Would Jesus condone corporal punishment?

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Of course you wouldn't. You would have left them up the tree until they learned they could avoid school, by staying up there until dad came home to climb the tree and get them down   

I wonder what cps would say about a child who never went to school, because they stayed up a tree all day   heck today a parent might get cautioned for letting a child walk to school in the rain. We had no other choice

Adults needs come first because adults have responsibilities and duties, but also because adults are the wise educated ones, and the ones with an abilty to change things.

  Children's needs should be considered but should be subordinate to adults,  family needs, and community requirements.  So as a simple thing, meal times are when it is best for adults. if a parent has to go somewhere or do something then a child may have no choice but to go with them 

Kids can be fed snacks if required but  meals should fit into parent's requirements. Same for bed times and getting up times. These need to be prioritised on the adult's needs and the the family's  overall needs.  When i got a little older I could  get quietly  out of bed and go out  to play before anyone else was awake  but i wasn't allowed to wake a parent and demand food or attention, or to wake up younger siblings.

Our parents met all our needs ( physical and psychological) We never went cold wet or hungry and were never made to feel inadequate, bad, or dumb.

  That was their prime responsibility. However the y saw no need, nor were they  able, to meet all our wants, although they did their best.  Rather the y taught us to want only what we could have, and to work towards getting what we wanted.     

Your childhood sounds very much like mine at my mothers. We weren’t allowed out of bed til a certain time, we and a strict bed time, no exceptions. Similar philosophy except mine was also neglectful and abusive, I wouldn’t say you experienced the neglect I did. We didn’t always eat consistently but when we did it was cereal for breakfast and peanut butter and jelly for lunch, dinner what ever was served and we had to eat it. No snacks ever. We had to be gone after breakfast and couldn’t come back till dark not even to use the restroom. We never were allowed to watch TV, I was allowed to read. My sister didn’t like to read. We couldn’t have friends over and we couldn’t be at friends house although she never knew what we did all day when we were gone. We never spent anytime together. I was often left to babysit for the weekend while she went on trips. I was babysitting early she would lock us in a room and I was to watch over my sister. My sister fell off the bunk bed and hurt her ankle pretty bad we had to wait till my mom showed up. My sister also had kidney stones and was writhing and screaming in pain for hours until my mom showed up. I had no way to get ahold of her let alone get out of the room or know what to do at 5 years old. I would have gone to school sick rather then stay home, school was a vacation for me. 

When we were removed from my moms care I went to my grandmothers I was 7 years old almost 8.  I was nite and day.  I ate what I want, when I wanted, I had friends, I didn’t have to go to bed at a certain time, I watched TV as much as I wanted, my grandmother cooked meals I loved she asked me what I liked to eat, I was in Girl Scouts, I was in Ballet, I went to piano lessons, I picked my own clothes, we had a swimming pool, we played board games, we had family parties all the time. We talked for hours. My grandparents loved to entertain. I had my cousins, my uncles, my aunts. My grandmother drove me to school and picked me up. I loved going everywhere with her. Later in life I even took her to see the Chippendales male strippers when she was in her 70s, she loved it. She was a blast and young at heart my friends loved her, she was encouraging, supportive, she got me all help I needed at first I was a frightened child who was very timid and scared of things. She helped me though all that. I was so grateful for her her kindness meant everything to me. I was a good kid and teenager, good student if I messed up it was minor and never repeated. I had a curfew in my teens it felt unreasonable compared to my friends so I talked to them and they lifted it. The rules were flexible and were adapted to my level of maturity and needs her parenting philosophy was make sure your kids know they are loved and cherished. My grandmother also had the philosophy that there wasn’t anything I couldn’t go to her with and talk it out, she would listen and she would rather have that then me do something stupid. 
 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Its not so much computers but mobile phones with unlimited data.

These become tools for social manipulation, bullying, sexual harassment, and placing kids under unnecessary pressures to "act like other young people"

Young people today can never escape bullying or harassment  or sexual predators (often from their own age group) because their phone is with them all the time

ps so your kids never set up fake accounts for parents and family to see and then real ones which the y used with friends and other young people?   They never hid apps and other sites from you or removed their browser history ? (How would you know if they did, anyway?) 

You were smarter than your kids when it came to social media, and  you  would always know what they were really doing?  Your boys were maybe a bit too old to have this modern experience and anyway they were boys. Girls seem to be most at risk of both psychological suffering (from bullying etc)  and sexual predation  They are more at risk from peer group pressure also,  because belonging, and being liked /accepted, is more important to them 

Well Mr. Walker this is the reason they have parents to protect and watch over them. There was a program back in the day that monitored the browsing history and you could block any site you wanted and limit access to the internet. I think I gave a choice I asked them would it be better to install it or could I trust them to be guided with integrity. They chose not to install, I had no issues had I have I would have installed it in a heart beat.

