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Great Pyramid hidden chamber set for re-scan

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Windowpane
10 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Exactly. They burnt down the Library, honestly and this is speaking as a Christian, that one event was a crime against humanity we should have spent millennia paying penance for.

Well: the history of the library was perhaps not quite so straightforward as we sometimes think, Sir Wearer  ... One fire was started (possibly accidentally) during the time of Julius Caesar, and apparently caused some damage to a warehouse where documents were stored.  The library then recovered to some extent, but probably suffered more destruction during the time of the later Roman emperors.  The complete destruction of the Serapeum, its daughter library, apparently took place during the time of  the Coptic Pope Theophilus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria)

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Windowpane
4 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

Oh FFS!! THIS is the kind of petty, hair-splitting, pendantic obtuseness I have come to expect from you.

This being your description of getting things right, about which (so you have told us) you don't give a rat's fart.

As for the video, is there something stopping you from transcribing more than one phrase?  Or showing us the context of Guirguis' remarks?  Try starting a few seconds earlier:

We see that Guirguis is responding to a question (and quite a leading question) from Dr. Saad.  Unfortunately, vague talk of "the Egyptian spirit" does not translate to "The Copts have comprehensive knowledge of the civilisation of ancient Egypt, going back as far as the building of the pyramids."  Nothing in what she says warrants imputing to her a belief that every Coptic legend (Surid included) is true.  The example she forwards is the well-known and perfectly sound one of the Coptic language.

I suggest you quit imputing your nonsense to Dr. Fatin Morris Guirguis.

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Scott Creighton
7 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

This being your description of getting things right, about which (so you have told us) you don't give a rat's fart.

As for the video, is there something stopping you from transcribing more than one phrase?  Or showing us the context of Guirguis' remarks?  Try starting a few seconds earlier:

We see that Guirguis is responding to a question (and quite a leading question) from Dr. Saad.  Unfortunately, vague talk of "the Egyptian spirit" does not translate to "The Copts have comprehensive knowledge of the civilisation of ancient Egypt, going back as far as the building of the pyramids."  Nothing in what she says warrants imputing to her a belief that every Coptic legend (Surid included) is true.  The example she forwards is the well-known and perfectly sound one of the Coptic language.

I suggest you quit imputing your nonsense to Dr. Fatin Morris Guirguis.

No, Hermione. Just NO.

Quote

 I am not claiming that Dr Guirguis (or Saad) supports my hypothesis at all, only that the research of Dr Guirguis might. - From here.

SC

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Scott Creighton
1 hour ago, Windowpane said:
SC: That's not what I said. I said I don't have a JSTOR account.

Hermione: If you have the paper, why did you not just say so?  Why the irrelevant declaration that you don't have a JSTOR account?

Because it’s not irrelevant if others who might (insanely) be following this discourse don’t have a JSTOR account. It’s not irrelevant if you continue to send me other JSTOR papers I don’t already have.

Quote

SC  ... and NO, it does not say that the Surid narrative was a purely Muslim or Christian invention.

Harmione: Calling it "The Sūrid Legend" in a paper about "the Arabic Legends of the Pyramids" is an adequate indication of the status Fodor assigned to this material.

 Legend? Legend you say? Well blow me down! Who knew?

In case it’s escaped your attention, these Coptic oral narratives (Arab Legends) have been regarded merely as myth and legend by mainstream Egyptology for a very long time; to be dismissed without a second thought. That Fodor does likewise is, well, hardly unexpected. Because – you know -  Egyptology has all the answers with regards to whys and whatfors of these ancient monuments. Yes, we have all the answers we need. Nothing to see here. Move along now.

Whereas I say, “Hmm – no. Let’s not be so hasty. Let’s have another look at these so-called ‘legends’.”

