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tortugabob

Oklahoma Buried In Wind Turbine Waste

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tortugabob

Landfills in the American state of Oklahoma can't keep up with all the "recyclable"  wind turbine blades being scrapped.  State regulators say they will have to open new landfills to keep up with the industry's scrap.  Members of the state legislature said they will go to Washington to demand government funding to help out.  "We never thought that by covering our state with wind turbines we'd  have this much waste.  They told us that the blades would last for decades but they don't,"  one member said.  "Now it's just the blades going into the landfills.  What happens when they want to "recycle"  the main parts of the turbines?" https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-01-10/renewable-green-energy-myth-50000-tons-non-recyclable-wind-turbine-blades-dumped

 

 

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Jujo-jo

Yep, I seen that coming! Good, it's about time the issue will be going to Washington. The other day I drove by an area with wind turbines and I saw about 6 dead birds that I could count, laying dead in the agricultural field below one, and they wonder what is happening to all of the birds and why our food is contaminated. 

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tmcom
Quote

German power prices have rocketed; blackouts and load shedding are the norm; and idyllic rural communities are now industrial wastelands (see picture).

Hundreds of billions of euros have been squandered on subsidies to wind and solar, all in an effort to reduce carbon dioxide gas emissions. However, that objective has failed too: CO2 emissions continue to rise.

Yes, this is what the non-thinking, action taking CCC are leaving for our children, landful full of windturbine blades, a landscape of the things, breaking down and sitting idle, and no memory of wild eagles.

Quote

I have to tell you; I am simply amazed at the level of INSANITY and STUPIDITY taking place by individuals, companies, corporations, and countries that are ramping up wind and solar energy.  They are a complete disaster and will only get worse as time goes by.

Yes, overwhelming evidence that sea levels are not rising, but since junk sites and mass media and Google says it is then it is, eventhough it isn't!

Blind faith and individuals that don't think anymore, and blame the climate instead of taking responsibility for their stuffups is what is happening. And in the meantime humanity add's, a fraction of an increase in CO2, or add's something to the 0.04 global CO2 amounts, which is pretty funny or negligible overall.

THat is why China, India and the like don't give a ....ck, because it is tiny,

Investment into W/S has stalled the last three months, in my state, which is good to see, and ScoMo is going to build a gas plant in our state next year, to shore up our supply since our idiot premier is an idiot!

^_^

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Not A Rockstar

Personally, I like solar and think every house should have a panel for some usages to reduce demand for power. Wind, I do not like what it does to birds. I think the answer is more moderation and some sanity about what sort of power to use wisest in a given situation. I have been giving thought to making my old house out here in nowhere more self sufficient and maybe take it off grid more than it is. That may be something I work on this year. 

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Farmer77

Weird its almost like a regulation could have stopped this from happening........nahhh regulations are baaaaad right?

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tmcom

How often do coal fired power plants blow debri in all directions, or collapse? Never for our state.

100 years and we will have junk, debri and inoraple or barely moving wind turbines as far as the eye can see, to give to the next generation.

Yes, mass media get off, of doom and gloom to sell papers, and why do this things collapse? Stress on the structure, due to the blades pushing against wind gusts, or when wind blows it occasionally gusts, which puts extra strain or stress on the stem.

Pretty obvious, unless you are dancing around the base, sacrificing disbelievers and such!

:P

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Doug1029
18 hours ago, tortugabob said:

Landfills in the American state of Oklahoma can't keep up with all the "recyclable"  wind turbine blades being scrapped.  State regulators say they will have to open new landfills to keep up with the industry's scrap.  Members of the state legislature said they will go to Washington to demand government funding to help out.  "We never thought that by covering our state with wind turbines we'd  have this much waste.  They told us that the blades would last for decades but they don't,"  one member said.  "Now it's just the blades going into the landfills.  What happens when they want to "recycle"  the main parts of the turbines?" https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-01-10/renewable-green-energy-myth-50000-tons-non-recyclable-wind-turbine-blades-dumped

 

 

That's because they failed to plan ahead for new landfills and are now trying to blame their lack of foresight on the wind industry.

Blades usually last 20 to 30 years.  There are two windfarms that have been here since 2001 and are now having to replace some of their older turbines.  These windfarms originally installed 100 Mv machines and are now wanting to upgrade to 225 Mv machines.  So some of those wind turbines are being retired early.  The state requires that a turbine's site must be cleaned up before a new machine can be installed.  Our local landfill officials have known for 20 years that this was coming and still have done nothing - no landfill lasts forever.

