US economic system rigged to favor the rich

[Eldorado]

"The notion that the U.S. economy is “rigged” to benefit the wealthy and special interests was a major rallying cry in the 2016 presidential election and is already resurfacing in the 2020 race.

"This message is likely to resonate with many Americans. Seven-in-ten U.S. adults say the economic system in their country unfairly favors powerful interests, compared with less than a third who say the system is generally fair to most Americans.

"Wide majorities of Americans also say politicians, large corporations and people who are wealthy have too much power and influence in today’s economy."

Full monty at Pew Research: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/09/70-of-americans-say-u-s-economic-system-unfairly-favors-the-powerful/

[+Desertrat56]

I agree with this.  That is what capitalism is at it's core, rigged to enhance the rich, using the poor as slaves.  I know politics and elections are all about who can pay more to get their candidate elected.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Desertrat56

[+and-then]

The socialist mantra never really changes.  It just waits until people forget the bloodbaths that accompany it EVERY TIME.  Seems we just need to relearn the lesson every few generations that NOTHING IS FREE.  You cannot forcibly steal what belongs to others by using the government to do it and then expect the government to actually raise the standard of living for everyone.  It never works.  All it ever accomplishes is to bring everyone down to the same level of poverty, misery and hopelessness. 

Capitalism is far from perfect but it's still the best system available for benefit to the largest numbers of people.  

[Duke Wellington]

6 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

"The notion that the U.S. economy is “rigged” to benefit the wealthy and special interests was a major rallying cry in the 2016 presidential election and is already resurfacing in the 2020 race.

"This message is likely to resonate with many Americans. Seven-in-ten U.S. adults say the economic system in their country unfairly favors powerful interests, compared with less than a third who say the system is generally fair to most Americans.

"Wide majorities of Americans also say politicians, large corporations and people who are wealthy have too much power and influence in today’s economy."

Full monty at Pew Research: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/09/70-of-americans-say-u-s-economic-system-unfairly-favors-the-powerful/

The views of large corporations matters though, because they generate most of the US economic activity.

It is right and proper for a Government to give a lot of influence to big business in policy development. Money isn't magicked into existence, businesses have to win domestic and overseas customers. So it is in US citizens best interests for that to be the way things are done.

While many have a problem seeing the consequences of decisions in the future, if we gave each person an equal amount of influence on economic matters the country would quickly go bust. The average citizen doesnt understand business, markets, economics, consumer demands, etc, and therefore the people in the know should have more influence.

[Duke Wellington]

44 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with this.  That is what capitalism is at it's core, rigged to enhance the rich, using the poor as slaves.  I know politics and elections are all about who can pay more to get their candidate elected.

Socialism is totally immoral.

Under socialism there is no giving to society, only taking. It teaches people not to contribute in a meaningful way, only to redistribute the wealth of those who do away. The lie is that socialism cures poverty, when in fact by redistributing money away from the source of job creation and prosperity it harms the economy increasing poverty. The only positive being the poorest arent quite as poor, but the numbers of regular poor (the ordinary working class) are vastly increased.

Capitalism is morally superior in every way.

It is no coincidence that all the worlds richest countries are those which have liberalised their markets. People want to contribute towards society and they like to do their part. It gives business owners enjoyment, fulfilment, and its exciting running your own successful ship. The more products and services you offer to people, the more demand there is for them, the more they are valued, the more a business person is doing for their society and in return they get rewarded by it in terms of wealth, status, and power.

Socialism is a deeply selfish and short-sighted ideology, capitalism is about doing something for others. God has setup the universe to reward those who do stuff for society, and this is also why its Western nations which for many centuries now have been the greatest on the planet (especially the US!). God is a capitalist not a socialist, and favours the US.

Dont change it, dont ruin it, look at Great Britain - its decline started when we gained a socialist party (Labour Party) and they started messing up our society thinking everything works backwards from how it actually does.