Quote

Hermione: Whereas you (it would seem) believe the story about this being written on a "papyrus roll" (p. 347):

 Quote

This writing had been written in the first year of the rule of king Diocletian. We had it copied from a writing that had been written the first year of the rule of king Philippos. Philippos had it copied from a golden sheet whose writing was incised letter by letter. It was an ancient writing. It was translated to him by two brothers from among the Copts. One was named Īlū, the other Barthā. King Philippos asked them what was the reason why they could read what other men could not. They related that they descended from a man who had been one of the ancient inhabitants of Egypt. None of the Egyptians escaped from the Flood except him. The reason of his escape was that he went to Noah (May peace be upon Him!) and he believed him. He was the only one among the Egyptians who went to him. And he took him along to the Ark with himself. When the Flood was gone, he came to Egypt and with him came some of the sons of Cham, son of Noah. He lived there till his death. His son inherited the knowledge of the writing of Egypt's ancient people. And we inherited it from him, from father to son.

This being the preamble (in the version of al-Quḍā‛ī) to the Surid story.

However, if you don't believe it, why not?

No, Hermione. I don’t believe everything that has been written in these so-called Arab ‘legends’ and I have already stated that elsewhere in this discussion. It seems that the Christian Copts and later again, the Muslim, embellished, conflated and assimilated many elements of these ‘legends’ for their own political/religious ends. That happens throughout history. But one consistent thing I observe in the various versions of the Surid ‘legend’ that come down from the various Arabic interpretations is that they virtually all tell us that Surid built the pyramids and did so in preparation of a coming deluge. That point is unfailingly consistent and that, to me, seems significant; that particular element of the Surid account seems to have survived and permeated through the various Arab translations: the pyramids were built by Surid in anticipation of a devastating deluge.

As you know, I have progressed (resurrected?) this idea in recent times with my ‘Recovery Vault’ hypothesis. I believe the so-called ‘star-shafts’ of the Great Pyramid show the stars moving out of their normal course, something that is consistent with the Coptic oral narrative. I have, over the years, presented various other pieces of circumstantial evidence which is supportive of the Recovery VauIt theory which I am not going to go into here.  (I’ve  written books on it). Did Surid (Suphis) place the bodies of his ancestors within the Great Pyramid?

I say it is entirely possible. I suggest these ancestor kings (and queens, including Hetephres I) will be found within the Big Void as per my article. [I should add here that, in terms of the recovery of the kingdom. the placing of the ancestor kings within this completely inaccessible Big Void 'chamber' would have been crucial to the success of the 'Recovery System' - these 'Osiris Kings' (and Queens) would have been vital to ensure the 'resurrection' or 'rebirth' of the kingdom after the devastating deluge. They were the 'key' to the success of the entire national 'Project Osiris'.]

And if that turns out to be the case then a big part of the Coptic oral narrative with regards to Surid (Suphis) will have been verified as fact and not mere ‘legend’.

But we will have to wait and see. I suspect now we are about to commence going around in circles, so, until that time....

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton
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Hanslune
2 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

But we will have to wait and see. I suspect now we are about to commence going around in circles, so, until that time....

SC

Yes we shall wait for the work to be done and as I predicted you'll accuse the Egyptologist of 'hiding' the real information when they don't find what you predict. However I was glad to see you deny that you will do that. Bookmarked We shall see whatever IS found will be interest if nothing more than sand, limestone, mortar and the odd work gang sign in ocher.

Additionally

Do some comprehensive research on the subjects you bring here instead of shallow demonstrations of cherry picking. Why did I say that? You ran from my question to simply provide other Coptic legends from the OK. Why produce only one? Do any more exist? If they did wouldn't they bolster your case? Youtube video.....JKC

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Windowpane
16 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

...

 Legend? Legend you say? Well blow me down! Who knew?

...

 
I suggest you try reading your own quote.
 
You stated (portentously) that the paper by Alexander Fodor:
 
Quote

does not say that the Surid narrative was a purely Muslim or Christian invention.

In rebuttal, I pointed out the conspicuous indications that Fodor considered "the Surid narrative" to be legendary.

