to have someone like your brother to seek advice from.

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Base12
On 1/5/2020 at 4:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

Genesis 1 New International Version (NIV)

The Beginning

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Hold up. So God existed, eternally, omnipotently, timelessly, formlessly... had all the angels hanging out with him, has no beginning or end - and here he is, creating "the heavens and the earth". Heavens, as in sky? Doubtful. Jesus prays, "Our Father, who art in Heaven..." - so we can presume that this is the same Heaven as the one he creates here in Genesis.

He creates the Earth, but it's "formless" and "empty". Yet, there's a 'surface of the deep' that darkness covered, and the "Spirit of God" was "hovering over the waters". How is that "formless"? Water still has a form, and if there's a surface of anything, that suggests there's a form of something, even if it's water. :hmm:

Great job on your research OP. Your biggest obstacle to solving the Genesis Creation Mystery is your use of the NIV. However, it would appear that you have seen through its deception right away so good for you!

The word 'Heavens' plural should be regarded as singular as the KJV renders it...

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

This is one of the biggest Keys that is lost on so many. Not only did you get the fact that God created only *one* of the Three Heavens, but you even correctly identified which one (where God dwells).

The rest of the Creation Account is all about God creating the other two Heavens (Macrocosm/Microcosm). I will talk about this in a moment.

Since God only created one of the Three Heavens, naturally Earth is formless and void... in the most literal sense of those words. That brings us to the 'Waters'.

Again, you picked up on the fact that the word 'Waters' doesn't sound like ordinary water as One would assume. Obviously, if our Universe hasn't been created yet, how could there be oceans, much less a planet to put them on?

The Waters in this context is *not* Earth's oceans, but rather it is a description of a Dimensional Plane. There are many names for said Plane...

  • Abyss
  • Underworld
  • Pit
  • Chaos
  • Lower Dimensions

Another word would be 'Scroll'...

Revelation 6:14 - "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places"

Science would call that Dimensional Plane a 'Membrane' or 'Brane' for short. The Bible even tells us that these dimensions can be 'curled up' like a Scroll in agreement with the latest M-Theories.

Now that we have a Dimensional Plane acting as a canvas for a painting, God in a sense begins to 'paint' His Masterpiece by hovering over it and vibrating the Chaos into a living soup of open and closed Strings (see String Theory).

The Occult World would call this, Order ab Chao. God begins to bring Order or ‘Light’ out of the Chaos. That is what the Light is in the next verse.

Now as far as the Three Heavens go, the Church has made an incorrect assumption by designating Earth’s Atmosphere and Outer Space as the other two.

As I pointed out earlier, the other Two Heavens are the Microcosm and Macrocosm as per Scripture… not my own opinion.

The Kingdom of God Within is the True Third Heaven. Again, as per the Word of God and *not* from Gnostic or New Age teachings (even though they seem to agree).

Edited by Base12
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Base12
On 1/5/2020 at 4:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

There was light - but it's not until the fourth day that God creates the light sources (sun, moon, stars). There were day and night, light and dark without any source. Evening and morning - without a sun to create such a thing. 

The Bible is like a giant puzzle that has to be put together as a whole. The answer to what the 'Light' was is given to us here...

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

See how the verse starts out the same as Genesis 1:1? John is revealing what that Light was.

The Light was the Word of God. What is that? Jesus is the Word! And that Word was eventually made flesh...

John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth"

Another Witness...

John 9:5 - "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world"

Thus the words 'Day' and 'Night' in this context are in actuality a reference to Logic verses Confusion.

Order (Day) vs. Chaos (Night).

Edited by Base12
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Base12
On 1/5/2020 at 4:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

So he's just been working with a huge blob of water this whole time? There's water above the vault? Because the vault is sky, and it's said that there's water above the vault. So there's water above the sky? :hmm: Can anyone say, "Firmament"? That means that the Heavens indeed does not refer to the sky, because he's already created the Heavens and now he's taken an extra couple days to get around to creating the sky. Again, where was he residing or existing if he had to create the Heavens, and if Jesus prays to his Father "in Heaven"? What was going on before that?

In my previous post I showed how the 'Waters' was a Two Dimensional Plane. At this point, the Third Dimension doesn't even exist yet.

This is where Quantum Physics really comes into play. Imagine taking a Two Dimensional Shape like a Square and 'extruding' it into a Three Dimensional Shape like a Cube. That is what is happening in the above verses.

The 'Volume' inside the Cube is what we call the Firmament of Space. It is our Universe. It is the Macrocosm... the Second Heaven.

The Upper Surface of the Cube is the 'Waters Above'. It is the upper most Dimensional Barrier between the Third Dimension (our Universe) and the Fourth Dimension.

The Bible calls this Dimensional Barrier the 'Sea of Glass'...

Revelation 15:2 - "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God"

The Lower Surface of the Cube is the 'Waters Below' which we already talked about. It is the Dimensional Barrier between the Third Dimension (our Universe) and the Abyss/Underworld...

mhp-0831.png

Edited by Base12
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Base12
On 1/5/2020 at 4:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

Third day, he made the land and the vegetation. Nothing real weird about that bit, so it wasn't worth noting to me.