Edited January 9, 2020 by RabidMongoose

[+Desertrat56]

13 minutes ago, and then said:

The socialist mantra never really changes.  It just waits until people forget the bloodbaths that accompany it EVERY TIME.  Seems we just need to relearn the lesson every few generations that NOTHING IS FREE.  You cannot forcibly steal what belongs to others by using the government to do it and then expect the government to actually raise the standard of living for everyone.  It never works.  All it ever accomplishes is to bring everyone down to the same level of poverty, misery and hopelessness. 

Capitalism is far from perfect but it's still the best system available for benefit to the largest numbers of people.  

How about if we just learn balance, capitalism balanced with democracy.  No such thing as balance on this planet if humans are involved.  You claim to be against socialism but I bet you collect your social security check and would apply for medicaid if you needed it.

[Debra F. II]

1 hour ago, Eldorado said:

"The notion that the U.S. economy is “rigged” to benefit the wealthy and special interests was a major rallying cry in the 2016 presidential election and is already resurfacing in the 2020 race.

"This message is likely to resonate with many Americans. Seven-in-ten U.S. adults say the economic system in their country unfairly favors powerful interests, compared with less than a third who say the system is generally fair to most Americans.

"Wide majorities of Americans also say politicians, large corporations and people who are wealthy have too much power and influence in today’s economy."

Full monty at Pew Research: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/09/70-of-americans-say-u-s-economic-system-unfairly-favors-the-powerful/

Well... I am still waiting for that tax break he mentioned in the beginning but I'm not too upset over it, Nancy's had him pretty busy and she comes first.

[simplybill]

43 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

How about if we just learn balance, capitalism balanced with democracy.  No such thing as balance on this planet if humans are involved.  You claim to be against socialism but I bet you collect your social security check and would apply for medicaid if you needed it.

We’ve already achieved the balance: Capitalism with a sprinkle of Socialism. The majority socialism of the Democrat presidential candidates would destroy our economic system, just as it did to Russia, China, Vietnam, and Venezuela.

[Katniss]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with this.  That is what capitalism is at it's core, rigged to enhance the rich, using the poor as slaves.  I know politics and elections are all about who can pay more to get their candidate elected.

I'm almost in agreement with you, Desertrat56, except it's not really capitalism, it's some of the crooked capitalist, vulture capitalist, banks, Bernie Madoff. (Wow! His last name says it all doesn't it?) So really it's capitalist that need to be kept in check.

And isn't interesting there is much preaching about socialism in this thread, when not one word in that article mentions anything about socialism? Freudian slips?

[+Desertrat56]

37 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

Well... I am still waiting for that tax break he mentioned in the beginning but I'm not too upset over it, Nancy's had him pretty busy and she comes first.

Who promised a tax break?  I think it was an additional tax break for the rich that was promised, not for the people.

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, Katniss said:

I'm almost in agreement with you, Desertrat56, except it's not really capitalism, it's some of the crooked capitalist, vulture capitalist, banks, Bernie Madoff. (Wow! His last name says it all doesn't it?) So really it's capitalist that need to be kept in check.

And isn't interesting there is much preaching about socialism in this thread, when not one word in that article mentions anything about socialism? Freudian slips?

Yes that is interesting.  People are afraid we will end up like Russia or China, but that won't happen.  And at the core of capitalism is what I said, rigged for the rich.  We have checks and balances because of democracy and representation, which we are loosing every time someone gets elected that is more concerned about his bank balance than his job to represent us.  No, capitalism needs balance and we already have some socialist policies in place, that are good policies.  It's just that some people are polarized and only repeat what someone else told them.  They don't think things through and they can't see the big picture.  We had a good system and it is being eroded by corporate policies against human policies.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Myles]

3 hours ago, Eldorado said:

 

"This message is likely to resonate with many Americans. Seven-in-ten U.S. adults say the economic system in their country unfairly favors powerful interests, compared with less than a third who say the system is generally fair to most Americans.

"Wide majorities of Americans also say politicians, large corporations and people who are wealthy have too much power and influence in today’s economy."

Full monty at Pew Research: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/09/70-of-americans-say-u-s-economic-system-unfairly-favors-the-powerful/

That should be expected.    Of course people who are not rich are usually going to say that the rich have it better.   

