Would Jesus condone corporal punishment?

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

double post    

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually you can and it happens every day 

It usually only comes to the  (official)  attention of an authority, either if there is a problem like abuse, or if someone makes a complaint,  OR if you ask the govt for any kind of help. 

Official fostering and adoption are different but these are less common than someone informally   taking over the care and control of a child.

We cared for young children and teens for 40 years, without any documentation, and without a single complaint or question from any govt authority, including the school or  doctors.

It is changing, but f i was still working we could still do the same today in my community eg i could take over the care of one of my great grand nephews, without any govt attention or involvement, if i did not ask for any help from them and if no one, like the mother, complained 

Here is current Aust govt policy

quote

What is out-of-home care?

Out-of-home care is the care of children aged 0–17 years1 who are unable to live with their primary caregivers. It involves the placement of a child with alternate caregivers on a short- or long-term basis (Department of Human Services, 2007).

Out-of-home care can be arranged either informally or formally. Informal care refers to arrangements made without intervention by statutory authorities or courts, and formal care follows a child protection intervention (either by voluntary agreement or a care and protection court order), most commonly due to cases of abuse, neglect or family violence

https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/children-care 

Currently there are about 50000 children in formal out of home care in australia (over 400000 in America)  .The informal number would be over double that. 

In australia there is a special case of fostering (both formal and informal) called kinship care This was introduced after the stolen generation, but allows anyone(black or white) to care for a child (either formally or informally )  if the y have any connection to it (this can be, but does not have to be, any  family connection. it could be a cultural or other connection ) 

    

It sounds like you helped family members that had issues, you really didn’t legally foster care. 
 

Any family member can take in family members, it is unheard of where I am that you could get a kid relative or not into school without documentation. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Sherapy

[Habitat]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

you really didn’t legally foster care. 

Don't worry, the "legal" foster system has had numerous failures, and I suspect a lot of people only get involved to get a dollar out of it. Altogether the wrong motive, to get good results for a foster child. 

[+Sherapy]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol  No I've explained this before, but for those who came in late .  b

I was a govt employee and a school teacher so i was well known to govt.,and had a good reputation  (by the late 70s school teachers were having police checks on their character)  I was also the school counsellor for a decade, whose actual job was to help young people and protect them from  abuse and neglect 

This began soon after our marriage in 1976, and things were not as strict then,  although even in 2014 there was no direct govt intervention or control when we took in  two young to mid teenage girls who had left home.    I did work with local police and women's shelters.  None of the parents made any objection. None helped with finances but none intervened 

Sometimes we had explicit consent from  parents, but sometimes, because we were blood relatives, (eg an aunt or uncle ) this was not asked for    

 

We saved the govt a lot of money,

We saved the lives of a few of themm although we lost one. 

Everyone was happy

No one even raised the question of legality, or the need for any paperwork, despite  working quite closely with some govt agencies.  Maybe because this was because we live in a rural community and were on a relatively isolated farm 30 ks from  the nearest town.  

This was also the case when we took in my wife's parents with dementia and cared for them for many years,

At that time  (i990s) we had them, two teenagers, and 2 children under 5, in our care 

 

Taking care of people with dementia isn’t parenting. Lol

I sounds like the troubled kids you helped with were extended family. 
 

 

[Mr Walker]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

It sounds like you helped family members that had issues, you really didn’t legally foster care. 
 

Any family member can take in family members, it is unheard of where I am that you could get a kid relative or not into school without documentation. 

Ive explained this before

I neither legally nor illegally officially fostered or adopted any one.

My wife and i cared for/parented  children from birth to early teens and then into late teens until they became parents themselves  They weren't adopted or fostered children they were our children Some of these were related. Some were the children of friends. Others  had no connection, but just needed to be cared for.

i was explaining that, today, one can do the same thing,  either for related kin, or people connected to you as children of friends, or within your "community".

It can be done even today, informally or formally, ie without documentation, or  govt approval /assistance, or with it.  

[Mr Walker]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Taking care of people with dementia isn’t parenting. Lol

I sounds like the troubled kids you helped with were extended family. 
 

 

nup i just threw  that in

Of course it was LIKE parenting ie  changing nappies, dressing and undressing  clothes, showering,  spoon feeding, etc. Being totally responsible for their safety and behaviours

The y were all our family once they came to  stay .  That was the deal. Our house, our rules, our love, protection and care.