The turbine's magnet contains re-cyclable rare earths and is worth a small fortune for that purpose.  If you are replacing a windmill with a like-powered one, you can just unbolt the magnet and move it to the new machine, or you can melt it down, recast it and put it into a bigger one.  Anyway, it's worth a bundle.  Steel framing is also worth quite a bit as scrap.  Bt about that carbon-composite shell:  you could crush it and use it for concrete filler, but if you don't have a market, it's probably headed for the landfill.

 

Congratulations.  You managed to find Oklahoma's only wind-mill caused fire.  It was five acres near Weatherford, Oklahoma.  I've been on some big fires - this isn't one.  It was put out by the Weatherford Volunteer Fire Department.  We get a lot of grass fires during dry periods.  Oklahomans are pretty sloppy about fire safety so there are lots of these little things to fight.

The claim is made that the wind industry is not regulated.  Here is a UK safety manual for wind:   https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.renewableuk.com/resource/resmgr/docs/health_&_safety/WTSR_Guidance_2018.pdf  128 pages.

Here's an article on technician safety:  https://foundation.assp.org/docs/ASSE_Wind_Turbine_Safety_12.pdf

Here's one from the US:  https://www.osha.gov/dep/greenjobs/windenergy.html  I don't know what Trump thinks about this.  He is opposed to safety regulations, but he is also an enemy of the wind industry.  I bet he doesn't know that thye have safety rules.

"Lack of insurance" is mainly a lack of storm insurance.  Insurers don't want to risk insuring something that sticks way up in the air where it is subject to wind damage.  This is mostly due to a lack of data on the different types of machines and their vulnerability.  If you're trying to insure a 500 Mv machine, where do you go for actuarial data?  There's only one other machine out there and it has only been around a few years.  The wind industry doesn't yet know how big windmills will eventually get.  Bigger ones are more efficient, but they are harder to build, more expensive and there is no insurance data on them.

 

I am surprised that you guys are unable to check out this stuff for yourselves.  All the information you need, pro and con, is available on line.  Why do you always want me to do your homework for you?  OK.  Maybe I'm just a sucker.

Doug

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tortugabob

Doug always has excuses.  He sounds like a vested interest.

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Golden Duck
14 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Personally, I like solar and think every house should have a panel for some usages to reduce demand for power. Wind, I do not like what it does to birds. I think the answer is more moderation and some sanity about what sort of power to use wisest in a given situation. I have been giving thought to making my old house out here in nowhere more self sufficient and maybe take it off grid more than it is. That may be something I work on this year. 

Buildings cause death to birds. They fly into glass all the time.

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Doug1029
10 minutes ago, tortugabob said:

Doug always has excuses.  He sounds like a vested interest.

Actually, I do.  I'm an American patriot who wants the best for his country.  That includes the cheapest possible electricity.  Presently, windmills are the cheapest, but it looks like perovskites are closing the gap.  Gas-fired turbines are still cheaper than perovskites, but I'm thinking that may last only a few more years.  What I'm wondering is whether perovskites can catch wind.  How about that:  each house self-sufficient, no power lines, no obvious solar panels, no wind towers.  And cheaper than any other form of electric power.  Is that just a pipe dream?  Maybe.  But five years from now it might happen.  Wind could become as obsolete as coal.

Doug

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Not A Rockstar
1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

Buildings cause death to birds. They fly into glass all the time.

Hey Duck :)

Your point must be missing me, unless you meant that because other things can kill birds, there is no need to improve on present "green" technology to have less of a bird kill rating? There are efforts to do this, and it gets discussed well in this article https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds#

I will be glad if they do improve on it, as it is a good potential for some.

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Golden Duck
24 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Hey Duck :)

Your point must be missing me, unless you meant that because other things can kill birds, there is no need to improve on present "green" technology to have less of a bird kill rating? There are efforts to do this, and it gets discussed well in this article https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds#

I will be glad if they do improve on it, as it is a good potential for some.

Quote

...

Bird-window collisions are an unfortunate side-effect of urban environments and are a proven problem in Minnesota and throughout the world. Every year, hundreds of millions of birds in the U.S. die as a result.

...

https://www.audubon.org/news/building-collisions-kill-hundreds-millions-birds-year#

There are some estimates going up to a billion bird deaths caused by high rise urban environments.  This thread is sensationalising the environmental impact of green energy.

Trying to compare a grass fire to a Coal-Fired Power Plant Explosion is disingenuous.  Then there's oil spills and exploding gas pipelines.

Is there equivalent legislation mandating the use of SO_2 scrubbers?

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third_eye
5 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

I am surprised that you guys are unable to check out this stuff for yourselves.  All the information you need, pro and con, is available on line.  Why do you always want me to do your homework for you?  OK.  Maybe I'm just a sucker.