[aztek]

our economic system is build by rich,  poor do not build economies.

also in usa ANYONE can become rich, anyone who has  a desire, and willing to work to get there, as many thousands of not millions did. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by aztek

[Big Jim]

On the contrary, the American system is rigged to make people rich.  There are thousands of instances of immigrants coming here with next to nothing and by applying hard work and ingenuity to the available opportunities they became rich.  There are similar tales of people from all walks of life.  People who have risen from the ghetto, or single parent homes, trailer parks, etc. and made good.  Since wealth and power go hand in hand it may give the appearance that our system favors the wealthy, but it could also be argued that the wealthy keep our system going.  I've never been hired by someone poorer than me.  Every job I've ever had was because some one before me worked to make themselves rich.  In doing so they employed thousands of people without their drive, grit and determination.  All the things we enjoy and depend on exist because someone thought of it as a way to make money.  They say that necessity is the mother of invention, and that's true for the first thing.  If you want toast, invent the toaster.  But they start selling them to earn money, thereby sharing their good idea with the rest of the world.  I have never understood the animosity that people have for the rich when everyone of them would trade places in a second if they could.  I've never been rich, or even close, but I recognize it's because my priorities are different, my talents less.  But my opportunities have been the same.

[+Desertrat56]

52 minutes ago, Myles said:

That should be expected.    Of course people who are not rich are usually going to say that the rich have it better.   

I don't think that is what the article says but ok.  I don't think the rich have it better, but it does cost them less interest on a loan than poor people pay, just as one example of how capitalism works.  And those "powerful interests" are not people, they are corporations and large companies.

[Space Commander Travis]

US economic system rigged to favor the rich

No, really? 

[Big Jim]

56 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I don't think the rich have it better, but it does cost them less interest on a loan than poor people pay, just as one example of how capitalism works. 

Interest rates are proportionate to the risks the lenders are taking.  Rich people get lower rates because they usually have a better credit rating and they also have assets to be seized if they default.  Poor people are often poor because they lack money management skills resulting in a poor credit rating.  But the preferential treatment is based more on your past demonstration of trustworthiness than your net worth.  I'm currently as poor as I've ever been but I have a credit rating of 805 because I've made a habit of living within my means and paying my bills.  I have no trouble getting a loan at a good rate but I don't borrow what I don't need.

[Big Jim]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

, using the poor as slaves

Do you really feel like a slave at your job?  I've had some crummy jobs but I never confused my status as a free man with the lot of a slave.  Almost every self made rich person has had numerous regular jobs before setting out on their own.  Often the idea that made them rich came from the job they were doing.  Others worked a day job to survive while they plied their genius in the garage at night.  None had to cut chains and run and hide to avoid being dragged back to the assembly line.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, and then said:

The socialist mantra never really changes.  It just waits until people forget the bloodbaths that accompany it EVERY TIME.  Seems we just need to relearn the lesson every few generations that NOTHING IS FREE.  You cannot forcibly steal what belongs to others by using the government to do it and then expect the government to actually raise the standard of living for everyone.  It never works.  All it ever accomplishes is to bring everyone down to the same level of poverty, misery and hopelessness. 

Capitalism is far from perfect but it's still the best system available for benefit to the largest numbers of people.  

Nothing is free including being rich. You do not need to forcibly steal from others, nor will you raise the standard of living for everyone.  You do not need to bring everybody down to the same level.  Most importantly, you do not need to abandon the principles of capitalism.  Reward for effort is something worth maintaining.

Tax codes are written by mere mortals and do not serve to level the playing field.  Most have the "Help" of lobbyists in their formulation and creation of specific loopholes.  Few are designed to benefit average working citizens.  

Rewards and taxes for various levels of income can be varied  as long as reward for effort is maintained.  

 

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Do you really feel like a slave at your job?  I've had some crummy jobs but I never confused my status as a free man with the lot of a slave.  Almost every self made rich person has had numerous regular jobs before setting out on their own.  Often the idea that made them rich came from the job they were doing.  Others worked a day job to survive while they plied their genius in the garage at night.  None had to cut chains and run and hide to avoid being dragged back to the assembly line.

