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Sherapy

Would Jesus condone corporal punishment?

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Festina
8 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

: ) but if parents abandon their children, God wants us to know that he is the father, even more so...

 

And Nature is their Mother.  People complain about the 20,000,000 children living in fatherless households, but imagine if the tables were turned and there were 20,000,000 motherless children.  Yikes! 

Some of the finest humans to have inhabited this planet were abandoned by their parents, born illegitimate [illegally] or neglected.  Difficulties strengthen the mind as labor strengthens the body. 

 

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Piney
Just now, OverSword said:

You mean Rome had a strong middle class not the Roman Empire.  And the middle class in rome probably accounted for 1/50th of 1% of the worlds population.

Nope, the Empire did. Most of them were in Spain, Gaul and North Africa and Egypt had a large chunk (scholars) 

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

If he could have been more wealthy, but eschewed that, it only makes him more convincing, though. It is a lot easier for the poor to advocate poverty, they are already in it, and are at no risk of being accused of hypocrisy but the wealthy man is.

A peasants' religion must appeal to the poor. 

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Piney
4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You mean Rome had a strong middle class not the Roman Empire.  And the middle class in rome probably accounted for 1/50th of 1% of the worlds population.

The Persian Empire has a strong middle class too. That's why their religions were so popular with Roman citizens. 

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Paranoid Android
1 minute ago, Debra F. II said:

Punishment is just that, a punishment... the infliction or imposing of a penalty.

But you can be against the death penalty but still think it's ok to punish people in lesser ways, right? 

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Habitat
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

A church, not the church, there is not just one The Church, but I mean anyone who sets themselves up as an authority using Jesus as an example, it could be a cult leader that is not affiliated with any church, or it could be the pope, or billy graham.

Well, anyone that can persuade you to part with your money, within the letter of the law, is called a "salesman". There is no compulsion to buy. It isn't a tax.

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Debra F. II
6 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

 

And Nature is their Mother.  People complain about the 20,000,000 children living in fatherless households, but imagine if the tables were turned and there were 20,000,000 motherless children.  Yikes! 

Some of the finest humans to have inhabited this planet were abandoned by their parents, born illegitimate [illegally] or neglected.  Difficulties strengthen the mind as labor strengthens the body. 

 

lol Blessed be! 

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

A peasants' religion must appeal to the poor. 

And more so if your figurehead made himself a peasant and did not have to. So I'm not really seeing his being "middle class" at some stage being a demerit.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I decided to start a thread on this and would like to continue exploring the pros and cons of corporal punishment as outlined biblically.

Would Jesus if he existed condone corporal punishment? Why and Why not? 
 

@Mr Walker and @Festina Lente we can continue  our discussion from the Does Jesus exist thread. 
 

Quote

You simply cannot live your lives protecting a child from all harm, by removing the harm. 

You have to teach the child to  avoid the harm, itself. [sage advice]  (Walker).

“Please do give some examples of removing “harm”. This will be useful.  TY

Perhaps you misunderstood. I thought his post was quite clear.  (Festine Lemte).”

Thank you for the response but what are your examples of you cannot live your life protecting children from harm by removing them.

How would you teach a child to protect themselves from harm if not by removing them? 
 

A scenerio: a 3 year old child has been told that there are fire ants all over the front yard and his mother instructed him to watch out and then he was left  to play in the yard unsupervised, the little guy either  forgets or didn’t fully understand to begin with and then sits on a mound of fire ants and gets severely stung. The father a deeply religious man who advocates the use of corporal punishment spanks the boy for not following his instructions, his justification was his 3 year old was disobedient. 
 

My input is it was a failure on the part of the parents, this is a clear cut case of a 3 year old unsupervised and put into harms way. Few would place this kind of trust in a 3 year old. The best option would be to remove the child  from the harm altogether find a place to play that was safe, there would never be a reason to subject a little one to such harm and pain. 

 

The parent felt it was the responsibility of the child that as sad at it was the boy was disobedient and deserved to be punished using corporal punishment, that maybe next time he would listen.


 

What are your thoughts? What about Jesus would he condone this? 
 

All comments welcome.
 

 

Accord to biblical teachings the Bible talks in great depth about corporal punishment, so in my opinion why would Jesus act any differently since this is the word of God. Also in effect God did the same thing by sending his son into this world to be executed for the purpose of forming a new religion based upon Jesus Christ also known today as the Christian Religion.

Here are some passages from the Bible that condone the use of corporal punishment.

1) Proverbs 13:24: Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.

2) Proverbs 23:13-14

    13 - Do not withhold discipline from a child, if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.