Aw man. You just skipped a very important piece of the puzzle!

What you call 'Land' (in verses 9-10) is where Earth and its Oceans are finally created...

Genesis 1:9 - "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so"

Genesis 1:10 - "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good"

^^^

THAT is when our familiar 3D Blue Marble was made. Not in Genesis 1:1 as is wrongly assumed.

So now we have...

Heaven #1 (Where God dwells).

Heaven #2 (The Macrocosm).

Now all we need is the Microcosm. We need the 'Within' part of the equation...

Genesis 1:11 - "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so"

The Seed is the Microcosm and is our Heaven #3... the Kingdom of God 'Within'.

Luke 17:21 - "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you"

I think I will stop here for now until I hear back from you.

There is much more obviously. The most shocking discovery that I have yet to discuss here is how the entire Creation Story is in fact a form of Computer Simulation.

Although everything is '3D', nothing has been '3D Printed' yet. That comes after the Fall. For now, this is all just an FEA Analysis.

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Rlyeh
4 hours ago, Base12 said:

In my previous post I showed how the 'Waters' was a Two Dimensional Plane. At this point, the Third Dimension doesn't even exist yet.

No you asserted it was a "dimensional plane".

 

4 hours ago, Base12 said:

This is where Quantum Physics really comes into play. Imagine taking a Two Dimensional Shape like a Square and 'extruding' it into a Three Dimensional Shape like a Cube. That is what is happening in the above verses.

No it doesn't, Quantum physics has nothing to do with what you've said.

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Crikey
On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 11:48 AM, jypsijemini said:

"I give you every green plant for food." - so he's not saying that the animals (even the livestock) are intended for food. And thus concludes my dissection of Chapter1...

 

Whoa, your post was far too long and contained too many points to have to wade through, as if you fired a blunderbuss at us-
"The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Bible:Ecc 6:11)

My own "sniper" posting style is to fire just one or two carefully-aimed shots at a time. For example this verse makes it crystal clear what we can eat if we want to-

God said- "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)

 

 

 

Edited by Crikey

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onlookerofmayhem
26 minutes ago, Crikey said:

God said- "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)

So eating humans is fair game?

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Crikey
32 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Crikey said- God said- "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything" (Genesis 9:3)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So eating humans is fair game?

 

Think "free will" mate. You can eat people if you like but I don't think God would approve..:P

You can eat and drink anything else too if your stomach is as strong as Macbeths-

 

Edited by Crikey

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onlookerofmayhem
25 minutes ago, Crikey said:

You can eat people if you like but I don't think God would approve..

Well, if he gets mad at me, I'll just quote the bible. 

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Habitat
Just now, onlookerofmayhem said:

Well, if he gets mad at me, I'll just quote the bible. 

In that case you will be told it was an unauthorized biography. No excuse !

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onlookerofmayhem
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

In that case you will be told it was an unauthorized biography. No excuse !

Do you happen to know where I can find the authorized version?

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Habitat
32 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Do you happen to know where I can find the authorized version?

“Seek and you will find."

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Base12
8 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

No you asserted it was a "dimensional plane".

 

No it doesn't, Quantum physics has nothing to do with what you've said.

A Plane is Two Dimensional by nature...

mhp-0848.png

As a side note, a Stone of Emptiness would be a Point of Zero Dimensions and a Line of Confusion would be a Line of One Dimension...

mhp-0849.png

And yes, even though we are talking about basic Geometry here, these examples are meant to be related to Quantum Physics ultimately.

Something like this...

Thus, the "Bottomless" Pit literally has no bottom as there is no 'Down' direction.

I'm just presenting basic principals here.

Edited by Base12

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Base12

BTW...

Here is the Masonic Square and Compass...

Isaiah 44:13 - "The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house"

Plane is another word for Square.

Note that a Two Dimensional Plane is also called a Face or Surface...

Proverbs 8:27  - When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

 

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XenoFish

Oh boy.

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Golden Duck
14 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

So eating humans is fair game?

Leveticus - the book of the wet blanket

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Festina

Most important topic.  Late — I need to read all the posts before I post. 

 

 

 

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FFA

First off, Genesis doesn't have to be read chronologically and is not always written that way.

Genesis 10 31 These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

and now,

Genesis 11 1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

See the issue. The statement of the earth being on language occurs after the verse states the sons of Shem and had many tongues. It was written this way on purpose. 

 

Here is a interesting take on Genesis. Try reading the creation written in Genesis in a different order.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. 
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. *
15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. *
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: *
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. *
18 ¶And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. *
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. *
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. *
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. *
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. * *
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? *
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. *
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. *
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. *
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22 ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Notice verse 22. How old do you think they were when they left the Eden. Lets look in chapter 4 for their ages.

Genesis 4

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 ¶And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 ¶And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. *
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. *
19 ¶And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal–cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal–cain was Naamah. *
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt. * *
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. 
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

There are no ages. Now lets assume that the earth was flooded (This is not Noah's flood.  See Job 38,  Psalms 29, and Psalms 74.) because of the fall of man and the serpent had a hand it also. A little more detail concerning this can be found in Ezekiel 31. 

