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jypsijemini

Does Consciousness Exist Outside Of The Brain

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Black Red Devil
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jypsijemini said:

Is consciousness actually a property of the universe like gravity or light?

Posted Jun 26, 2019

The prevailing consensus in neuroscience is that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain and its metabolism. When the brain dies, the mind and consciousness of the being to whom that brain belonged ceases to exist. In other words, without a brain there can be no consciousness.

But according to the decades-long research of Dr. Peter Fenwick, a highly regarded neuropsychiatrist who has been studying the human brain, consciousness, and the phenomenon of near death experience (NDE) for 50 years, this view is incorrect. Despite initially being highly incredulous of NDEs and related phenomena, Fenwick now believes his extensive research suggests that consciousness persists after death. In fact, Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain as an inherent property of the universe itself like dark matter and dark energy or gravity.

Hence, in Fenwick’s view, the brain does not create or produce consciousness; rather, it filters it. As odd as this idea might seem at first, there are some analogies that bring the concept into sharper focus. For example, the eye filters and interprets only a very small sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum and the ear registers only a narrow range of sonic frequencies. Similarly, according to Fenwick, the brain filters and perceives only a tiny part of the cosmos’ intrinsic “consciousness.”

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/think-well/201906/does-consciousness-exist-outside-the-brain

I believe this idea also fits in well with the Unified Field Theory where, for example, entangled particles can interact with each other at greater distances.

I like the idea which sounds a lot more credible than having to pray for a God for eternal Salvation and if you don't, Hell awaits you for eternity.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I believe this idea also fits in well with the Unified Field Theory where, for example, entangled particles can interact with each other at greater distances.

And what does quantum gravity have to do with nonlocality exactly? :innocent:

I like the idea too, and I hope the thread won't be hijacked by spirituality proponents. It deserves the scientific approach used by the researcher.

Edited by sci-nerd
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joc
13 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

And what does quantum gravity have to do with nonlocality exactly? :innocent:

I like the idea too, and I hope the thread won't be hijacked by spirituality proponents. It deserves the scientific approach used by the researcher.

Quote

  according to Fenwick, the brain filters and perceives only a tiny part of the cosmos’ intrinsic “consciousness.”

The cosmos' intrinsic "conscousness"?:blink:

I'm just going with Brain causes concsiousness...Brain dies...consciousness evaporates.

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sci-nerd
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, joc said:

The cosmos' intrinsic "conscousness"?:blink:

I'm just going with Brain causes concsiousness...Brain dies...consciousness evaporates.

He's just trying to make sense of his findings, but I suspect he's looking in the wrong direction.
The universe is stone cold dead, and has no consciousness. And the stuff we got, does not survive death.

Edited by sci-nerd
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psyche101
17 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

And what does quantum gravity have to do with nonlocality exactly? :innocent:

I like the idea too, and I hope the thread won't be hijacked by spirituality proponents. It deserves the scientific approach used by the researcher.

What scientific approach? This is very much an individual view, mainstream rejects this philosophy as unsupported and anything but science.

It's just faith rehashed again by someone flashing credentials. 

Spiritual nutjobs will fit right in. He is using the same methods, the BS method.

Seriously, why not include idiots like Jonathan Wells just because they flash credentials. 

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psyche101
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

He's just trying to make sense of his findings, but I suspect he's looking in the wrong direction.
The universe is stone cold dead, and has no consciousness. And the stuff we got, does not survive death.

As far as I can tell his findings consists of about 300 NDE stories and the paperback he mashed them into.

 

Edited by psyche101
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psyche101
24 minutes ago, joc said:

The cosmos' intrinsic "conscousness"?:blink:

I know right!!

24 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm just going with Brain causes concsiousness...Brain dies...consciousness evaporates.

I can't believe this superstitious nonsense is being labelled as scientific at all. It's like ID. Faith wrapped up in scientific terms.

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sci-nerd
6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

What scientific approach? This is very much an individual view, mainstream rejects this philosophy as unsupported and anything but science.

It's just faith rehashed again by someone flashing credentials. 

Spiritual nutjobs will fit right in. He is using the same methods, the BS method.

Seriously, why not include idiots like Jonathan Wells just because they flash credentials. 

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I can't believe this superstitious nonsense is being labelled as scientific at all. It's like ID. Faith wrapped up in scientific terms.

Well, he is using the scientific method. You can't take that away from him.

We also have to be careful not to dismiss valuable information, just because it resembles something we consider superstitious.

ID does not have to be religious. We could be living in a simulation. That would certainly explain why some people who are dying, seems to be given a final narrative. A closure.

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psyche101
Just now, sci-nerd said:

Well, he is using the scientific method. You can't take that away from him.