The older ones  were welcome as long as they would follow house rules around non violence, respect for others , and no drugs or alcohol

  Some were part of my wife's extended family.

None of my family ever needed this kind of help   

(I've detailed this before)

Others were no relation.  

 just young people kicked out of home (or who left for various reasons like abuse or domestic violence)  and were homeless and unloved 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mr Walker

[+Sherapy]

5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Don't worry, the "legal" foster system has had numerous failures, and I suspect a lot of people only get involved to get a dollar out of it. Altogether the wrong motive, to get good results for a foster child. 

I don’t have an issue with someone getting financial help for opening their home getting the kids the things they need.I have issue with not being accountable, trained, applying resources in a way that help the parents and the kids get the help they need. 

 

My grandmother dealt with them at first too and she used their recommendations, took their advice, I was put into therapy to deal with the trauma of abuse. My grandmother took getting me help serious. I didn’t have kids at 12 either. My mom had give my grandmother legal guardianship.

 

 

 

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

My grandmother dealt with them at first too and she used their recommendations, took their advice, I was put into therapy to deal with the trauma of abuse. My grandmother took getting me help serious. I didn’t have kids at 12 either. My mom had give my grandmother legal guardianship.

I am referring to non-related foster carers, there have been numerous stories of abuse and neglect that lead to the inevitable conclusion that the motivator was money.

[+Sherapy]

20 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ive explained this before

I neither legally nor illegally officially fostered or adopted any one.

My wife and i cared for/parented  children from birth to early teens and then into late teens until they became parents themselves  They weren't adopted or fostered children they were our children Some of these were related. Some were the children of friends. Others  had no connection, but just needed to be cared for.

i was explaining that, today, one can do the same thing,  either for related kin, or people connected to you as children of friends, or within your "community".

It can be done even today, informally or formally, ie without documentation, or  govt approval /assistance, or with it.  

I get it, you helped out with relatives and friends, and 2 random girls.

I was right you don’t have a lot of parental experience.

I did have a good read on you and so did Psyche.
 

Not to diminish that you helped out family and friends.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

I am referring to non-related foster carers, there have been numerous stories of abuse and neglect that lead to the inevitable conclusion that the motivator was money.

It’s to bad. 

[psyche101]

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Only going to comment on your last point  

I know. I'm right is why.

Quote

I am only explaining all this to give my background, as a parent, over 40 years and almost 3 generations  

If you or others question my qualifications  or experience to comment in this area, expect a screaming response in return 

I didn't. I said some step parents are better than biological and vice versa. I said an unexplainable bond exists that doesn't exist with non biological offspring. I didn't say it makes one a better parent or not, I said it's a unique connection. And I said this having had both experiences. 

Quote

ive never had a god delusion either but,  also, I don't have a delusion that biology makes a biological  father  special, or makes him a true/real, father. 

Sure buddy, sure 

Like I say, there's a unique connection that drives adopted children to seek out biological parents despite the best parenting from others. That's an example of the inner drive that I'm trying to convey. I don't  know if it's memory, genetic, chemical or what. As far as  I know, it's never been investigated, I really don't know. But it's like when say you can't KNOW because you haven't had the experience. That's your regular argument. When speaking to other parents, one can recognise the bond in everyday discussion, just like I completely get what Sheri is referring to. That's how I know it exists, and it's not just me. You can't say the same for your alien god claims.

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I know. I'm right is why.

I didn't. I said some step parents are better than biological and vice versa. I said an unexplainable bond exists that doesn't exist with non biological offspring. I didn't say it makes one a better parent or not, I said it's a unique connection. And I said this having had both experiences. 

Sure buddy, sure 

Like I say, there's a unique connection that drives adopted children to seek out biological parents despite the best parenting from others. That's an example of the inner drive that I'm trying to convey. I don't  know if it's memory, genetic, chemical or what. As far as  I know, it's never been investigated, I really don't know. But it's like when say you can't KNOW because you haven't had the experience. That's your regular argument. When speaking to other parents, one can recognise the bond in everyday discussion, just like I completely get what Sheri is referring to. That's how I know it exists, and it's not just me. You can't say the same for your alien god claims.

