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Still Waters

Attenborough warns of climate 'crisis moment'

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Still Waters

"The moment of crisis has come" in efforts to tackle climate change, Sir David Attenborough has warned.

According to the renowned naturalist and broadcaster, "we have been putting things off for year after year".

"As I speak, south east Australia is on fire. Why? Because the temperatures of the Earth are increasing," he said.

He told me it was "palpable nonsense" for some politicians and commentators to suggest that the Australian fires were nothing to do with the world becoming warmer.

"We know perfectly well," he said, that human activity is behind the heating of the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51123638

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tmcom

Funny thing is Attenborough, Greta and DeCaprio, can all bleat about impending tipping point and the like but China, India and the like don't give a ****

So the years roll by and the so called emergency becomes more dire, eventhough mother nature refuses to comply?

With any luck the faithful will become martyrs, and do us all a favor.

:P

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Piney
58 minutes ago, tmcom said:

Funny thing is Attenborough, Greta and DeCaprio, can all bleat about impending tipping point and the like but China, India and the like don't give a ****

India doesn't give a crap. China is making a huge effort to restore their forests and stop pollution. 

https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/lessons-china-large-scale-landscape-restoration

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/upshot/china-pollution-environment-longer-lives.html

 

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tmcom
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

And they are building as many coal fired power stations as is possible.

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Piney
12 minutes ago, tmcom said:

And they are building as many coal fired power stations as is possible.

Link? Source? 

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Essan
58 minutes ago, tmcom said:

And they are building as many coal fired power stations as is possible.

Whereas you'd rather the populace all lived in the dark in mud huts?


If China could keep up with their nations rapidly growing demand for power just through renewables, they would.  But short term, modern coal is the only viable solution.  This does not mean they are not aware of the impacts both for the environment and human health.   And they still lead the world in developing wind power.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/wind-energy-by-country/

(and note that India is 4th on the list - but they do still have a significant percentage of their population living in the dark in mud huts)

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Doug1029
On 1/16/2020 at 9:35 AM, tmcom said:

And they are building as many coal fired power stations as is possible.

China is building coal stations.  They are desperate for power.  They also have the world's largest work force dedicated to clean energy, like wind and solar.  This is how they get their society out of the middle ages.  What their long-term goals are, we can only guess at, but to me it looks they will begin reducing coal plants once they are fully powered.  If not, Trump has shown us how to bring them to heal - trade sanctions and tariffs.  But it is still too early for those.  Let them power up while we get our own house in order.

Australia could put a lot of pressure on them by refusing to sell them coal.  Perhaps get some financial considerations from the US as part of the bargain.

Doug

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Piney

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Doug1029

Even if this is a "crisis moment," we can't really do much about it in the short run.  We can achieve WWS by 2050, but that's 30 years away.  I think our only choice is to develop the best possible program we can and work toward meeting the goal of being achieving a WWS economy by 2050.  Panic reactions are as likely to produce the wrong results as the right ones.

Doug

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tmcom
On 1/17/2020 at 2:49 AM, Piney said:

Link? Source? 

https://www.wired.com/story/china-is-still-building-an-insane-number-of-new-coal-plants/

Quote

To meet its climate goal as stipulated in the Paris agreement, China will need to reduce its coal power capacity by 40 percent over the next decade, according to Global Energy Monitor’s analysis. At present, this seems unrealistic. In addition to roughly 1,000 gigawatts of existing coal capacity, China has 121 gigawatts of coal plants under construction, which is more than is being built in the rest of the world combined. But here’s the weird thing—more than half the time, China’s coal plants are just sitting around collecting dust. If China already has more coal power than it needs, why does it keep building new plants?

You will have to ignore this idiots ranting about city's being underwater and such, but he probably got this right, faily certain.

:sleepy:

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Golden Duck
On 1/18/2020 at 12:26 PM, tmcom said:

... faily certain.

:sleepy:

As long as it's what you want to hear.

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Raptor Witness

Unfortunately, we know that fire was a much bigger part of the prehistoric and primordial landscape than it is now. The American Indians, for example, were notorious for setting fires in order to re-nourish and replenish the land for the animals they needed to hunt for food.

Fire was so common before we had firefighters, that I suspect one of the key elements that allowed homo sapiens to survive, while their more chimp-like cousins perished, was the pervasive presence of fire in the landscape.

It wasn’t just how fast you were able to get away, it was about how smart you were, about where to get away.

Now, as we sit as the ultimate gaurantors of the ultimate fire, that being nuclear, it’s ironic that we seem to be having trouble differentiating good fire from bad fire. We seem incapable of making the right choices, not just for ourselves, before all the other creatures that live beneath us.