My kids didn’t have issues with bully’s on their phones, not to say some kids don’t, mine just didn’t. They didn’t have any issues belonging and were able to say no to their peers. 

No, they didn’t use the apps that hide things, and yes, all the parents knew about them too. 
 

Of course my sons had their own life and a right to privacy, as long they respected the rules and did their best at school I gave them space. 
 

We communicated openly too, they talked to me about girls, sex, drugs, pornography, all kinds of things. I am not going to say they told me everything, but the things that mattered they talked  to me. A lot of guiding takes place when you have open communication. I really have wonderful sons. 

 

Yes, there was a time I was smarter then my kids with social media those days are long gone, but there was a time. 

It seems to me that college ( due to alcohol or date rape drugs put into drinks ) seems to be the time that is more of a concern for girls and sexual predators. Sadly, I have friends with girls who have been sexually violated at college parties. It is a big problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

i will see if i can find, and play it, on my tablet   Easy peasy I will go and listen to it now before i have to get my wife her lunch.

scary stuff  but sometimes, if it wasn't scary, it would be laughable. 

IMO those students should be removed from the university and some charged  with criminal assault etc.

The rest of his points are excellent (but of course have been known for all my life ) eg his points about play and risk taking as necessary  for growth.

eg its important to have playgrounds where kids can be hurt, otherwise they don't learn how NOT to get hurt

 

9 hours ago, Paranoid Android said:

 

Hey guys, glad you two love birds are as agreeable as ever  Lol, only kidding. Anyway, I just wanted to add here an interesting point about modern child rearing. And you are both making valid points. First, random aside - definitely fence off your pools, they save lives! But back on point, at what age children should be allowed out of the house without parental supervision is an interesting topic. There's a statistic that shows that with children born before 1984 ("generation X" and older), parents allowed children out unsupervised almost universally (close to 100%) for the first time around 6-7 years. When I was that old our parents let us out to play street cricket with the neighbours (half the kids in the street played - no adults). We'd wheel out the rubbish bins for wickets and just play in the middle of the road. Everyone was a designated lookout (the older kids taught the younger kids) and first to see a car shouted and the bins got wheeled off the road and we let the car past. Meanwhile, children born after 2003 had a much broader range for when they were let out unsupervised for the first time, 6-11 years old all being represented in large numbers. 

Obviously it's the parent's choice but what is obvious also is that modern parents are more protective. The question is whether this change is a positive or negative one. Oh, as for sources for the above information, it's from the video I linked in my first post in this thread. Sheri and Mr W, you were two of the first people I thought of who would definitely find the video of interest (though I know Mr W prefers to read), even though it's a long one. It's worth it if you have the spare time to watch  

 

 

 

I watched the video, and it’s making a case against being over protective with your preteens and teens.
I only knew one parent that was overprotective and didn’t allow her kid to do anything for fear of the interesting thing that came out of this kid was she never gave up advocating for what she wanted, it seemed to inspire  and encourage her to get creative with strategies for gaining her independence. I admired this kid for it, she is determined, diligent and not afraid to prove her maturity no matter how long it takes to change her moms mind. She is always successful too. 
 

I think it depends on the kid, like the kid I share about her families overprotectiveness has turned out to be an experience that has nurtured some of her greatest strengths. She is 23 now and soon to marry the love of her life. 

 

Encouraging kids to try different things that they choose and not forcing them to stick with things if they find it isn’t for them was important to me. 
 

I let my kids try things and if they didn’t like it they could decide to move on. Being young is the time to experiment .My kids worked and drove I found it doesn’t apply to my neck of the woods on kids not wanting to drive, all the kids drove as soon as they could. They worked too as soon as they could.

  We are really fortunate to live in such diversity my kids got to experience so many cultures just in our own neighborhood. In my house, we had so many different beliefs, we discussed, we debated, we disagreed, and we learned from each other. There was no coddling, we used critical thinking and thus includes hearing all sides. 
 

I think my grandmother did an astounding job parenting me, she was in tune, a good listener, flexible and compassionate, humble, loving and kind. 
She measured my success by the depth of my happiness and was full of joy to see me so happy.