I know Mr.Walker has no demonstrated understanding of actual attachment theory based on experience or otherwise his posts speak for him, he has positioned that attachment is insignificant in comparison to the “ideation” of love, which for him has been constructed by reading romance novels. Attachment transpires whether needs are being met or not, babies attach to abusive caregivers too. 

 Attachment behavior cues have the purpose of increasing the closeness and bonding of the child and primary caregiver, such as, the baby  smiling, cooing, crying, approaching, following, the child is biologically wired to be close to the primary, but not to be confused with reflexes such as sneezing or rooting though. 
 

And while all babies attach it doesn’t mean they all attach securely. I am specifically talking about secure attachment. There are specific things to look for it influences the exploratory system, the fear system, the social system, the caregiver system attachment plays a part in these areas. Then there is the attachment bond the individual relationship between the child and parent, where missing the person is felt after being separated after a short time. I miss my kids all the time they don’t live at home anymore lol.I think Walker is suggesting a bond of affection and there is nothing wrong with this but it isn’t attachment or bonding the kind that never wanes or goes away.

 

A person who losses a child never gets over it or past it or describes that they have a tinge of sadness 15 years later, this is not from the attachment bonded perspective. Ones  life is forever changed never to be the same. I have a good friend right now who lost her son about 6 months ago, she will never be okay. My mom had two mental breakdowns after my sisters murder she was committed twice, when she was in the church she put on a brave face but behind the scenes she was in bad shape, the interesting thing is my step dad said he struggled understanding why my mom was so brokenhearted, truly the comments of a persons who didn't have the attachment to my sister. He also said in his lack he failed my mom by not extending compassion and empathy, ( which I found interesting as he had a few kids of his own) anyways they were able to move beyond it.  My Grandmother never got over losing my Dad, it affected the remainder of her life and motivated her behavior towards me, it was how she went on, 
 

As you well know A., they are never out of our mind and we would drop anything and be there if they needed us. It is beyond love it is altruism, I think the Corinthians description of love is more about the parent child bond then anything else. 

You don't work to keep it going, it is constant. 

As you point out, even if you don’t know the specifics as a parent one most of the time either does or comes to recognize this attachment and bond as profoundly significant and far reaching,

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

On 1/21/2020 at 1:26 PM, Sherapy said:

I get it, you helped out with relatives and friends, and 2 random girls.

I was right you don’t have a lot of parental experience.

I did have a good read on you and so did Psyche.
 

Not to diminish that you helped out family and friends.

You are doing what you have done  for  a decade sherapy Taking my posts and twisting them to fit what you  want to believe 

Rather than "get it" you are in a state of delusion and denial 

No; we cared for 12 children, ranging from a few months old to adulthood, over 40 years There would have been a total of around  200 years experience with children and teenagers   It was exactly the same parenting as any parent would do. They were our children (ive used those words enough for it to get through you.)

They were in our care and control. We were the only ones loving and caring for them  The y were no one else's children, because their parents had abandoned them,denied them, and or kicked them out of the parent's home  They had no contact with their biological parents and many still refuse to have anything to do with them 

lol you cant accept a different perspective to your own and so have to work out a way to create some fantasy perspective  to deny my posts. I would have probably 4 times the parenting experience that you  have (12 kids) including boys and girls,  and for a much longer period   (40 years)  I guess that is what bugs you and forces you to create a fantasy  

However I am pleased your true  colours  are showing.

You cant help yourself.

When you are losing an argument,  you attack the person, and don't let reality get in your way  

Have a go at explaining logically, rationally and factually,how you managed to read into my posts that i have any less parenting expertise than you   Less in what way?  What experiences have you  had tha t i have not ? Indeed, given the nature of our children, I've probably had many experiences you have not.

  Have you had to take one of your children to a refuge to protect them from a partner Have you had to stitch them up yourself or take them to an emergency dept?   Have you had to prevent one of yours committing suicide.  Have you  had to help police sought out things like; arson, theft, and drug taking? Have you had to protect your children from abusers predators and drug suppliers ?

And you  simply ignored the bit about many of the children and teenagers having no connections to us  a t all They were homeless and we took them in.

3 of them i had never met. before we gave them shelter.   

Edited January 22, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

21 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I know. I'm right is why.

I didn't. I said some step parents are better than biological and vice versa. I said an unexplainable bond exists that doesn't exist with non biological offspring. I didn't say it makes one a better parent or not, I said it's a unique connection. And I said this having had both experiences. 