Can we argue that we ever deserved paradise, if we so carelessly ignored our own home, including the placement of most of the surface deposits of carbon, into the atmosphere, as an experiment of our ingenuity?

Setting fires that are too large to put out, would seem to be the final check and balance on our species. Who are we, to create a hell for every other species, beneath us, is a very easy question to ask.

Escaping our ingenuity, would seem the ultimate test for freedom from these temporary bodies. How does one species collectively care for itself or any other? Could the spirit of mankind ever rise above its own darkness? Perhaps with a little help, we can ....

Who thought to sacrifice Himself as an example of Divine humility, before we could even imagine becoming divine? Perhaps by sacrificing our collective pride, we can save not just ourselves, but the planet we live on.

How much trying does it take to deserve paradise? There is a tale of one thief, who had the answer.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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and then
Doug1029

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joc

Man made Global Climate Change is a hoax.  How many really think we are going to all perish in 10 years?   The entire idea is preposterous...and the number of people who buy into it is very perplexing.  It's easier to believe God created the entire Universe in 7 days than to believe the fires in Australia are burning because the Earth is too hot.  I personally cannot wait for summer in Dallas when it is 105 degrees F.   

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ChrLzs

Thought you were smarter than this, Joc.

39 minutes ago, joc said:

Man made Global Climate Change is a hoax.

A hoax that 99.9% of of meteorological scientists have fallen for - I mean, who would know more, you and 'and then' or them.  From my own perspective, I used to manage a marine research centre, and you would have been surprised (I wasn't) at how many other disciplines and aspects of our planet are affected by, and give indications of, the warming climate.  They were mostly marine biologists, or aquaculture experts or in other related fields, and golly, they seemed to know what they were talking about.  But again, who would one trust - working scientists with no motivation to lie or be fooled, or you and 'and then'?

And I'm sure all the data they collected (and I facilitated) that showed GW / CC, was in fact 'got at' by the ebil MIB....:wacko:

Quote

How many really think we are going to all perish in 10 years?

Who said that, and why would you try to characterise the science on this so shallowly, and in just one *false* sentence?  Got a bit of bias goin' there?

Quote

The entire idea is preposterous...

Yes, the idea you just cherry picked, that is not the mainstream view.

Quote

It's easier to believe God created the entire Universe in 7 days than to believe the fires in Australia are burning because the Earth is too hot.

What?  Where's your normal logic gone?  First up, you have created a false dichotomy - no-one said Oz is burning because 'the Earth is too hot'..  Again, that's a ridiculous way to present what the science says, which is:

- the fires across Oz currently are unprecedented, by orders of magnitude.  True, Joc?

- we have had the driest summer for a very, very, very long time.  True, Joc?

- we have had a stretch of hot weather and when added to the dryness, there's the primary reasons for your fires.  Agreed?

Now, would all of those things follow on from a hotter climate?  Yes or No, Joc?

So, would a person of sound mind think that this could indeed be another of the myriad of signs that we're screwing up the climate?

You know, all the signs you are shouting LALALA at?  

Quote

I personally cannot wait for summer in Dallas when it is 105 degrees F.   

I personally cannot wait until you consider that maybe you aren't as smart as all those sciency folk...

Edited by ChrLzs
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Doug1029
28 minutes ago, joc said:

Man made Global Climate Change is a hoax.  How many really think we are going to all perish in 10 years?   The entire idea is preposterous...and the number of people who buy into it is very perplexing.  It's easier to believe God created the entire Universe in 7 days than to believe the fires in Australia are burning because the Earth is too hot.  I personally cannot wait for summer in Dallas when it is 105 degrees F.   

First, I have just completed climate means for temperature and precipitation for all nine Oklahoma climate divisions.  I will post the graphs of those tomorrow.

A climate mean is a thirty-year running average for any climate metric you care to use.  In Oklahoma, temps rose 2F during the 20th century.  Precip rose between four and nine inches, depending on which climate district you're talking about.  Those were made directly from the instrumental data without estimation.  Those means PROVE that climate is changing, at least in Oklahoma.

Climate change does not predict we will all die in ten years.  Only some lunatics claim (or believe) that.  The science does not say that.

Australia is in a drought that started 25 years ago.  It got bad about seven years ago.  If you run a climate mean of precip for southeast Australia, I'm pretty sure it would show climate change, in both precip and temps.  But get ready for a surprise:  temps often go down during droughts.  The fires in Australia are burning so intensely because of drought.  Fuel moisture content, even in still-living plants, is below that of kiln-dried lumber (8%).  Fires do burn more intensely during hot weather and that is probably, but not necessarily, having an effect.