I took those same qualities and applied them under different circumstances and am pleased with the way it has worked out, My boys are happy living their best lives.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Your childhood sounds very much like mine at my mothers. We weren’t allowed out of bed til a certain time, we and a strict bed time, no exceptions. Similar philosophy except mine was also neglectful and abusive, I wouldn’t say you experienced the neglect I did. We didn’t always eat consistently but when we did it was cereal for breakfast and peanut butter and jelly for lunch, dinner what ever was served and we had to eat it. No snacks ever. We had to be gone after breakfast and couldn’t come back till dark not even to use the restroom. We never were allowed to watch TV, I was allowed to read. My sister didn’t like to read. We couldn’t have friends over and we couldn’t be at friends house although she never knew what we did all day when we were gone. We never spent anytime together. I was often left to babysit for the weekend while she went on trips. I was babysitting early she would lock us in a room and I was to watch over my sister. My sister fell off the bunk bed and hurt her ankle pretty bad we had to wait till my mom showed up. My sister also had kidney stones and was writhing and screaming in pain for hours until my mom showed up. I had no way to get ahold of her let alone get out of the room or know what to do at 5 years old. I would have gone to school sick rather then stay home, school was a vacation for me. 

When we were removed from my moms care I went to my grandmothers I was 7 years old almost 8.  I was nite and day.  I ate what I want, when I wanted, I had friends, I didn’t have to go to bed at a certain time, I watched TV as much as I wanted, my grandmother cooked meals I loved she asked me what I liked to eat, I was in Girl Scouts, I was in Ballet, I went to piano lessons, I picked my own clothes, we had a swimming pool, we played board games, we had family parties all the time. We talked for hours. My grandparents loved to entertain. I had my cousins, my uncles, my aunts. My grandmother drove me to school and picked me up. I loved going everywhere with her. Later in life I even took her to see the Chippendales male strippers when she was in her 70s, she loved it. She was a blast and young at heart my friends loved her, she was encouraging, supportive, she got me all help I needed at first I was a frightened child who was very timid and scared of things. She helped me though all that. I was so grateful for her her kindness meant everything to me. I was a good kid and teenager, good student if I messed up it was minor and never repeated. I had a curfew in my teens it felt unreasonable compared to my friends so I talked to them and they lifted it. The rules were flexible and were adapted to my level of maturity and needs her parenting philosophy was make sure your kids know they are loved and cherished. My grandmother also had the philosophy that there wasn’t anything I couldn’t go to her with and talk it out, she would listen and she would rather have that then me do something stupid. 
 

 

You were abused 

But then i think you were maybe given too much freedom.

A child of 8 or 9 should not be choosing when to go to bed although they could be negotiating some extensions.

The rest of your experience with your grandmother sounds just like my life  Not sure what your curfew hours were but teenagers also need limits on night time  activities (even if my little brother spent many nights and mornings down the jetty, or wharf, fishing when most people were sleeping  He would have been in his early teens at the time Tv didn't exist in my state  until i was about 8 (1959) and then it was very snowy and only on for limited hours every day. There  was only one channel to begin with  We watched it a bit  after  school but generally were too busy to spend too much time watching it . We were lucky to have an uncle who owned his own electronic shop and gave us a big TV at cost price. It was a 26 inch phillips, huge for its time, and it lasted for over 30 years until colour tv came in. Dad put up a 50 foot tower for the antennae so we could pick up a signal from 120 miles away  but it really only was watchable when the weather was clear and fine  Nonetheless as one of th first families in the town to have a TV we were inundated by people who wanted to watch it 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Robotic Jew]

 

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You were abused 

But then i think you were maybe given too much freedom.

A child of 8 or 9 should not be choosing when to go to bed although they could be negotiating some extensions.

The rest of your experience with your grandmother sounds just like my life  Not sure what your curfew hours were but teenagers also need limits on night time  activities (even if my little brother spent many nights and mornings down the jetty, or wharf, fishing when most people were sleeping  He would have been in his early teens at the time Tv didn't exist in my state  until i was about 8 (1959) and then it was very snowy and only on for limited hours every day. There  was only one channel to begin with  We watched it a bit  after  school but generally were too busy to spend too much time watching it . We were lucky to have an uncle who owned his own electronic shop and gave us a big TV at cost price. It was a 26 inch phillips, huge for its time, and it lasted for over 30 years until colour tv came in. Dad put up a 50 foot tower for the antennae so we could pick up a signal from 120 miles away  but it really only was watchable when the weather was clear and fine  Nonetheless as one of th first families in the town to have a TV we were inundated by people who wanted to watch it 

Being in charge of my own bedtime was not an issue, After a certain point I didn’t set a bedtime either for my kids. But, they were naturally sleepers anyway. I don’t recall any issues. Had there had been I would have intervened, come up with a constructive solution.  But, this is the choice of the parents and certainly they should choose what works best for them.  
 

Some kids need tighter rules, some don’t, it depends on the kids and their maturity level. 

[TigerBright19]

What this poor guy went through.  

 

 

 

[+Paranoid Android]

20 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

i will see if i can find, and play it, on my tablet   Easy peasy I will go and listen to it now before i have to get my wife her lunch.

scary stuff  but sometimes, if it wasn't scary, it would be laughable. 