Sure buddy, sure 

Like I say, there's a unique connection that drives adopted children to seek out biological parents despite the best parenting from others. That's an example of the inner drive that I'm trying to convey. I don't  know if it's memory, genetic, chemical or what. As far as  I know, it's never been investigated, I really don't know. But it's like when say you can't KNOW because you haven't had the experience. That's your regular argument. When speaking to other parents, one can recognise the bond in everyday discussion, just like I completely get what Sheri is referring to. That's how I know it exists, and it's not just me. You can't say the same for your alien god claims.

I appreciate you are trying to be tolerant and i do  appreciate that  effort

I am biased precisely because i raised a dozen children who were abandoned or rejected by their parents 

Some adopted stories might have a happy ending (only one out of my 12 did) One lad when he was about 20 realised that his mother had been trying to do the best for him after his father had died, and went back to her. ALL the rest remained permanently  separated  from their biological parents (often they only had a mother ) 

Thus i dont have the rosy view you have of biological parenting or the chemical bonds which are supposed to connect a parent and child. Too often they dont work.

BUT anyone can love and care for a child for a lifetime if the y make the decision and commitment to do so, as long as  they  have the personal capacity to give that love to a child

and no I dont know the percentages but many adopted children show no interest in their biological parents while some just need/want to find any biological connection for medical reasons and genetic concerns

In our case, all the children knew their parents, eventually knew they had been abandoned /rejected and thus wanted nothing to do with their  biological parents.  

I claim i have had the exerince I have had the same chemical rush and  bonding

Maybe  this is abit unusual but i have had control of my chemical production a t will, since my teenage years I can produce any body chemical on demand by adjusting my brain as if i had had an external stimuli.I can also prevent the production of any such chemical by regulating my mind and body  You might be right that some non biological parents dont get that chemical rush which some think is love 

I generate it as needed to produce chemical os attraction to my wife my parents and my children.

There are different forms but the y are all powerful and produce short term powerful effects, because they are drugs.   But this is  weaker, and temporary, and more primitive,than choosing to commit to a n intellectual form of love to a person, then making the  effort to maintain that mental sensation or construct  all your life.

Many people find this difficult if not impossible For me it is simple because I learned how to do it as a child   

 I also have created the same  powerful cognitive  love that a good biological parent creates and maintains  

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I know Mr.Walker has no demonstrated understanding of actual attachment theory based on experience or otherwise his posts speak for him, he has positioned that attachment is insignificant in comparison to the “ideation” of love, which for him has been constructed by reading romance novels. Attachment transpires whether needs are being met or not, babies attach to abusive caregivers too. 

 Attachment behavior cues have the purpose of increasing the closeness and bonding of the child and primary caregiver, such as, the baby  smiling, cooing, crying, approaching, following, the child is biologically wired to be close to the primary, but not to be confused with reflexes such as sneezing or rooting though. 
 

And while all babies attach it doesn’t mean they all attach securely. I am specifically talking about secure attachment. There are specific things to look for it influences the exploratory system, the fear system, the social system, the caregiver system attachment plays a part in these areas. Then there is the attachment bond the individual relationship between the child and parent, where missing the person is felt after being separated after a short time. I miss my kids all the time they don’t live at home anymore lol.I think Walker is suggesting a bond of affection and there is nothing wrong with this but it isn’t attachment or bonding the kind that never wanes or goes away.

 

A person who losses a child never gets over it or past it or describes that they have a tinge of sadness 15 years later, this is not from the attachment bonded perspective. Ones  life is forever changed never to be the same. I have a good friend right now who lost her son about 6 months ago, she will never be okay. My mom had two mental breakdowns after my sisters murder she was committed twice, when she was in the church she put on a brave face but behind the scenes she was in bad shape, the interesting thing is my step dad said he struggled understanding why my mom was so brokenhearted, truly the comments of a persons who didn't have the attachment to my sister. He also said in his lack he failed my mom by not extending compassion and empathy, ( which I found interesting as he had a few kids of his own) anyways they were able to move beyond it.  My Grandmother never got over losing my Dad, it affected the remainder of her life and motivated her behavior towards me, it was how she went on, 
 

As you well know A., they are never out of our mind and we would drop anything and be there if they needed us. It is beyond love it is altruism, I think the Corinthians description of love is more about the parent child bond then anything else. 