What Fodor said (or failed to say) mattered, when you thought that it suited you.  But, when suddenly you found that it didn't, and that you'd wrongfooted yourself, you resorted to unwarranted sarcasm.
 
Unfortunately for your comment about "mainstream Egyptology", it seems to have escaped your attention that Fodor Sándor (Alexander Fodor) was an Arabist, not an Egyptologist.
 
More of the relevant content of his paper (pp. 361–362):
 
 
Quote

 

The exact time of the birth of the Sūrīd legend is impossible to establish. It shows a striking similarity to the prophecy of the Asclepius which could not have come into being earlier than in the 3rd century A. D. The circumstances of this century were especially favourable for the coming into being and spreading of various prophecies, of apocalyptic and Hermetic writings. As far as its components are concerned, the Sūrīd legend might well be placed in this period. It is interesting that the mention of Diocletian in the «authenticating apparatus» – whose turning up in this capacity is unusual – seems to corroborate this assumption.
 
The Christian influence manifest in the story indicates that it cannot have gained its final form earlier than the second half of the 3rd century. The development of the legend must have taken a longer time, so that only its final shape can be the work of a Christian. Naturally, the story was not handed down in an unchanged form by the Copts and the Arabs, but with minor changes and additions.

 

 
 
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Scott Creighton
1 hour ago, Windowpane said:
 

I didn't say Fodor was an Egyptologist. And, whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, he did concede this:

Quote

"On the basis of all this it seems logical to look for the origin of the elements of the [Surid] legend in the Egypt of the Hellenistic and the Pharonic Age." (My emphasis) - p16.

Which means, of course, it becomes entirely possible that (elements of) the Coptic Surid (Suphis) oral narrative may well go as far back as the pyramid-building age.

I think we're done here, Hermione. I'm not doing the circular dance with you.

Let's see what the Big Void reveals. If it reveals nothing then my theory is falsified.

Until then...

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Captain Risky

Well to throw in my 2 cents.

There seems to be two different theories on the shape of the 2 voids (yes there are 2 of them). If horizontal then yes it would most probably be a hidden room but if inclined more than likely a design change.

pyramid.jpg

Or...

Pe9fS72GpvyHjm2CpEBi2E.jpg

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Scott Creighton

What I find peculiar is the reports in a number of newspapers stating that the GP will be scanned again by the ScanPyramid project team in an attempt to confirm their 2017 results when the 2017 results have, seemingly, already been confirmed at the end of 2019 - see video below:

Certainly from the video (above) it seems there will be some additional tests in 2020 but I don't think these are to confirm the presence of the Big Void since the 2018-2019 tests seem to have already confirmed its presence. The newspaper articles (like the one linked above) seem somewhat misleading.

SC

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Windowpane
21 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

No, Hermione. Just NO.

 

A glance at a sample of your posts in this thread is sufficient to reveal how you have used the name and reputation of Dr. Guirguis to try and gain credence for your own nonsensical views.
 
Contrary to what you appear to think, your insistence that you're not doing the very thing that you obviously are doing isn't doing anything to bolster your credibility.
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cladking
1 hour ago, Scott Creighton said:

What I find peculiar is the reports in a number of newspapers stating that the GP will be scanned again by the ScanPyramid project team in an attempt to confirm their 2017 results when the 2017 results have, seemingly, already been confirmed at the end of 2019 - see video below:

Certainly from the video (above) it seems there will be some additional tests in 2020 but I don't think these are to confirm the presence of the Big Void since the 2018-2019 tests seem to have already confirmed its presence. The newspaper articles (like the one linked above) seem somewhat misleading.

SC

The new testing is being done from the queens chamber.  This is a funny spot from which to try to image something near the GRAND GALLERY.  

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Scott Creighton
16 minutes ago, cladking said:

The new testing is being done from the queens chamber.  This is a funny spot from which to try to image something near the GRAND GALLERY.  