IMO those students should be removed from the university and some charged  with criminal assault etc.

The rest of his points are excellent (but of course have been known for all my life ) eg his points about play and risk taking as necessary  for growth.

eg its important to have playgrounds where kids can be hurt, otherwise they don't learn how NOT to get hurt

 

14 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

I watched the video, and it’s making a case against being over protective with your preteens and teens.
I only knew one parent that was overprotective and didn’t allow her kid to do anything for fear of the interesting thing that came out of this kid was she never gave up advocating for what she wanted, it seemed to inspire  and encourage her to get creative with strategies for gaining her independence. I admired this kid for it, she is determined, diligent and not afraid to prove her maturity no matter how long it takes to change her moms mind. She is always successful too. 
 

I think it depends on the kid, like the kid I share about her families overprotectiveness has turned out to be an experience that has nurtured some of her greatest strengths. She is 23 now and soon to marry the love of her life. 

 

Encouraging kids to try different things that they choose and not forcing them to stick with things if they find it isn’t for them was important to me. 
 

I let my kids try things and if they didn’t like it they could decide to move on. Being young is the time to experiment .My kids worked and drove I found it doesn’t apply to my neck of the woods on kids not wanting to drive, all the kids drove as soon as they could. They worked too as soon as they could.

  We are really fortunate to live in such diversity my kids got to experience so many cultures just in our own neighborhood. In my house, we had so many different beliefs, we discussed, we debated, we disagreed, and we learned from each other. There was no coddling, we used critical thinking and thus includes hearing all sides. 
 

I think my grandmother did an astounding job parenting me, she was in tune, a good listener, flexible and compassionate, humble, loving and kind. 
She measured my success by the depth of my happiness and was full of joy to see me so happy.

I took those same qualities and applied them under different circumstances and am pleased with the way it has worked out, My boys are happy living their best lives.

Mr Walker, for practical application I tend to echo your sentiments, I don't think I'll parent any differently as a result of what I watched. The background data and statistics relating to our cultural milieu was what I found most engaging about the video.

Sheri, I have no doubt you raised awesome kids. I wasn't saying you were guilty of any overprotectiveness.  But it does very well explain why young people at university suddenly began self regulating "safe spaces" for students at times when somewhere else on campus someone was sharing an opinion that they disagree with - it just screams "I was never taught how to cope with opposition when I was younger and now it's too scary so let me into a safe space instead of confronting it". But the fact that more young kids (and particularly young girls) are committing suicide at rates higher than ever is something that society has to address. 

Is that because ALL parents are overprotective? No. But it's a statistical fact that kids are being shielded increasingly by parents, and it is having a negative trickle down effect to a minority of young people. Society may self correct this within a generation by ourselves (I can't predict how kids and teenagers today are going to be raising their children a decade or two from now), who knows?  Or maybe society will adapt and change in other unforeseen ways? I'll pick this debate up again in 20 years when the current crop of kids are raising kids of their own. Or when I have kids of my own, whichever comes first  

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Being in charge of my own bedtime was not an issue, After a certain point I didn’t set a bedtime either for my kids. But, they were naturally sleepers anyway. I don’t recall any issues. Had there had been I would have intervened, come up with a constructive solution.  But, this is the choice of the parents and certainly they should choose what works best for them.  
 

Some kids need tighter rules, some don’t, it depends on the kids and their maturity level. 

Absolutely true (not just for maturity level,  but also their nature)   Like my mother, i have only ever needed about 4 to 6 hours sleep a night As an adult i manage that myself by going to bed(sleep)  between 1 and 3 am and getting up between 6 and 8 am.,  but as a young person, or even as a younger  teenager, if i had been allowed to stay awake, up and about, until one or two every morning it would have disrupted the whole household. which included my grandmother and 3 younger children, plus a father who had to get up about 6 every morning to prepare for work 

Star trek began in 1966, when i was 15.

I can use that  to date when i was first allowed to stay up until 9.30 pm  (when the episodes finished, ) because my dad liked to watch it and was happy for me to watch it with him .

Younger than that i had to be in bed around 7.30 (Pre teen) then 8.30 (12-14)    although i was allowed to read for an hour or two before lights out. Then i read for a bit longer using a torch under my bed covers  

[+Sherapy]

43 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

 

Mr Walker, for practical application I tend to echo your sentiments, I don't think I'll parent any differently as a result of what I watched. The background data and statistics relating to our cultural milieu was what I found most engaging about the video.

Sheri, I have no doubt you raised awesome kids. I wasn't saying you were guilty of any overprotectiveness.  But it does very well explain why young people at university suddenly began self regulating "safe spaces" for students at times when somewhere else on campus someone was sharing an opinion that they disagree with - it just screams "I was never taught how to cope with opposition when I was younger and now it's too scary so let me into a safe space instead of confronting it". But the fact that more young kids (and particularly young girls) are committing suicide at rates higher than ever is something that society has to address. 