You don't work to keep it going, it is constant. 

As you point out, even if you don’t know the specifics as a parent one most of the time either does or comes to recognize this attachment and bond as profoundly significant and far reaching,

 

ALL biological drivers in humans are real and powerful, BUT in humans our ideas beliefs concepts values etc are stronger and MORE powerful  than our biology 

Thus a human can override, enhance, alter, adapt or change, a biological driver at will, AND can generate longer lasting, more powerful attachments based on abstract ideas and concepts. eg romantic love

and again you use pseudo psychology and your own experiences Grief comes inamny forms and depths 

 

Basically you are judging my grief and saying that  if i loved more my grief would be greater 

No I choose my grief responses as i chose all my emotional reponses 

I love as powerfully and a deeply as anyone, but i can let go and find joy in the life of a person i have lost  

Its one reason i was offered a job as a funeral director  

IMO you have often allowed your emotions to rule your life Sometimes his might have helped you, but clearly from  your posts, many times it has allowed unnecessary pain hurt and anger.

  My parents taught me that love is shown by  our actions, Not feelings or even words 

My wife feels strongly the same. 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

You are doing what you have done  for  a decade sherapy Taking my posts and twisting them to fit what you  want to believe 

Rather than "get it" you are in a state of delusion and denial 

No; we cared for 12 children, ranging from a few months old to adulthood, over 40 years There would have been a total of around  200 years experience with children and teenagers   It was exactly the same parenting as any parent would do. They were our children (ive used those words enough for it to get through you.)

They were in our care and control. We were the only ones loving and caring for them  The y were no one else's children, because their parents had abandoned them,denied them, and or kicked them out of the parent's home  They had no contact with their biological parents and many still refuse to have anything to do with them 

lol you cant accept a different perspective to your own and so have to work out a way to create some fantasy perspective  to deny my posts. I would have probably 4 times the parenting experience that you  have (12 kids) including boys and girls,  and for a much longer period   (40 years)  I guess that is what bugs you and forces you to create a fantasy  

However I am pleased your true  colours  are showing.

You cant help yourself.

When you are losing an argument,  you attack the person, and don't let reality get in your way  

Have a go at explaining logically, rationally and factually,how you managed to read into my posts that i have any less parenting expertise than you   Less in what way?  What experiences have you  had tha t i have not ? Indeed, given the nature of our children, I've probably had many experiences you have not.

  Have you had to take one of your children to a refuge to protect them from a partner Have you had to stitch them up yourself or take them to an emergency dept?   Have you had to prevent one of yours committing suicide.  Have you  had to help police sought out things like; arson, theft, and drug taking? Have you had to protect your children from abusers predators and drug suppliers ?

And you  simply ignored the bit about many of the children and teenagers having no connections to us  a t all They were homeless and we took them in.

3 of them i had never met. before we gave them shelter.   

 

“Thus i dont have the rosy view you have of biological parenting or the chemical bonds which are supposed to connect a parent and child. Too often they don't work.” (Mr Walker)

I rest my case, all babies attach, but not all attach securely, babies attach to neglectful abusive parents too. 
 

You took in seriously troubled kids, it is not the equivalent of securely attached kids that are your own biological kids. It is it’s own unique experience. 

Few people have the horrors you describe with their own kids. 

53 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

ALL biological drivers in humans are real and powerful, BUT in humans our ideas beliefs concepts values etc are stronger and MORE powerful  than our biology 

Thus a human can override, enhance, alter, adapt or change, a biological driver at will, AND can generate longer lasting, more powerful attachments based on abstract ideas and concepts. eg romantic love

and again you use pseudo psychology and your own experiences Grief comes inamny forms and depths 

 

Basically you are judging my grief and saying that  if i loved more my grief would be greater 

No I choose my grief responses as i chose all my emotional reponses 

I love as powerfully and a deeply as anyone, but i can let go and find joy in the life of a person i have lost  

Its one reason i was offered a job as a funeral director  

IMO you have often allowed your emotions to rule your life Sometimes his might have helped you, but clearly from  your posts, many times it has allowed unnecessary pain hurt and anger.

  My parents taught me that love is shown by  our actions, Not feelings or even words 

My wife feels strongly the same. 