Doug

It's okay Doug, they'd rather wallow in ignorance even when they know they clearly sees the evidence. 

~

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tmcom
3 hours ago, tortugabob said:

Doug always has excuses.  He sounds like a vested interest.

Yes, he should consider moving into becoming a high pressure salesman at coffee shops selling condominiums?

43 minutes ago, third_eye said:

It's okay Doug, they'd rather wallow in ignorance even when they know they clearly sees the evidence. 

~

True we like evil things like facts and evidence.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/

Quote

The point of running through these numbers is to demonstrate that it is utterly futile, on a priori grounds, even to think that wind power can make any significant contribution to world energy supply, let alone to emissions reductions, without ruining the planet. As the late David MacKay pointed out years back, the arithmetic is against such unreliable renewables.

Buildings kill birds,lol, most of the time birds survive window strikes, frickin huge blades swirling around kill birds!

These monstrosities are to generate a trickle of power, and for greenies to dance around, nothing more. Gas exploration and Gas power plants is the best short term solution.

^_^

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Not A Rockstar
2 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

There are some estimates going up to a billion bird deaths caused by high rise urban environments.  This thread is sensationalising the environmental impact of green energy.

Not so much. I live in a small 125 year old cabin in the Louisiana back woods. No high rises here. I am making a statement about my opinion on wind turbines, which are more common in the rurals than downtown Manhattan with high rises etc. My interest is as someone progressively going off grid with my home here. I moved away from urbanism and that mess, for my mess here. Not sure how I got your attention as someone trying to make a big deal about much of anything, let alone high rises killing millions of birds. Fact is that of the green options for power, wind turbines kill the most birds. Not all of the options, just green options.

The topic is turbines and what they add or detract from the environment. Were it to go viral then maybe it would be sensational, but atm it is just a few of UM's opinionated "experts" chatting.

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Doug1029

The US is currently generating about 8% of its power using 60,000 windmills.  Add to that the 14% being generated by water and we're already one-fifth of the way to WWS.  My wind figures are a bit dated, however.  I'll see if I can find some newer ones for you.

That's essentially correct, though there are different numbers from different sources.  The goal is to generate 10% of our power from wind by the end of next year.  That will require about 75,000 windmills.  That's 1500 windmills at $3 million each - about the same as an Oklahoma oil well.

A wind turbine has a minimum of 20 years life expectancy, up to 30 years.  The average wind turbine has been around for seven years.

Perovskites were just discovered in 2009.  It has taken 10 years, but they are now poised to take over the renewable energy market.

We should make it to 25% of our power from renewables in about three years.

Doug

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third_eye
38 minutes ago, tmcom said:

True we like evil things like facts and evidence.

You mean like shooting "test" missiles into the air and let fall down back to earth? 

~

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Golden Duck
47 minutes ago, tmcom said:

Yes, he should consider moving into becoming a high pressure salesman at coffee shops selling condominiums?

True we like evil things like facts and evidence.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/

Buildings kill birds,lol, most of the time birds survive window strikes, frickin huge blades swirling around kill birds!

These monstrosities are to generate a trickle of power, and for greenies to dance around, nothing more. Gas exploration and Gas power plants is the best short term solution.

^_^

Did you calculate how much power would be produced from coal?  2500 kWh per tonne?  150 tonnes would produce 0.375 MWh compared to the turbine's 5 MWh per annum.

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Doug1029
10 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Did you calculate how much power would be produced from coal?  2500 kWh per tonne?  150 tonnes would produce 0.375 MWh compared to the turbine's 5 MWh per annum.

Estimates are that four species will be exterminated by each coal plant built.  But the price of coal is in free fall in the US.  Gas, wind and oil are cheaper and easier to use.  Also less polluting.  Electric companies are shifting to those.  Obama tried to phase out coal - now markets are doing it.  Trump be damned.

Doug

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Golden Duck
24 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Not so much. I live in a small 125 year old cabin in the Louisiana back woods. No high rises here. I am making a statement about my opinion on wind turbines, which are more common in the rurals than downtown Manhattan with high rises etc. My interest is as someone progressively going off grid with my home here. I moved away from urbanism and that mess, for my mess here. Not sure how I got your attention as someone trying to make a big deal about much of anything, let alone high rises killing millions of birds. Fact is that of the green options for power, wind turbines kill the most birds. Not all of the options, just green options.

The topic is turbines and what they add or detract from the environment. Were it to go viral then maybe it would be sensational, but atm it is just a few of UM's opinionated "experts" chatting.

I'm not singling you out, per se. You just replied to me.  Anyone else is free to reply.

Going by the OP's form this thread is tendentious..  But if Oklahoma have a waste management problem and have no alternative to landfill that's not really a valid idictment on the idea of wind power. 