Is that because ALL parents are overprotective? No. But it's a statistical fact that kids are being shielded increasingly by parents, and it is having a negative trickle down effect to a minority of young people. Society may self correct this within a generation by ourselves (I can't predict how kids and teenagers today are going to be raising their children a decade or two from now), who knows?  Or maybe society will adapt and change in other unforeseen ways? I'll pick this debate up again in 20 years when the current crop of kids are raising kids of their own. Or when I have kids of my own, whichever comes first  

Hmmm, I have a son working on his Masters and friends with kids in University, I have not heard of this at all, let alone differing opinions leading to high rates of suicide. Not to say it isn’t going on, I have reached out to MKLSGL to get his input as he not only teaches at University but was recently become Dept. head. 

As far as safe places on campus, I will look into it more. 

I will be very interested on your views once you are in the trenches on the front line of parenting, and it is good that you are looking into this now as these are things you might face. 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Absolutely true (not just for maturity level,  but also their nature)   Like my mother, i have only ever needed about 4 to 6 hours sleep a night As an adult i manage that myself by going to bed(sleep)  between 1 and 3 am and getting up between 6 and 8 am.,  but as a young person, or even as a younger  teenager, if i had been allowed to stay awake, up and about, until one or two every morning it would have disrupted the whole household. which included my grandmother and 3 younger children, plus a father who had to get up about 6 every morning to prepare for work 

Star trek began in 1966, when i was 15.

I can use that  to date when i was first allowed to stay up until 9.30 pm  (when the episodes finished, ) because my dad liked to watch it and was happy for me to watch it with him .

Younger than that i had to be in bed around 7.30 (Pre teen) then 8.30 (12-14)    although i was allowed to read for an hour or two before lights out. Then i read for a bit longer using a torch under my bed covers  

I understand, it is important fo teach kids that they have to be mindful of the family unit, 
 

We work as a team and each does their part philosophy. 

[+Sherapy]

@Paranoid Android and @Mr Walker

 

Picking back up with safe spaces in college.

MKLSGL has been awesome in outlining  the pros and cons of safe spaces. I think the distinguishing factor is that safe spaces are addressing the opinions and behaviors that are unsolicited, judgmental, that create the need that one has to defend themselves or create a sense of not feeling safe. A college campus in and of itself doesn’t have a free pass on sharing opinions or behaviors without considering the persons position too , especially for the that are marginalized or have preexisting traumas, or feel unsafe and vulnerable. 

According to MKLSGL at their best safe spaces are intended to provide a place that is judgment free, a space where one can be vulnerable without the fear of judgment and harm this is how we work towards productive constructive debates and discussions, I think the critics of safe spaces are solely focused on their sole right to free speech this is not realistic, free speech doesn’t mean without regard for another.. I think free speech includes empathy and compassion. We can find a way to give an opinion or share ourselves that is mindful of the rights/feelings of the other person too. 
 

For ex: I recently found myself in a situation on UM, a poster send me inappropriate sexual pictures and free speech in PM, with no regard for me at all, what helped was the response  I got from the staff and friends here on UM, that fully advocated for my right to feel safe and protected. UM created this safe place for me just by being a member I can’t fathom how it would have further harmed me had I have been met with criticism suggesting I needed to just suck it up because I was just being emotionally weak and needed to be coddled from reality cuz I can’t cope and the problem is my upbringing and the problem is  I just need to get over it, cuz this is just how it is. 

Yes, you bet I am I support of safe places especially on a college campus and I commend colleges everywhere who offer this to their students and to the parents that take the time to teach their kids that free speech is a two way street. I can tell you this type of empathy and compassion helps elevate discussions and experiences to levels that create productivity and inclusivity while creating an environment that is a safe place to express oneself.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

18 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

I see we disagree on this, I don't think safe spaces are helpful in any way. At best they are just vehicles for activists to make political statements. We should be embracing the different views and ideas out in the university campus, not setting up spaces for people to run and hide from opinions. I don't care what life you've led, if you are incapable of hearing a difference of opinion (a difference of opinion that does not involve any kind of threat or violence) and you need somewhere to go because that alternative opinion is too stressful to hear - you're a poorly adjusted human being who should be demanding a refund from your parents for not giving you the skills you need to survive life. 

Remember, I'm not talking about advocating violence or anything like this. Simply being in the presence of someone stating an opinion that is different to your own is enough to warrant needing a safe space. And it's ridiculous. And that's a personal opinion that I know not everyone will share. 