Where?

Just now, sci-nerd said:

We also have to be careful not to dismiss valuable information, just because it resembles something we consider superstitious.

What information?

Just now, sci-nerd said:

ID does not have to be religious.

That's the nature of it.

Just now, sci-nerd said:

We could be living in a simulation. That would certainly explain why some people who are dying, seems to be given a final narrative. A closure.

That's simulation hypothesis, clearly not the favoured approach of ID proponents. Simulation is another philosophy. And you know I think it's pretty stupid too. We have discussed that before.

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Imaginarynumber1

This is just another huckster cashing in on the rubes

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psyche101
1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

This is just another huckster cashing in on the rubes

Yep. Paperback, not papers. Typical.

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Imaginarynumber1
1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Yep. Paperback, not papers. Typical.

The rubes are already lining up, i'm sure, and can't wait to add the "scientific theory" that their brains are "part of the universe".

Bunch of big brain stable geniuses.

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psyche101
Just now, Imaginarynumber1 said:

The rubes are already lining up, i'm sure, and can't wait to add the "scientific theory" that their brains are "part of the universe".

Bunch of big brain stable geniuses.

Well what they don't say in the article is that what inspired Fenwick was Moody's book.

Really scientific hey...........

 

I'll bet math was involved. Now there's paperbacks and speaking engagements. More money in paperbacks than papers when your long retired, out of the game and working outside your field.

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Dejarma

no.. if it did we would know it as a fact by now

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl
2 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Does Consciousness Exist Outside Of... (death)??

"Awareness" exists in the "outer darkness." But for how long without a Being to the rescue should be the real question.      

As far as gravity and light, they do not exist in the "outer darkness."

 

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Kittens Are Jerks

Consciousness is a by-product of the brain. Period. Furthermore, it is not true that the brain loses all functionality the moment the heart stops (parts of the brain can continue to get oxygen thus sustaining some form of consciousness). What Fenwick conveniently failes to aknowledge is that NDEs are most likely happening before the brain shuts down, or after heart and brain function start coming back online. His theories are utter rubbish.

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Dejarma
4 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

(parts of the brain can continue to get oxygen thus sustaining some form of consciousness)

allegedly 

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Is consciousness actually a property of the universe like gravity or light?

In my Advaita Vedanta (non-dualism) philosophy, Consciousness/God/Brahman is the fundamental basis of everything. The universe is a play/drama of God/Brahman in which sparks of the one fundamental consciousness experience through finite forms (like us).

It's good to see that some serious science is starting to head this way. Consciousness incarnates matter. Materialist science has it backwards.

Materialist: Matter is fundamental and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism: Consciousness is fundamental and matter is a derivative of consciousness

 

From more down-to-earth reasoning I believe the paranormal shows the existence of consciousness without a physical brain.

 

 

 

Edited by papageorge1
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Kittens Are Jerks
Just now, Dejarma said:

allegedly 

Medically and scientifically proved.

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

It's good to see that some serious science is starting to head this way. Consciousness incarnates matter. Materialist science has it backwards.

It is not serious science. It's not even science.

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joc
4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

In my Advaita Vedanta (non-dualism) philosophy, Consciousness/God/Brahman is the fundamental basis of everything. The universe is a play/drama of God/Brahman in which sparks of the one fundamental consciousness experience through finite forms (like us).

It's good to see that some serious science is starting to head this way. Consciousness incarnates matter. Materialist science has it backwards.

Materialist: Matter is fundamental and consciousness is a derivative of matter

Non-Dualism: Consciousness is fundamental and matter is a derivative of consciousness

 

From more down-to-earth reasoning I believe the paranormal shows the existence of consciousness without a physical brain.

 

 

 

And the Moon is made out of Jelly Beans...but not just any Jelly Beans...the very Jelly Beans that were sitting on Ronald Reagan's desk when he died...think on that one for awhile...

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papageorge1
5 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

It is not serious science. It's not even science.

It is serious and it is science.

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papageorge1
3 minutes ago, joc said:

And the Moon is made out of Jelly Beans...but not just any Jelly Beans...the very Jelly Beans that were sitting on Ronald Reagan's desk when he died...think on that one for awhile...

Sad the way people act when their worldview is challenged, but oh well.

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Dejarma
Just now, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Medically and scientifically proved.

 

well it's a theory.. Someone's opinion on the data.. How is it at all possible to work out what consciousness is under these conditions? 

Who determines what consciousness is 'under these circumstances' ?

So there's some sort of activity going on; like a rat twitches after shot in the head or a chicken runs around after having its head cut off!? Could that be classed as a form of consciousness? I'm not having a go, I'm just curious

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