Another thought:  most plants actively fight fire by drawing water from the soil into leaves and small twigs, forcing the fire to boil the water before it can burn the plant.  But during droughts, there is little water available, so plants can't fight fire.

I'll post those graphs tomorrow.

Doug

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tmcom
6 hours ago, joc said:

Man made Global Climate Change is a hoax.  How many really think we are going to all perish in 10 years?   The entire idea is preposterous...and the number of people who buy into it is very perplexing.  It's easier to believe God created the entire Universe in 7 days than to believe the fires in Australia are burning because the Earth is too hot.  I personally cannot wait for summer in Dallas when it is 105 degrees F.   

But the faithful get off of this, so no matter what we say, the latest junk from Google is correct.

2019 was not the hottest year, sea levels are not rising, (Vic, AU summer, as an example has only started after the 20th of Dec, it used to start in Oct) and the list goes on, but some due to childhood drama and such have to believe in this, eventhough summers worldwide are milder, and winters are noticeably worse, or in other words, the planet is in the cooling phase of its natural cycle.

This cooling trend will continue for some time, and make this entire UN circus show up for what it is, (it already is, but some cannot and will-not submit).

And the fires were caused by a long drought, (not the worst) and idiots not reducing fuel loads, nothing more. And the weird weather this week, a cyclone and hot weather and a drought.

AU has a long history of drought and heavy rains after that, (l lived on a farm with an 8 year one, with plenty of rainfall at the end).

B)

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, tmcom said:

2019 was not the hottest year

You've been shown how many data points you need to demonstrate this.  Please upload when you can.

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joc
44 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

You've been shown how many data points you need to demonstrate this.  Please upload when you can.

Too many data points...to the point that if brush catches on fire, it's a result of Manmade Global Warming.  

I'm telling you this isn't all real science....but it is all real propaganda.  There is a reason why everyone on the left is screaming about Climate Change.  And it is not because we only have ten years left if we don't stop it.

Here is the real reason:

The Left must...MUST...limit the Energy Production Capability of the United States of America.  It is imperative.  Only by limiting the EPC of the USA can Russia ever hope to achieve anything substantial.   Having hypersonic missiles isn't substantial.  They are so far behind the US in terms of technology et al.  It is the sole reason why Trump MUST be stopped.  Because he is seen by the Left as the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan...who left the USSR lying on the dung heap of history.  If they don't stop Trump now...all of their work to recover supernation status over the last 3 decades will have been for nothing.

It's a hoax...and...it is a hoax born in the aftermath of the downfall of the Soviet Empire.  But if you propagandize people long enough and hard enough, eventually they will start to believe it...just look at all the scientific data they say....yeah ....look at it all you want.  Realize what it is...propaganda of the left. Nothing more.

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Essan

Where and when did science becomes a "leftie" conspiracy?    Were Gallieo, de Vinci, Newton, Edison and Einstein all Commies?

Rational, logical and the desire for truth are nothing to do with politics.   Those that try and make them so just reveal how deep rooted their prejudices and ignorances are.

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tmcom
1 hour ago, joc said:

Too many data points...to the point that if brush catches on fire, it's a result of Manmade Global Warming.  

I'm telling you this isn't all real science....but it is all real propaganda.  There is a reason why everyone on the left is screaming about Climate Change.  And it is not because we only have ten years left if we don't stop it.

Here is the real reason:

The Left must...MUST...limit the Energy Production Capability of the United States of America.  It is imperative.  Only by limiting the EPC of the USA can Russia ever hope to achieve anything substantial.   Having hypersonic missiles isn't substantial.  They are so far behind the US in terms of technology et al.  It is the sole reason why Trump MUST be stopped.  Because he is seen by the Left as the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan...who left the USSR lying on the dung heap of history.  If they don't stop Trump now...all of their work to recover supernation status over the last 3 decades will have been for nothing.

It's a hoax...and...it is a hoax born in the aftermath of the downfall of the Soviet Empire.  But if you propagandize people long enough and hard enough, eventually they will start to believe it...just look at all the scientific data they say....yeah ....look at it all you want.  Realize what it is...propaganda of the left. Nothing more.

And China can be added to that list as Trump keeps saying.

I love some of the comebacks, 99% of scientists agree, (we can ignore the odd, 5k or more of the heart Institute who dont, (probably 15k but l am not sure) and 500 who submitted a paper to the UN, saying it is crap, (YT that one) or "the desire for truth" lol, show overwhelming evidence sea levels are not rising and it is either goldfish thinking or ignoring AU, and Tasmania, as not counting since its sea levels don't do much, or the record snow falls in the US, etc.