Sorry, Sheri but I have to go with Android on this one. College campus should reflect society at large, not some one-sided ideological distortion of reality. We can't bring people together if we're going to set them apart for philosophical, religious, social or ideological differences. College should be a smorgasbord of variety, not everyone walking in lockstep to one drummer. As in the world at large, the opportunity is always there to exercise freedom of association and from association if one so chooses. Neither should be mandatory. No one should be subjected to abuse or marginalized because of a difference, be it social, economic, sexual, political or religious or anything that sets them apart without harming others. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Hammerclaw

[+Paranoid Android]

  

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Yes, you bet I am I support of safe places especially on a college campus and I commend colleges everywhere who offer this to their students and to the parents that take the time to teach their kids that free speech is a two way street

I see we disagree on this, I don't think safe spaces are helpful in any way. At best they are just vehicles for activists to make political statements. We should be embracing the different views and ideas out in the university campus, not setting up spaces for people to run and hide from opinions. I don't care what life you've led, if you are incapable of hearing a difference of opinion (a difference of opinion that does not involve any kind of threat or violence) and you need somewhere to go because that alternative opinion is too stressful to hear - you're a poorly adjusted human being who should be demanding a refund from your parents for not giving you the skills you need to survive life. 

Remember, I'm not talking about advocating violence or anything like this. Simply being in the presence of someone stating an opinion that is different to your own is enough to warrant needing a safe space. And it's ridiculous. And that's a personal opinion that I know not everyone will share. 

  

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

For ex: I recently found myself in a situation on UM, a poster send me inappropriate sexual pictures and free speech in PM, with no regard for me at all, what helped was the response  I got from the staff and friends here on UM, that fully advocated for my right to feel safe and protected. UM created this safe place for me just by being a member I can’t fathom how it would have further harmed me had I have been met with criticism suggesting I needed to just suck it up because I was just being emotionally weak and needed to be coddled from reality cuz I can’t cope and the problem is my upbringing and the problem is  I just need to get over it, cuz this is just how it is.

First, UM is not public property. Freedom of speech laws do not exist here the way they do in the real world. Everything in this place is governed by the rules of the site administrator. It's a private platform, and contrary to popular opinion freedom of speech is not a guaranteed right on this forum! When every single one of us signed up to this site we clicked an "I agree" button that said we agree to abide by the rules and guidelines of the forum. And a very quick glance at the rules will show that there are very clear rules regarding sending sexual images to other residents. So the person who sent you inappropriate messages was breaking the rules they agreed to when they signed up. 

So referring to UM as a "safe place" is misleading. It's just a space. It has a set of rules, and we agreed to abide by those rules and understand that if we don't follow those rules then we aren't going to be welcome here. Different sites have different rules. One of my friends used to belong to a forum that literally only had one rule - "don't post paedophilia content". Imagine the types of things you CAN post, if that's the only thing you can't? Don't like those rules, don't sign up to the forum! 

Universities are public spaces, they are governed by a different set of laws. You don't click "agree" to join a public space, the government has a set of rights already afforded to people on public spaces. I daresay that would include the right to not be subjected to sexually explicit images, just like the rules on this forum. Safe spaces are unnecessary. The only reason safe spaces exist is to protect students from ideas that they don't want to be subjected to. And in my opinion, no person on the planet needs to be shielded from a difference of opinion. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

10 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

  

I see we disagree on this, I don't think safe spaces are helpful in any way. At best they are just vehicles for activists to make political statements. We should be embracing the different views and ideas out in the university campus, not setting up spaces for people to run and hide from opinions. I don't care what life you've led, if you are incapable of hearing a difference of opinion (a difference of opinion that does not involve any kind of threat or violence) and you need somewhere to go because that alternative opinion is too stressful to hear - you're a poorly adjusted human being who should be demanding a refund from your parents for not giving you the skills you need to survive life. 

Remember, I'm not talking about advocating violence or anything like this. Simply being in the presence of someone stating an opinion that is different to your own is enough to warrant needing a safe space. And it's ridiculous. And that's a personal opinion that I know not everyone will share. 

  

First, UM is not public property. Freedom of speech laws do not exist here the way they do in the real world. Everything in this place is governed by the rules of the site administrator. It's a private platform, and contrary to popular opinion freedom of speech is not a guaranteed right on this forum! When every single one of us signed up to this site we clicked an "I agree" button that said we agree to abide by the rules and guidelines of the forum. And a very quick glance at the rules will show that there are very clear rules regarding sending sexual images to other residents. So the person who sent you inappropriate messages was breaking the rules they agreed to when they signed up. 

So referring to UM as a "safe place" is misleading. It's just a space. It has a set of rules, and we agreed to abide by those rules and understand that if we don't follow those rules then we aren't going to be welcome here. Different sites have different rules. One of my friends used to belong to a forum that literally only had one rule - "don't post paedophilia content". Imagine the types of things you CAN post, if that's the only thing you can't? Don't like those rules, don't sign up to the forum! 

