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Eldorado

Did Iran shoot down Ukraine passenger plane?

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RoofGardener

Hmmm...... 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainian-flight-crew-tried-to-turn-back-before-crash-authorities/a-51936419

"....Both of the plane's "black boxes," which contain the aircraft's data and communication records, have been recovered — but some memory has been lost due to damage, Iranian authorities said."

Oh REALLY ? And how - precisely - would the Iranians KNOW that ? 

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Manwon Lender
18 hours ago, Eldorado said:

"Doubts have been cast over Iranian assertions that a deadly Ukrainian plane crash near Tehran was the result of technical failures, with independent aviation operations experts saying a “shootdown” was the most likely explanation.

"Iranian officials said technical issues were behind the Ukrainian International Airlines (UIA) crash, which happened shortly after take-off from Imam Khomeini International airport on Wednesday morning, killing all 176 people on board.

"The Ukrainian embassy in Tehran initially echoed this stance, but later retracted its statement, and instead said it was for an official commission to determine the cause of the accident."

Full monty at the UK Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-plane-crash-shootdown-ukraine-boeing-latest-a9275051.html

 

"Ukraine refuses to rule out Boeing 737 was shot down by missile near Tehran killing 176"

At the UK Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/08/iran-plane-crash-170-passengers-feared-dead-ukraine-boeing-737/

 

"Iran says it will not give black box from crashed airliner to Boeing"

At the UK Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/08/iran-says-it-will-not-give-black-box-from-crashed-airliner-to-boeing

Well let's see, why would Iran shoot down that plane shortly after attacking US Bases in Iraq?

Well it doesn't seem logical does it, but with Iran being on high alert at this time, its very possible that a Iranian Anti-Aircraft crew may have acted out fear of reprisals for their attack on the US. Then shot down the plane because they over reacted and thought they were being attacked. It's a fact that most countries in a time of war will place Anti-Aircraft Batteries near Airports and other government facilities. 

I personally think this is very sad mistake, that occurred because of a poorly trained crew on an Anti-Aircraft battery who also due to fear over reacted. I don't think that Iran had any other reason to shoot down that plane if it was shot down at all. But it still doesn't excuse the fact  that the plane was possible shot down and it certain doesn't bring back all of those people who died or consol their grieving families.

if Iran doesn't allow foreign investigators to examine the wreckage, it in my opinion means that a mustake did happen and that Iran is trying to cover it up. Because I think if it was an accident that occurred due to equipment, malfunctions on the plane Iran would be doing everything it could to prove that's what caused the crash.

peace

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Manwon Lender
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm...... 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainian-flight-crew-tried-to-turn-back-before-crash-authorities/a-51936419

"....Both of the plane's "black boxes," which contain the aircraft's data and communication records, have been recovered — but some memory has been lost due to damage, Iranian authorities said."

Oh REALLY ? And how - precisely - would the Iranians KNOW that ? 

Because they have consulted Allah.:yes:

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Essan
3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well let's see, why would Iran shoot down that plane shortly after attacking US Bases in Iraq?

Well it doesn't seem logical does it, but with Iran being on high alert at this time, its very possible that a Iranian Anti-Aircraft crew may have acted out fear of reprisals for their attack on the US. Then shot down the plane because they over reacted and thought they were being attacked. It's a fact that most countries in a time of war will place Anti-Aircraft Batteries near Airports and other government facilities. 

I personally think this is very sad mistake, that occurred because of a poorly trained crew on an Anti-Aircraft battery who also due to fear over reacted.

 

So far, that seems the most obvious explanation.   I certainly don't thi9nk any deliberately shot down what they thought was an airliner

meanwhile, latest on the investigation (western media is rubbish)

https://www.unian.info/world/10823759-ps752-crash-ukrainian-experts-examining-boeing-wreckage-in-iran-say-fire-didn-t-start-from-engines.html

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DarkHunter

America is now confident that the Ukrainian jet was shot down by Iran.

https://mobile.twitter.com/krisvancleave/status/1215309192086675459

Seems a satelite detected two infrared red blips of the missiles being launched with a third blip of the impact with the jet along with radar signals of the missiles being turned on.

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TigerBright19

Who will take responsibility for this crime, and what will they be charged with?

 

Negligent Homicide - Killing someone through gross negligence without malice towards the victims.

Transferred Intent - Having the intention to kill someone, but accidentally killing someone else by mistake.

 

 

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Eldorado
17 hours ago, razman said:

As far as I read , there was mostly Iranians on board.

 

In total, 82 Iranians and 63 Canadians were on board the Kyiv-bound Ukraine International Airlines (UIA) Flight PS752, Ukraine's Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said.

There were also 11 victims - including nine crew members - from Ukraine, 10 from Sweden plus four Afghans, three Britons and three Germans."

At the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51032823

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Essan
17 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

Who will take responsibility for this crime, and what will they be charged with?

 

Negligent Homicide - Killing someone through gross negligence without malice towards the victims.

Transferred Intent - Having the intention to kill someone, but accidentally killing someone else by mistake.