    14 - If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. ( Sheol - The abode of the dead )

3) Ephesians 6:4: Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

4) Proverbs 10:13: On the lips of him who has understanding, wisdom is found but a rod is for the back of him who lacks sense.

5) Timothy 3:4: He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,

6) Deuteronomy 21:18-21:  ( A Rebellious Son )

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, 20 and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Piney said:

I became my father's Warrior-Advisor and a type of Wisdon Keeper didn't I? :whistle:

Very kool. 

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Piney said:

That's a myth. The Roman Empire had a very strong middle class. That's why the whole "poor carpenter" spiel makes me giggle. 

Why thank you Piney.:tsu:

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Festina
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Persian Empire has a strong middle class too. That's why their religions were so popular with Roman citizens. 

It’s been said that the four great sages of our era have been Hermes Trismegistus;  Egypt, Buddha; Asia, Zoroaster; Persia, Middle East and Apollonius of Tyana [The historical “Jesus” and “Paul”] all the former and more —

Whaddaya think Piney?  

Edited by Festina Lente
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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Piney said:

I became my father's Warrior-Advisor and a type of Wisdon Keeper didn't I? :whistle:

Pinesters what is a wisdom keeper?

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Piney
13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

And more so if your figurehead made himself a peasant and did not have to. So I'm not really seeing his being "middle class" at some stage being a demerit.

Christian Rome was trying to wipe out the Middle Class with the Priestly Class being the lower aristocracy, so yes, at the later stage it was. 

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Festina
46 minutes ago, Habitat said:

And what would be the relevance or import of whether he was poor or not ?

It’s been said by some  that historical Jesus was not poor.  But he did give all his inherited wealth away and became a sojourning wandering philosopher. 

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Piney
Just now, Sherapy said:

Pinesters what is a wisdom keeper?

Meteiinuu (Full Medicine Man) Niipiikniis (Herbalist Healer) Kiimockhnii  ( Night Walker/ Spirit Creator Sacred Objects handler and Spiritual Police) 

Then on the Lakota/ Dakota end of the Grand Medicine Society

Wicasaa Waakan (Full Medicine Man)  Pejuutaa Wicasaa (Herbalist) Yuwipii Wicasa ( Night Walker/ Spirit Maker etc)

I was a Night Walker and Mask Carver who handled bad things with archaeologists. 

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Piney
Just now, Festina Lente said:

It’s been said by some  that historical Jesus was not poor.  But he did give all his inherited wealth away and became a sojourning wandering philosopher. 

He was a farmer who just stopped farming. 

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Debra F. II
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

But you can be against the death penalty but still think it's ok to punish people in lesser ways, right? 

We are all punished!

But No... I didnt say I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm 50/50 there, if there's 100% proof I am ok with that... but then again we are tought to forgive so I'm back to 50/50. I am ok with war as long as we didn't start it unless we're protecting ourselves and for human right cases.

Complicated isn't it... too each his own when it comes to raising children and back handing them, there are other ways to discipline a child, that's for sure!

I think the problem begins when true abuse happens. And when a slap across the face turns into much more then it should for example when your 14 yr old daughter tells you no shes not coming home until midnight, while shes screaming and cussing and calling you names, when you want her home at 10:30 suddenly becomes abuse now days is a bit ridiculous, parents are put in jail, the kids on cloud 9 laughing all the way... there's major problems drawing a line because all situations are different.

I was punished in many ways as a chilf, right or wrong I lived through it and didn't turn out so bad after all... 

Edited by Debra F. II
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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Piney said:

Meteiinuu (Full Medicine Man) Niipiikniis (Herbalist Healer) Kiimockhnii  ( Night Walker/ Spirit Creator Sacred Objects handler and Spiritual Police) 

Then on the Lakota/ Dakota end of the Grand Medicine Society

Wicasaa Waakan (Full Medicine Man)  Pejuutaa Wicasaa (Herbalist) Yuwipii Wicasa ( Night Walker/ Spirit Maker etc)

I was a Night Walker and Mask Carver who handled bad things with archaeologists. 

Full Medicine Man? Doctor?

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Piney
9 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

It’s been said that the four great sages of our era have been Hermes Trismegistus;  Egypt, Buddha; Asia, Zoroaster; Persia, Middle East and Apollonius of Tyana [The historical “Jesus” and “Paul”] all the former and more —

Whaddaya think Piney?  

Zoroaster appeared early on and he wasn't as great as one would think then. Just a Dualist with some anal retentive issues. 