Universities are public spaces, they are governed by a different set of laws. You don't click "agree" to join a public space, the government has a set of rights already afforded to people on public spaces. I daresay that would include the right to not be subjected to sexually explicit images, just like the rules on this forum. Safe spaces are unnecessary. The only reason safe spaces exist is to protect students from ideas that they don't want to be subjected to. And in my opinion, no person on the planet needs to be shielded from a difference of opinion. 

Thanks that's a great post, right to the point and very well said.

peace

[Farmer77]

12 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

Safe spaces are unnecessary.

Safe spaces are necessary for everyone. Mine is walking the bank of my local lake casting flies. Some spend time in their garages working on cars, others mowing the lawn.

You know what college kids dont have? A lawn, expendable income to buy a car let alone work on it, or free time to go and tell the world to F off for a full day while enjoying the sunshine.

While I agree that like everything the concept can and could be abused I think for the most part the media panic over it is nothing more than smoke.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Farmer77

[Grim Reaper 6]

Man this thread has totally been derailed, have you all.

peace

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Safe spaces are necessary for everyone. Mine is walking the bank of my local lake casting flies. Some spend time in their garages working on cars, others mowing the lawn.

You know what college kids dont have? A lawn, expendable income to buy a car let alone work on it, or free time to go and tell the world to F off for a full day while enjoying the sunshine.

While I agree that like everything the concept can and could be abused I think for the most part the media panic over it is nothing more than smoke.

I have to agree with you, whats considered a safe place is nothing more than a opinion based upon an individuals view, no one is wrong and no one can say anyone is wrong. Everything is based upon personal expectations and ideals concerning what is safe and what is not. Maybe I am alone in the dark here concerning my opinion on this subject, but that is my safe place to be as far as this subject is concerned.

peace

Edited January 10, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[+Paranoid Android]

19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Safe spaces are necessary for everyone. Mine is walking the bank of my local lake casting flies. Some spend time in their garages working on cars, others mowing the lawn.

You know what college kids dont have? A lawn, expendable income to buy a car let alone work on it, or free time to go and tell the world to F off for a full day while enjoying the sunshine.

While I agree that like everything the concept can and could be abused I think for the most part the media panic over it is nothing more than smoke.

Calling the bank of your river a "safe space" is not the same thing as a university institution officially declaring a section of their facility to be a safe zone. Surely you can see the difference between private practise and public policy. But I do agree that as a private concept, a safe space is not an issue, but as public policy I'm more hesitant (I'd prefer less legislation than more legislation - I think as a society we're over-legislating everything)

[Farmer77]

Just now, Paranoid Android said:

Calling the bank of your river a "safe space" is not the same thing as a university institution officially declaring a section of their facility to be a safe zone. Surely you can see the difference between private practise and public policy. But I do agree that as a private concept, a safe space is not an issue, but as public policy I'm more hesitant (I'd prefer less legislation than more legislation - I think as a society we're over-legislating everything)

IDK I definitely understand hesitation but we currently have a mental health crisis , and we've been mentally unfit as a society for much longer IMO, so im down for trying new things on a public level. 

[+Sherapy]

24 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

  

I see we disagree on this, I don't think safe spaces are helpful in any way. At best they are just vehicles for activists to make political statements. We should be embracing the different views and ideas out in the university campus, not setting up spaces for people to run and hide from opinions. I don't care what life you've led, if you are incapable of hearing a difference of opinion (a difference of opinion that does not involve any kind of threat or violence) and you need somewhere to go because that alternative opinion is too stressful to hear - you're a poorly adjusted human being who should be demanding a refund from your parents for not giving you the skills you need to survive life. 

Remember, I'm not talking about advocating violence or anything like this. Simply being in the presence of someone stating an opinion that is different to your own is enough to warrant needing a safe space. And it's ridiculous. And that's a personal opinion that I know not everyone will share. 

  

First, UM is not public property. Freedom of speech laws do not exist here the way they do in the real world. Everything in this place is governed by the rules of the site administrator. It's a private platform, and contrary to popular opinion freedom of speech is not a guaranteed right on this forum! When every single one of us signed up to this site we clicked an "I agree" button that said we agree to abide by the rules and guidelines of the forum. And a very quick glance at the rules will show that there are very clear rules regarding sending sexual images to other residents. So the person who sent you inappropriate messages was breaking the rules they agreed to when they signed up. 

So referring to UM as a "safe place" is misleading. It's just a space. It has a set of rules, and we agreed to abide by those rules and understand that if we don't follow those rules then we aren't going to be welcome here. Different sites have different rules. One of my friends used to belong to a forum that literally only had one rule - "don't post paedophilia content". Imagine the types of things you CAN post, if that's the only thing you can't? Don't like those rules, don't sign up to the forum! 