 

16 minutes ago, cladking said:

The new testing is being done from the queens chamber.  This is a funny spot from which to try to image something near the GRAND GALLERY.  

Hi CK,

They scanned from the QC in 2017 (see vid @ 2m 40s). The 2018-19 scans were from the Ascending Passage, Grand Gallery and the Vyse Chambers, including Campbell's Chamber (see vid @ 4m 10s). The Vyse Chamber locations are significant because it means the muon scans are from above the Grand Gallery so there can be no possibility of  any 'reflection' or 'ghosting' from the small pockets on either side of the GG as per Dr Dave Lightbody's theory.

Cheers,

SC

Edited by Scott Creighton
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Windowpane
On 1/22/2020 at 8:43 AM, Scott Creighton said:

I didn't say Fodor was an Egyptologist.

 
You wrote this:
 
Quote

In case it’s escaped your attention, these Coptic oral narratives (Arab Legends) have been regarded merely as myth and legend by mainstream Egyptology for a very long time; to be dismissed without a second thought. That Fodor does likewise is, well, hardly unexpected. Because – you know -  Egyptology has all the answers with regards to whys and whatfors of these ancient monuments. Yes, we have all the answers we need. Nothing to see here. Move along now.

 

Anyone comparing what Fodor himself states about his connection with Egyptology with what you say here about that connection might come to an altogether different conclusion.
 
You discounted his views out of hand, except for those you thought you could turn into rhetoric, as again here:
 
Quote

On the basis of all this it seems logical to look for the origin of the elements of the legend in the Egypt of the Hellenistic and the Pharonic Age.  [My emphasis; p. 350 in the original journal numbering.]

 

This is not a conclusion.  It appears nearer the beginning than the end of Fodor's discussion of the Sūrīd legend.  Nor is it much of a concession, as all he says is that one could "logically" look for the elements of the legend in these periods: it doesn't say that he found them there.  He merely specifies what he's about to discuss.
 
Whereas what I quote above is Fodor's conclusion on the Sūrīd question.  We see that Fodor settled on the 3rd century AD as the likely time of origin of the Sūrīd legend.
Quote

Which means, of course, it becomes entirely possible that (elements of) the Coptic Surid (Suphis) oral narrative may well go as far back as the pyramid-building age.

 

On the contrary: there is no "of course," "possible" or  "may well" about it.
 
Fodor thought quite otherwise.
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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 1/23/2020 at 12:30 AM, Scott Creighton said:

 

Hi CK,

They scanned from the QC in 2017 (see vid @ 2m 40s). The 2018-19 scans were from the Ascending Passage, Grand Gallery and the Vyse Chambers, including Campbell's Chamber (see vid @ 4m 10s). The Vyse Chamber locations are significant because it means the muon scans are from above the Grand Gallery so there can be no possibility of  any 'reflection' or 'ghosting' from the small pockets on either side of the GG as per Dr Dave Lightbody's theory.

Cheers,

SC

OHH JEEZ don’t mention Vyse, it’ll summon that odd fellow who thinks Vyse forged quarry marks.

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Hanslune
4 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

OHH JEEZ don’t mention Vyse, it’ll summon that odd fellow who thinks Vyse forged quarry marks.

Not to worry we have the Window-of-pain and Stower to protect us from that ancient  and rather tedious evil.

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Not to worry we have the Window-of-pain and Stower to protect us from that ancient  and rather tedious evil.

I think Martin got banned because Mr. Red Paint was report happy. :hmm:

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Hanslune
15 hours ago, Piney said:

I think Martin got banned because Mr. Red Paint was report happy. :hmm:

You mean ocher baby?

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Piney
17 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

ocher baby

Beatiful! It's now his new nickname! 

:nw:

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Megaro

The 2019 Scan Pyramids video is fascinating.  The amount of detail shown in the known interior features of the GP is incredibly good.  I am skeptical of any huge new finds, but if any are made, I hope some credit goes to whoever humped that gear up those rickety ladders to get to the relieving chambers. 

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