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Not A Rockstar
16 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

I'm not singling you out, per se. You just replied to me.  Anyone else is free to reply.

Going by the OP's form this thread is tendentious..  But if Oklahoma have a waste management problem and have no alternative to landfill that's not really a valid idictment on the idea of wind power. 

I would never say wind power is a bad idea. Just that like anything else, it can always be better. For where I am and my needs it would be overkill for my small acreage here, but a couple solar panels would handle 90% of my needs when these storms wipe me off grid for as much as a week before they get to us out here :)  Then, I thought, hey how hard would it be to go off the grid for power needs all the time? I am working on that now to see what it would really need. The fridge is about the biggest power hog we own here. This may be doable easier than I think, and why not if I can do it? If I sink a well, maybe an old style wind mill would do enough for my needs for water. I know where a spring crosses underground so I think this can happen without even going very far down. 

There may be better material to use now for blades that breaks down easier, for one thing. There is so much research going on nowadays with the greater concerns for plastics and that sort of issue. 

I didn't feel attacked, you never have been like that to me, just I was feeling we were talking at cross purpose and were not really arguing :) I don't like wind as an option for me because of the bird issue, but in the big scheme of things they kill like what? 1% of birds dying of mishaps? 

Anyway, hope your evening is great.

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Golden Duck
9 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Estimates are that four species will be exterminated by each coal plant built.  But the price of coal is in free fall in the US.  Gas, wind and oil are cheaper and easier to use.  Also less polluting.  Electric companies are shifting to those.  Obama tried to phase out coal - now markets are doing it.

Doug

It should probably be said that it's not valid to compare the use metallurgical coal and thermal coal.  There's no other way to make steel.  The Spectator (UK) conflates the usage.

Sulfur emissions aren't spoken about a lot.  In Australia sub-bituminous coal is classified as black coal; whereas, in the rest of the world it's called brown.

 

 

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Doug1029
17 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

It should probably be said that it's not valid to compare the use metallurgical coal and thermal coal.  There's no other way to make steel.  The Spectator (UK) conflates the usage.

Sulfur emissions aren't spoken about a lot.  In Australia sub-bituminous coal is classified as black coal; whereas, in the rest of the world it's called brown.

The iron and steel industry located in Pittsburg because there was lots of wood there for charcoal.  They went through that pretty fast and had to switch to coal.  Wood is used in copper smelting right down to today.

Good point on coal grades.  In eastern Kentucky they call it "Kentucky smoke."

Doug

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tmcom
3 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Did you calculate how much power would be produced from coal?  2500 kWh per tonne?  150 tonnes would produce 0.375 MWh compared to the turbine's 5 MWh per annum.

Yeah, AU has at least 80 years of coal left, that is relatively cheap to dig up and burn, (maybe 400 years) with the added bonus of it working 24/7, and not exploding, killing off scores of predictor y birds, or collapsing on a College.

:P

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toast

As the article is full of nonsens and false informations I feel forced to give claryfication to the ignorant.

Quote

There is so much information out there about this "Intermittency" problem, let me provide a perfect example taking place in Germany.  Germany installed one hell of a lot of wind and solar, and it is now becoming a nightmare because they are suffering from black-outs,

There was only one big blackout in Germany. It was in 1978 and limited to North Germany only and caused by a snow disaster. Number of blackouts in Germany caused by power dificiency since then: zero.

Quote

... while at the same time their citizens are paying some of the highest electricity rates in Europe

Thats correct but we pay these high rates not because the (wind-) electricity itself is expensive but because every bill contains a share of investment capital to finance the great plan, means, to get independant from fossile fuel generated power in future by building up wind-/solar-/biomass-/hydro power. Once finished, the rates will decline, to the benefit of us German citizen and to the benefit of our enviroment as well. In 2019, Germany generated 46,2% of its energy by renewable energy sources. Target is 80% by 2050.

Quote

Germany’s wind and solar experiment have failed: the so-called ‘Energiewende’ (energy transition) has turned into an insanely costly debacle.

BS as well. See my comment above.

Quote

 ... and idyllic rural communities are now industrial wastelands (see picture).

The image should give the impression all our cities and villages to be surrounded by a forest of wind turbines, which is total nonsense. The image was taken with a big telephoto lens, which made the "near-by" effect.

Recycling issue: of course, old wind turbine units are waste but they are recyclable. The units are not just blades but also concrete, copper, steel, aluminium and others. Also the blades can be recycled but it needs the according technology/infrastructure. If the needed technology/infrastructure isnt available, the problem is not the blades but the current unsatisfactory technology/infrastructure in a region.

Edited by toast
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