You sound like Walker the stepford man. 

Yes, I do experience a rich emotional life and will continue too. 
 

Whatever works for you, all the best. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sherapy

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

“Thus i dont have the rosy view you have of biological parenting or the chemical bonds which are supposed to connect a parent and child. Too often they don't work.” (Mr Walker)

I rest my case, all babies attach, but not all attach securely, babies attach to neglectful abusive parents too. 
 

You took in seriously troubled kids, it is not the equivalent of securely attached kids that are hiring own biological kids.

Few people have the horrors you describe with their own kids. 

It sounds like repressed emotions, that you aren’t spontaneous, or natural. 

Yes, I do experience a rich emotional life and will continue too. 
 

Whatever works for you. 

 

 

Will he be still able to tell "Dad" jokes, or does he need a special dispensation ?  seriously, your attempts to pump your tyres up, by deflating his, is bordering on tragic.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Habitat

[+Sherapy]

44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

ALL biological drivers in humans are real and powerful, BUT in humans our ideas beliefs concepts values etc are stronger and MORE powerful  than our biology 

Thus a human can override, enhance, alter, adapt or change, a biological driver at will, AND can generate longer lasting, more powerful attachments based on abstract ideas and concepts. eg romantic love

and again you use pseudo psychology and your own experiences Grief comes inamny forms and depths 

 

Basically you are judging my grief and saying that  if i loved more my grief would be greater 

No I choose my grief responses as i chose all my emotional reponses 

I love as powerfully and a deeply as anyone, but i can let go and find joy in the life of a person i have lost  

Its one reason i was offered a job as a funeral director  

IMO you have often allowed your emotions to rule your life Sometimes his might have helped you, but clearly from  your posts, many times it has allowed unnecessary pain hurt and anger.

  My parents taught me that love is shown by  our actions, Not feelings or even words 

My wife feels strongly the same. 

You are reading into the post, in a direction all your own.

I am not going to respond as it isn’t a representation of what I am saying. 
 

Moving on.

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Will he be still able to tell "Dad" jokes, or does he need a special dispensation ?  seriously, your attempts to pump your tyres up, by deflating his, is bordering on tragic.

Attachment Theory is a thing that is the point. 
 

He just hasn’t had an experience of it. 
 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sherapy

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Attachment Theory is a thing that is the point. 
 

He just hasn’t had an experience of it. 

Sounds more like one-upmanship theory to me. 

[+Sherapy]

Just now, Habitat said:

Sounds more like one-upmanship theory to me. 

It is just different relationships experienced different ways,
 

 

[Habitat]

17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

It is just different relationships experienced different ways,
 

 

Well, you have experienced a parent who wasn't "attached", and there are plenty of people who treat step-children like their own, so it is probably better not to be too dogmatic.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

I appreciate you are trying to be tolerant and i do  appreciate that  effort

I am biased precisely because i raised a dozen children who were abandoned or rejected by their parents 

Some adopted stories might have a happy ending (only one out of my 12 did) One lad when he was about 20 realised that his mother had been trying to do the best for him after his father had died, and went back to her. ALL the rest remained permanently  separated  from their biological parents (often they only had a mother ) 

Thus i dont have the rosy view you have of biological parenting or the chemical bonds which are supposed to connect a parent and child. Too often they dont work.

BUT anyone can love and care for a child for a lifetime if the y make the decision and commitment to do so, as long as  they  have the personal capacity to give that love to a child

and no I dont know the percentages but many adopted children show no interest in their biological parents while some just need/want to find any biological connection for medical reasons and genetic concerns

In our case, all the children knew their parents, eventually knew they had been abandoned /rejected and thus wanted nothing to do with their  biological parents.  

I claim i have had the exerince I have had the same chemical rush and  bonding

Maybe  this is abit unusual but i have had control of my chemical production a t will, since my teenage years I can produce any body chemical on demand by adjusting my brain as if i had had an external stimuli.I can also prevent the production of any such chemical by regulating my mind and body  You might be right that some non biological parents dont get that chemical rush which some think is love 

I generate it as needed to produce chemical os attraction to my wife my parents and my children.

There are different forms but the y are all powerful and produce short term powerful effects, because they are drugs.   But this is  weaker, and temporary, and more primitive,than choosing to commit to a n intellectual form of love to a person, then making the  effort to maintain that mental sensation or construct  all your life.