 

 

It took 8 years for the US to (sort of) admit culprability for shooting down Flight 655 in 1988

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

I doubt anyone will be charged with anything, but some Iranian military personnel may not see their families again ....

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tortugabob
Posted (edited)

Blaming Iran for this is just like us claiming that Iraqis were stealing baby incubators in Kuwait and had weapons of mass destruction, Assad gassing his own people or , Ghadaffi being a monster.  This **** goes on and on back to 1898 when the Spanish supposedly blew up the Maine.  More than likely it was a bomb and the CIA or the Israeli Mossad was targeting someone on board the plane.  Killing innocent people means nothing to organizations like them.

Edited by tortugabob

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Mr.United_Nations

Please dont start conspiracy theories right now

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toast
Posted (edited)

I listened to a radio interview today which was held with a few Ukrainian plane engineers who were en-route to Tehran. On guy stated a burning engine will not cause a plane crash. He also wondered that there was no emergency call be the pilots which is, as per his experience, an indicator that there are only two options left: an onboard explosion or the result of an external event in flight.

Edited by toast
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toast

Just in:

Quote

Ukraine’s leader says Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has assured him of full cooperation in investigating the fatal crash of a Ukrainian airliner near the Iranian capital and that Iran would provide experts access to all data. President Volodymyr Zelenskiy spoke with Rouhani by telephone on Thursday.

A statement on the Ukrainian presidential website says: “The Iranian party assured full cooperation with a view to holding an objective investigation and finding out the causes of the tragedy. Hassan Rouhani stressed that Iran would provide the Ukrainian expert group with prompt access to all the necessary data.”

apnews

 

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

Who will take responsibility for this crime, and what will they be charged with?

 

Negligent Homicide - Killing someone through gross negligence without malice towards the victims.

Transferred Intent - Having the intention to kill someone, but accidentally killing someone else by mistake.

 

 

Whose going to charge a Government? The only organisation that will charge them is the International Court of Justice, located at The Hague in the Netherlands. They handle these kind of investigations for the United Nations, just like the current on going trail against Syrias Assad for committing war crimes / crimes against Humanity for the Chemical attacks that started occurring in 2014. His trial almost over, and there is little doubt he will be found guilty in absentia once that happens if he ever leaves Syria again they will arrest him and lock him up for good. 

Peace

 

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President-Elect Acidhead

 

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President-Elect Acidhead

 

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Black Red Devil

I'm inclined to go with the version the plane was downed by a missile.  The Iranians were on edge and someone panicked.  The fact the Ukrainian investigators noticed no traces of fire on the engines shifts the fault indicator towards Iran IMO.  There could be other ways a plane could go down but the video showing the plane lighting up before impact would most likely be because the engine(s) caught on fire or the plane suffered an explosion.   Maybe also a suicide bomber on board...:(

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President-Elect Acidhead

I watched Trudeau's presser LIVE and was appalled reporters, who I couldn't see so I have no idea who they are, ask Trudeau if President Trump is responsible for Iran shooting a civilian passenger airliner because he(Trump) killed the Iranian terrorist general.

Really?!?!?!?!

You can't make this sh!t up!!!!

 

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toast

LUFTHANSA has cancelled all flights into Tehran, flight LH600/09 interrupted and returned to FRA.

nhRgeWF.png?1

 

 

 

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L.A.T.1961

UK now confirming an Iranian missile downed the aircraft.

"New information suggests an Iranian surface-to-air missile brought down a Ukrainian passenger plane that crashed near Tehran, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said." 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51055505

I would think this will close Iranian airspace to international flights until Iran admit responsibility and can be trusted to keep control of their anti aircraft systems.  

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RavenHawk

Let's see, 82 Iranians dead in a *possible* shoot down.  50 Iranians dead from stampeding at Soleimanni's funeral.  Attacked two foreign nations.  15 missiles shot, millions wasted and not one American was killed.  Khamenei needs to stop while he's behind.

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and then

Some poor AA operator is probably going to die for this mistake and he acted to keep from being in serious trouble if he DIDN'T shoot down the enemy.  It's a tragedy but I don't believe it was intentional.  Damned shame...

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President-Elect Acidhead

This Iranian government is truly nuts

 

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Manwon Lender
49 minutes ago, toast said:

LUFTHANSA has cancelled all flights into Tehran, flight LH600/09 interrupted and returned to FRA.

nhRgeWF.png?1

 

 

 

That's the only way to go, the place is a disaster waiting to happen.

peace

 

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Manwon Lender
14 minutes ago, and then said:

Some poor AA operator is probably going to die for this mistake and he acted to keep from being in serious trouble if he DIDN'T shoot down the enemy.  It's a tragedy but I don't believe it was intentional.  Damned shame...

It is certainly a dam shame, all those people killed and their grieving families all due to some idiot who messed himself and over reacted. One thing is for certain I doubt Iran will ever admit the truth, so like you said the people from that battery will definite pay the ultimate price, to bad so sad.

peace

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