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Paranoid Android

  

26 minutes ago, Festina Lente said:

Priceless...but did she lie to him?  If so, not good. 

I don't know, I hope not. 

  

8 hours ago, Festina Lente said:

The role of the parent is to protect from as much harm as one can.  

While I'm responding to you, I stumbled across this in the other thread, wanted to quickly just ask if you could clarify what you mean by this. To what extent do you protect children from "as much harm as one can"? For example, letting your child climb a gym set in a playground with just dirt and grass vs one of those synthetic playgrounds with spongy surfaces that protect anyone falling down from getting a scrape or bruise. Some parents will refuse to let their child play on a regular play set because it's too dangerous and they will only let their child play on the synthetic playgrounds. Furthermore, some of these parents might even think that a parent who lets their child play on a regular grass-and-dirt play set is a bad parent who allows unnecessary danger into their child's life. 

I'm asking for clarification because when I read "protect from as much harm as one can", my mind automatically leaps to the most extreme, but people rarely live where my mind chooses its extreme examples from :rofl:  Thanks for your time,

~ PA

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Piney
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Full Medicine Man? Doctor?

and Ceremonial Chief , name giver, sweat lodge guy, pipe keeper. 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

We are all punished!

But No... I didnt day I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm 50/50 there, if there's 100% proof I am ok with that... but then again we are tought to forgive so I'm back to 50/50. I am ok with war as long as we didn't start it unless we're protecting ourselves and for human right cases.

Complicated isn't it... too each his own when it comes to raising children and back handing them, there are other ways to discipline a child, that's for sure!

I think the problem begins when true abuse happens. And when a slap across the face turns into much more then it should for example when your 14 yr old daughter tells you no shes not coming home until midnight, while shes screaming and cussing and calling you names, when you want her home at 10:30 suddenly becomes abuse now days is a bit ridiculous, parents are put in jail, the kids on cloud 9 laughing all the way... there's major problems drawing a line because all situations are different.

I was punished in many ways as a chilf, right or wrong I lived through it and didn't turn out so bad after all... 

This sounds like major breakdown in the relationship, there is one thing to be rebellious to the point of blatant disrespect and assertive ones independence. I am not making judgements but this type of issue is a long time in the making. IMHO. I am not sure how effective back handing would be in this scenerio.

Edited by Sherapy

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Sherapy
3 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

  

I don't know, I hope not. 

  

While I'm responding to you, I stumbled across this in the other thread, wanted to quickly just ask if you could clarify what you mean by this. To what extent do you protect children from "as much harm as one can"? For example, letting your child climb a gym set in a playground with just dirt and grass vs one of those synthetic playgrounds with spongy surfaces that protect anyone falling down from getting a scrape or bruise. Some parents will refuse to let their child play on a regular play set because it's too dangerous and they will only let their child play on the synthetic playgrounds. Furthermore, some of these parents might even think that a parent who lets their child play on a regular grass-and-dirt play set is a bad parent who allows unnecessary danger into their child's life. 

I'm asking for clarification because when I read "protect from as much harm as one can", my mind automatically leaps to the most extreme, but people rarely live where my mind chooses its extreme examples from :rofl:  Thanks for your time,

~ PA

Robbie she didn’t say this this is my position, Within reason, age dependent, supervise when appropriate. 
 

I let my kids play at playgrounds etc. when they were little we assisted just enough to keep them safe.

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Festina
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

We are all punished!

But No... I didnt day I don't believe in the death penalty, I'm 50/50 there, if there's 100% proof I am ok with that... but then again we are tought to forgive so I'm back to 50/50. I am ok with war as long as we didn't start it unless we're protecting ourselves and for human right cases.

Complicated isn't it... too each his own when it comes to raising children and back handing them, there are other ways to discipline a child, that's for sure!

I think the problem begins when true abuse happens. And when a slap across the face turns into much more then it should for example when your 14 yr old daughter tells you no shes not coming home until midnight, while shes screaming and cussing and calling you names, when you want her home at 10:30 suddenly becomes abuse now days is a bit ridiculous, parents are put in jail, the kids on cloud 9 laughing all the way... there's major problems drawing a line because all situations are different.

I was punished in many ways as a child, right or wrong I lived through it and didn't turn out so bad after all... 

Cheer up kiddo  — There is no marriage or religion in Heaven.  :clap:

 

 

Edited by Festina Lente
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Sherapy
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

and Ceremonial Chief , name giver, sweat lodge guy, pipe keeper. 

I have always wanted to go to a sweat lodge, I talked to someone like you when my sister died. 

How hot does it get inside a sweat lodge.

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