It is ingrained brainwashing that has gone on for so long, that human beings that can say, "therefore l am" cannot see a lie in front of their eyes.

Countless predictions were made 20 or more years ago that snow would be a thing of the past, and we have record snowfalls currently, but we all know that the more the planet warms the colder it gets!

Russia and China have pushed this crap, and it is now becuase of harsher winters and shorter summers, (no l am providing numbers, since l am living through it, as most are on Earth) the wheels are falling of of their deceit.

The new Green Deal, is needing a pass to travel, get used to power outages, for the good of the state, restrict or limit or remove certain foodstuffs, freezed and die in your house, since we have to increase electricity so you use less, to the point of death,.....sounds like marism to me!

:sleepy:

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Doug1029
10 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

First, I have just completed climate means for temperature and precipitation for all nine Oklahoma climate divisions.  I will post the graphs of those tomorrow.

Tomorrow has arrived:

image.png.a75ee357dcecd42cc0800647bf333545.png

Figure 1.  Climate Mean (Temperature) in degrees Farenheit for the Oklahoma Panhandle (1903-2018).  The “hump” in the 1950s is present in all Oklahoma temperature climate means.  This is a 30-year running mean with the ending value shown on the graph.  Each value is the climate forecast for the following year.

 

 

image.png.d3448f619aba34e48a7a8b8e39027fc6.png

Figure 2.  Climate Mean (Precipitation) in inches of rainfall per year for the Oklahoma Panhandle (1924-2018).  This is a 30-year running average with the ending value shown on the graph.  The Panhandle shows the least increase in rainfall of any Oklahoma Climate Division.

 

 

image.png.4f8114d5691c7fb0ec94f6e5a7db1b48.png

Figure 3.  Climate Mean (Temperature) in degrees Farenheit for the Oklahoma Climate Division 8 (Red River) (1903-2018).  The “hump” in the 1950s is present in all Oklahoma temperature climate means.  This is a 30-year running mean with the ending value shown on the graph.  Each value is the climate forecast for the following year.  In 2018 temperatures have not yet recovered to their all-time high in the 1950s (62.9°F – 62.5°F = 0.4°F.).

 

 

image.png.9006c16d21ea3f2a1ca51c4ebb9769df.png

Figure 4.  Climate Mean (Precipitation) in inches of water per year for Oklahoma Climate Division 8 (Red River) (1924-2018).  This is a 30-year running mean with the ending value shown on the graph.  Each value is the climate forecast for the following year.  Note increase in precipitation between 1980 and 2018.

 

 

image.png.94e350e677fd692b4dfba8e829a8e8eb.png

Figure 5.  Climate Mean (Temperature) in degrees Farenheit for Oklahoma Climate Division 9 (Ouachitas) (1903-2018).  The “hump” in the 1950s is present in all Oklahoma temperature climate means.  This is a 30-year running mean with the ending value shown on the graph.  Each value is the climate forecast for the following year.  In 2018 temperatures have not yet recovered to their all-time high in the 1950s (61.5°F – 61.4°F = 0.1°F.).

 

I have exceeded my allowed document length.  There is one more graph which I wanted to show, so I'll put it in a separate post.

There are 12 more graphs, but they mostly repeat what is already shown here.  The temperature graphs all show the hump in the 1950s and the precipitation graphs all show an increase in precip since 1980.

The running averages on which the graphs are based are the PROOF of climate change.  Climate is defined as a 30-year average.  Running averages show the year-to-year change in that 30-year figure.  If they change, the climate changed by definition.

Doug

 

 

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Doug1029
2 hours ago, joc said:

The Left must...MUST...limit the Energy Production Capability of the United States of America.  It is imperative.  Only by limiting the EPC of the USA can Russia ever hope to achieve anything substantial.   Having hypersonic missiles isn't substantial.  They are so far behind the US in terms of technology et al.  It is the sole reason why Trump MUST be stopped.  Because he is seen by the Left as the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan...who left the USSR lying on the dung heap of history.  If they don't stop Trump now...all of their work to recover supernation status over the last 3 decades will have been for nothing.

Clean energy will not harm the energy production of the US.  If we need more energy, we just add more wind turbines at 225 Mv each.  Or more solar panels, etc.  We are already producing 22% of our energy from clean sources.  The goal is to reach 25% by the end of 2020.  On Sunday I saw six turbine blades headed north on I-35.  That's two new wind turbines.  We are building up our capacity as we speak, Trump's obstructionism notwithstanding.

The subsidy for wind power ended on January 1.  All wind turbines under construction on that day will still get it.  The utilities around here put in an awful lot of foundations last year and they are finishing them off this year.  So at least through next December, windmill construction continues.

Doug

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