Many people find this difficult if not impossible For me it is simple because I learned how to do it as a child   

 I also have created the same  powerful cognitive  love that a good biological parent creates and maintains  

Like I say. I'm not disagreeing with the care factor. I've done what you have too, taken a couple ratbags under my wing and steered them. I got a call from one one day swinging in a hammock in the Bahamas. I was pretty stoked. But I can't put into words how tall I felt when my son surprised us all on his last day of primary when he decided to give the whole school and sang them a song. And it was great, the entire hall got right into it. It's unexplainable. Buckets of dopamine.

I'd give theory lessons to my apprentices that struggled with college at my home after work. And yes, you've done a good thing there. I might disagree on your view on corporal punishment but I don't know your situation so I won't comment further. But I'm glad you were there for those kids. I can't explain what I'm talking about, like I say, I don't know if what I'm talking about is chemical. I suspect some genetic thing is going on there too. But I don't expect you to believe it if you find my claim to be unbelievable. I'm happy to say agree to disagree on this 

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Well, you have experienced a parent who wasn't "attached", and there are plenty of people who treat step-children like their own, so it is probably better not to be too dogmatic.

I am a step daughter, the relationship is not the same as a biological parent and I get along with my step dad very well, and adore/ love the guy, we have an amazing friendship, but he isn’t my biological father. 
 

I had a bond attachment to my mother she just wasn’t a quality parent until much later in her life. My mom was also undiagnosed mentally ill too. Once she got help she was much better and I was so proud of her growth, 

 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

41 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

“Thus i dont have the rosy view you have of biological parenting or the chemical bonds which are supposed to connect a parent and child. Too often they don't work.” (Mr Walker)

I rest my case, all babies attach, but not all attach securely, babies attach to neglectful abusive parents too. 
 

You took in seriously troubled kids, it is not the equivalent of securely attached kids that are your own biological kids. It is it’s own unique experience. 

Few people have the horrors you describe with their own kids. 

You sound like Walker the stepford man. 

Yes, I do experience a rich emotional life and will continue too. 
 

Whatever works for you, all the best. 

 

 

The argument was not about baby attachment but parental attachment.

MANY parents never attach at all 

And attachment requires not just biological drivers but commitment and desire to attach and bond .

A parent  who chooses to bond with an intellectual/cognitive emotional bond with a child, will have more powerful and complete attachment than one who relies on, or only has, the biological attachment 

No its not a few Its 10s of thousands in australia   and 100s of thousands in America. JUST going by children who have been abandoned by their parents or have been placed in state care

I am walker the 21st century man. ie one who understands the nature of emotions, and their importance, but choses responses  which are productive and safe for myself and for others, rather than just be driven  by evolved biological/chemical drivers found in all primates and neolithic human beings .

 

 

Modern america

quote

4.1 million child maltreatment referral reports received.1

Child abuse reports involved 7.5 million children.1

3.2 million children received prevention & post-response services.1

142,301 children received foster care services.1

74.9% of victims are neglected.1 

18.3% of victims are physically abused.1

8.6% of victims are sexually abused.1

7.1% of victims are psychologically maltreated.1

Highest rate of child abuse in children under age one (25.3% per 1,000).1

Annual estimate: 1,720 children died from abuse and neglect in 2017.1,

Who abused and neglected children? 

83.4% (More than four-fifths) of perpetrators were between the ages of 18 and 44 years.1

54.1% (More than one-half) of perpetrators were women

 

Almost five children die every day from child abuse.1,2

Seventy-two (71.8%) percent of all child fatalities were younger than 3 years old.1

80.1% of child fatalities involve at least one parent.1

Of the children who died, 75.4% suffered neglect.1

Of the children who died, 41.6% suffered physical abuse either exclusively or in combination with another maltreatment type.1 

49.6% of children who die from child abuse are under one year.1

Boys had a higher child fatality rate than girls (2.68 boys & 2.02 girls per 100,000)1

Almost 65,000 children are sexually abused.1

More than 90% of juvenile sexual abuse victims know their perpetrator.6

Estimated that between 50-60% of maltreatment fatalities are not recorded on death certificates.5

Child abuse crosses all socioeconomic and educational levels, religions, ethnic and cultural groups.1

 

https://americanspcc.org/child-abuse-statistics/