Ezekiel 31

3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 
4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. 
5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 
6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. 
12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
14 To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit. 
15 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. 
16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God.

and 

Isaiah 14

5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. *
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. * *
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! *
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? *
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
24 ¶The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

Notice back in Genesis 2:14 Eden was east of Assyria. God destroys the world and floods it (Ezekiel 31:15) more specifically, calls it the deep. Ezekile 13. It is interesting in that we see there are nations in Eden and also the statement is made "all the people of earth". Does this sound like there are only two people in Eden? No there more to it than that.

Now move back to Genesis 1:2. 

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 
6 ¶And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 
9 ¶And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. *
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw  that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 
14 ¶And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. *
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 
24 ¶And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw  that it was good.
26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. *
29 ¶And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 

OK. The flood is cleared and now man was re-made and told to refile the earth again. Notice the language of "upon the earth" or "over all the earth". A point is being made than mans domain is upon the earth. Recall the mention of hell and the pit in Ezekiel 31. 

Look at this commandment in Deuteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Theres more to this but there is a subtle message that man has no business bellow the surface.

Anyways, man was remade and no longer has access to the tree of life. Now lets look for ages.

Genesis 5

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 ¶And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: *
7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 ¶And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: *
10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 ¶And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel: *
13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 ¶And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared: *
16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 ¶And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 ¶And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: *
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters: *
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 ¶And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

The genealogies in Genesis 4 and Genesis 5 are two different groups and are not the same individuals. How far in the past was the Eden creation (the first creation), who knows?

Ill hush now. This goes on and on and there is much more to this. It is a hidden story in the Bible and further study will show Noah's flood and the tower of Babel are not separate stories but part of the creation story.

 

In summary, read Genesis 1:1 then Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:26 and then read Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3 and then Genesis 5. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by FFA

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Festina

How we went from some Gods to One LORD God. 

Genesis 1-2:3  Elohim Gods

1...”In the beginning God (s)  [translated from Elohim in the original Hebrew, is plural  for God] created”.....these are known as the EL gods

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

Confirmed plurality of the word ....

26 And [the] God (s) [Elohim] said let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

27 So God Created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female [at the same time, how could it be otherwise?] created he them.

Genesis 2:4 where the “LORD” God, Yahweh, YHVH, Jehovah enters the narrative.

4. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD [translated from the Hebrew YHVH] God made the earth and the heavens,

The Eden tale is another story  altogether.  Why would God have a male with reproductive organs if he not intend him to reproduce? It was a Fable contrived most probably by the Levite priests to put women “in their place” and create a patriarchy.  

Wiki gets this one right.  

Who is the LORD God? 

“Yahweh was the national of the kingdoms of Israel  (Samaria)  and Judah His origins reach at least to the early Iron Age and apparently to the Late Bronze, and in the oldest biblical literature, he is a storm-and warrior deity who leads the heavenly army against Israel’s enemies. At that time the Israelites worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah  and Baal [and others, Isis and Ra]   but in time El and Yahweh became conflated. 

El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into the Yahwistic. 

From the 9th into the 6th centuries BCE the Yahwistic religion separated itself from its Canaanite heritage as Yahweh became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) and of Judah, and over time the royal court and Temple in Jerusalem promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.”

By the end of the Babylonian captivity  (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

ISis ; the Egyptian goddess, RA; the Egyptian sun god and  EL; the creator gods.  ISRAEL. 

Moses was an Egyptian — Yahweh was the tribal god of the proto-Israelites.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Festina
On 1/5/2020 at 3:51 AM, Rlyeh said:

Without the creation myth, what did Jesus die for?

Perhaps the cruxifixction-fiction was a myth as well.  It never made a bit of sense to me.  “The Most High god torture and exsanguinate his only child , a perfect human, to forgive the sins of the guilty?   “Take a heffer without blemish and kill it as a sin Offering” is sorcery. Lev 1. That particular god seems demonic and chthonic.  JMO. 

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XenoFish

2a4bbd957f60fe1581b0dcd23fbbe36c.jpg

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Festina
13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

2a4bbd957f60fe1581b0dcd23fbbe36c.jpg

And here we all are...living in a world that makes no sense at all when one begins to peels the onion. Tears, tears.  A world ruled by lies, stealing and seemingly endless wars.  Anyone who denies this simply tells another lie.

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

And here we all are...living in a world that makes no sense at all when one begins to peels the onion. Tears, tears.  A world ruled by lies, stealing and seemingly endless wars.  Anyone who denies this simply tells another lie.

 

No idea what any of that has to do with what I post, but whatever.

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Mr Walker
On 2/5/2020 at 8:19 PM, Crikey said:

 

Think "free will" mate. You can eat people if you like but I don't think God would approve..:P

You can eat and drink anything else too if your stomach is as strong as Macbeths-

 

lol A very quick skim read and i thought you said " You can eat anything if your stomach is strong enough, even at Maccas." :)   

Edited by Mr Walker

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