I do sometimes feel like a slave because I don't get to use my time as I want.  But it is not my employer that makes me feel that way, it is the fact that in order to survive (I could if I lived on the street, but don't like that option) I need to work to earn money to pay for things.  And you can compare people like me or people in really bad financial situations with wealthy if you want but for me it is not a real comparison even if someone claims to have started with nothing, they had some advantage.  Yes, there are stories of real people who pulled themselves up from a gutter into a tower but those are a small percentage of the people in the towers.  I think it is a lie that anyone in the U.S. can start with nothing and build a financial empire.  Maybe 150 years ago, but not today.  It is the kind of thing a MLM person tells you to get you to buy into their pyramid.

[spartan max2]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

How about if we just learn balance, capitalism balanced with democracy.  No such thing as balance on this planet if humans are involved.  You claim to be against socialism but I bet you collect your social security check and would apply for medicaid if you needed it.

I agree with balance.

I just disagree with your opening statement of "that's what capitalism is at its core". 

At its core capitalism is the voluntary exchange of goods and services. Where the individual decides what they do with their money. 

[Big Jim]

7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I do sometimes feel like a slave because I don't get to use my time as I want.  But it is not my employer that makes me feel that way, it is the fact that in order to survive (I could if I lived on the street, but don't like that option) I need to work to earn money to pay for things.  And you can compare people like me or people in really bad financial situations with wealthy if you want but for me it is not a real comparison even if someone claims to have started with nothing, they had some advantage.  Yes, there are stories of real people who pulled themselves up from a gutter into a tower but those are a small percentage of the people in the towers.  I think it is a lie that anyone in the U.S. can start with nothing and build a financial empire.  Maybe 150 years ago, but not today.  It is the kind of thing a MLM person tells you to get you to buy into their pyramid.

Of course you don't get to use your time as you want.  But that's not because you're a slave, it's because it's not your time anymore.  You sold it for money.  We all need to work to survive.  That's the way of the world.  I worked all my life, until I couldn't anymore. I never got rich but I survived and that was enough for me.  I think you have the numbers backwards.  There are probably more self made people than those who've had some advantage.  I guess it depends on what you call advantage.  Good parents, good education, good genes certainly help but they're not exclusive to old money.  Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and many others all made their money much more recently than 150 years ago.  They all had an idea and ran with it.  

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Of course you don't get to use your time as you want.  But that's not because you're a slave, it's because it's not your time anymore.  You sold it for money.  We all need to work to survive.  That's the way of the world.  I worked all my life, until I couldn't anymore. I never got rich but I survived and that was enough for me.  I think you have the numbers backwards.  There are probably more self made people than those who've had some advantage.  I guess it depends on what you call advantage.  Good parents, good education, good genes certainly help but they're not exclusive to old money.  Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and many others all made their money much more recently than 150 years ago.  They all had an idea and ran with it.  

And it's important to remember money is just in place of goods.

We use time to get money because it saves us more time then if we had to hunt, forage, farm, make our own clothes, etc, or then if we had to trade goods for goods.

Money is actually a great invention.

Edited January 9, 2020 by spartan max2

[Big Jim]

5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

No such thing as balance on this planet if humans are involved. 

If there is no such thing as balance then there is no use complaining about it.  Work with what we do have instead of comparing our situation to Utopia and dwelling on our lack.  Everyone who has done well in this world shares the same world as you and I.  They used it differently.  I don't regret it.  I made my choices and I chose to live with the things I had no choice over.  Someone richer than me built the house I live in and the car I drive.  They are responsible for the plumbing and electric I rely on.  I don't resent them, I'm grateful.

[Big Jim]

6 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Seven-in-ten U.S. adults say the economic system in their country unfairly favors powerful interests, compared with less than a third who say the system is generally fair to most Americans.

Tapping into peoples' sense of jealousy, envy and entitlement is a poor way to define reality.  All this proves is that people still believe that the grass is greener on the other side.  It's not the same as a picture of the actual grass.