Universities are public spaces, they are governed by a different set of laws. You don't click "agree" to join a public space, the government has a set of rights already afforded to people on public spaces. I daresay that would include the right to not be subjected to sexually explicit images, just like the rules on this forum. Safe spaces are unnecessary. The only reason safe spaces exist is to protect students from ideas that they don't want to be subjected to. And in my opinion, no person on the planet needs to be shielded from a difference of opinion. 

Ouch. 
 

In real time: this idea would be viable in a work force where some bosses use intimidation and rob their employees of this “safe space” a place they can express their opinions without fear of retribution or threat of job loss, where some bosses create systems that shield themselves rom unwanted criticism. 

The actual reality is in a lot of work environments a person still has no say, their opinion isn’t even considered. I think our colleges allowing for safe space is a step in the right direction. 
I am involved in labor suit against an employer and on paper the idea is the employee has the right to be protected from retaliation, basically giving an opinion about his employer being harmful to him/her and yet the reality is the owner gets around it by threatening job loss. 
 

To me safe space isn’t a new idea Kurt Lewin created safe spaces and productivity increased. I don’t see it as a threat to free speech, or the end of different options, but as a bridge to see real change in areas that need to empower and protect the vulnerable I don’t  see it as immunity from criticism either but that one can actually speak their mind without being attacked.

Not unlike what  we are doing. to me a “safe space” opens this up to those that feel uncomfortable and vulnerable. I am thinking it is a stepping stone to including more in a conversation. 
 

We have regular posters on here who are uncomfortable with differing opinions and have been on for years and have not gotten anymore comfortable. Some need to feel safe to even entertain experiment with new ideas. Look at our thread on walking the  others shoes very few feel comfortable even pretending to have express different opinions. I highly doubt that safe spaces are going to end free speech and create an monogamous ideology in our lifetime. 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Man this thread has totally been derailed, have you all.

peace

Manwon, on my thread it is fine all ideas are welcome. 

It has taken and interesting turn and I thank Robbie for bringing in a topic to gets  us thinking and sharing.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ouch. 
 

In real time: this idea would be viable in a work force where some bosses use intimidation and rob their employees of this “safe space” a place they can express their opinions without fear of retribution or threat of job loss, where some bosses create systems that shield themselves rom unwanted criticism. 

The actual reality is in a lot of work environments a person still has no say, their opinion isn’t even considered. I think our colleges allowing for safe space is a step in the right direction. 
I am involved in labor suit against an employer and on paper the idea is the employee has the right to be protected from retaliation, basically giving an opinion about his employer being harmful to him/her and yet the reality is the owner gets around it by threatening job loss. 
 

To me safe space isn’t a new idea Kurt Lewin created safe spaces and productivity increased. I don’t see it as a threat to free speech, or the end of different options, but as a bridge to see real change in areas that need to empower and protect the vulnerable I don’t  see it as immunity from criticism either but that one can actually speak their mind without being attacked.

Not unlike what  we are doing. to me a “safe space” opens this up to those that feel uncomfortable and vulnerable. I am thinking it is a stepping stone to including more in a conversation. 
 

We have regular posters on here who are uncomfortable with differing opinions and have been on for years and have not gotten anymore comfortable. Some need to feel safe to even entertain experiment with new ideas. Look at our thread on walking the  others shoes very few feel comfortable even pretending to have express different opinions. I highly doubt that safe spaces are going to end free speech and create an monogamous ideology in our lifetime. 

 

 

 

 

 

It will on campus if it's the whole campus  A lot of college campuses have become ideological Orwellian totalitarian states where only "right thinking" "right speaking" are tolerated. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, Sherapy said:

Manwon, on my thread it is fine all ideas are welcome. 

It has taken and interesting turn and I thank Robbie for bringing in a topic to get us thinking and sharing.

 

 

That's fine with me, my point was simple this thread has changed, and if you are ok with that I won't argue with you it's your right. I was just surprised the direct this thread had taken since my last post to it. I meant no offence, to you or anyone else.

peace

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sorry, Sheri but I have to go with Android on this one. College campus should reflect society at large, not some one-sided ideological distortion of reality. We can't bring people together if we're going to set them apart for philosophical, religious, social or ideological differences. College should be a smorgasbord of variety, not everyone walking in lockstep to one drummer. As in the world at large, the opportunity is always there to exercise freedom of association and from association if one so chooses. Neither should be mandatory. No one should be subjected to abuse or marginalized because of a difference, be it social, economic, sexual, political or religious or anything that sets them apart without harming others. 

College campus does reflect society at large and some need safe spaces to feel comfortable. I don’t see it as an issue or the end of differ opinions.