XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #526 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: I'd say that's correct. Personally, I believe NDEs do indicate, strongly, that the afterlife (continuous life) exists, but objectively, yes, I must agree with you. The only reason you believe they indicate an afterlife is because of your religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 15, 2020 #527 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said: That would make sense, but I get the feeling he believes at least something of what he writes. To be honest I find it helpful to dig deeper. You could be right, but I sincerely hope he's just trolling But helpful it is, to be constantly called to reevaluate own opinion. By the way, the reason why people who did have NDEs are not always in the mood to talk about them is clear from this thread too - why casting pearls in front of swine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingFool0 Posted February 15, 2020 #528 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: The only reason you believe they indicate an afterlife is because of your religious beliefs. And the only reason you believe that they do not indicate an afterlife is because of your materialistic belief. Edited February 15, 2020 by WanderingFool0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #529 Share Posted February 15, 2020 NDE no 1. vision of an old nurse in 1950 gear. Later confirmed by my father except the hat. NDE no 2. Nothing. Cold, dark, then nothing. Regained consciousness later. Ooooh, so hard to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted February 15, 2020 #530 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: NDE's do happen. It doesn't mean an afterlife exist. At the moment we are only talking about consciousness being non-local to the brain. And I am hoping someone can tell me how a person who is having a NDE, can see and hear the conversations and what's happening in another room from theirs? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 15, 2020 #531 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: The only reason you believe they indicate an afterlife is because of your religious beliefs. No, not really. Not only my religion is very... nonreligious but also it's the logic that makes me connect the obvious extraordinary quality of NDEs with the possibility of the consciousness being not generated but rather plugged into this world by brain. And consciousness being not dependent on the brain is very little step away from realization this life is not what the true life is limited to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #532 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Just now, WanderingFool0 said: And the only reason you believe that they do not indicate an afterlife is because of materialistic belief. Nope, experience. I've clocked out of life twice. How about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #533 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Just now, Crazy Horse said: At the moment we are only talking about consciousness being non-local to the brain. And I am hoping someone can tell me how a person who is having a NDE, can see and hear the conversations and what's happening in another room from theirs? Because their senses are still functioning, while their consciousness is glitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #534 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said: No, not really. Not only my religion is very... nonreligious but also it's the logic that makes me connect the obvious extraordinary quality of NDEs with the possibility of the consciousness being not generated but rather plugged into this world by brain. And consciousness being not dependent on the brain is very little step away from realization this life is not what the true life is limited to. Dig up a dead body, hook jump cable up to its brain then to your car and see if you can have a full two way conversation with a corpse. Get back to us on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted February 15, 2020 #535 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: You could be right, but I sincerely hope he's just trolling But helpful it is, to be constantly called to reevaluate own opinion. By the way, the reason why people who did have NDEs are not always in the mood to talk about them is clear from this thread too - why casting pearls in front of swine? In the hope that someone else who is not so closed-minded, might happen along.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #536 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said: In the hope that someone else who is not so closed-minded, might happen along.... Basically being open minded is just another way of saying, "They need to see things my way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 15, 2020 #537 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Dig up a dead body, hook jump cable up to its brain then to your car and see if you can have a full two way conversation with a corpse. Get back to us on that. Wow, let me change my opinion because you can produce a sarcastic remark. And grow up already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingFool0 Posted February 15, 2020 #538 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Nope, experience. I've clocked out of life twice. How about you? I have not. Closest I came was being induced into a medically induced coma for a week one time and having the hellish experience of having at least one of the medications keeping me asleep wear off while the others paralyzing me were still working. Spending long periods of time being trapped as a floating consciousness with no awareness of my body or even my breathing or being able to control my breath was a very surreal experience though. Especially when far in the distance I could hear A&E's scietology expose program on the tv with all the people talking about disconnection. Edited February 15, 2020 by WanderingFool0 addition 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted February 15, 2020 #539 Share Posted February 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: No, not really. Not only my religion is very... nonreligious but also it's the logic that makes me connect the obvious extraordinary quality of NDEs with the possibility of the consciousness being not generated but rather plugged into this world by brain. And consciousness being not dependent on the brain is very little step away from realization this life is not what the true life is limited to. Exactly. Its all very reasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 15, 2020 #540 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said: In the hope that someone else who is not so closed-minded, might happen along.... Well, I happened I enjoy your contribution to this thread very much. Thank you. I'll probably evacuate myself now, there's the limit to the time I'm willing to spend among the neglected turbo-skeptic children, but I'm looking forward to your posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted February 15, 2020 #541 Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Basically being open minded is just another way of saying, "They need to see things my way." Not at all. What it actually means is that they look at the evidence in an unbiased way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #542 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said: Wow, let me change my opinion because you can produce a sarcastic remark. And grow up already. Who said it was sarcasm. I am serious. If you believe that consciousness is some etherial things. Just plug someone in and restart the program. Dead is dead. We are 99.9 percent empty space, remove that space and we'll fit into a grain of sand. Do that to the whole of humanity and it would fit within a sugar cube. Basically we don't exist. Everything that makes us who we are dies and regrows till the clock runs out. We are basically zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #543 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said: Not at all. What it actually means is that they look at the evidence in an unbiased way. Nope. It means what I wrote and you can see it more with the believers who are unwilling to actually delve into a subject. Instead they go the airy fairy route. Look if you want to believe in some esoteric drivel I can't stop you. But by all means don't try to force your beliefs on anyone. I wish I could dumb myself down so I could belief in the mystical woo woo again. But I took the red pill by my own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Horse Posted February 15, 2020 #544 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Nope. It means what I wrote and you can see it more with the believers who are unwilling to actually delve into a subject. Instead they go the airy fairy route. Look if you want to believe in some esoteric drivel I can't stop you. But by all means don't try to force your beliefs on anyone. I wish I could dumb myself down so I could belief in the mystical woo woo again. But I took the red pill by my own choice. You want to delve into the subject? Fine, then please explain, if consciousness is only local to the brain, then how can someone having a NDE hear and see conversations of other folks in other rooms? And please, I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, I am only presenting evidence, you can choose to ignore it or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #545 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Your senses are still working and whatever gaps in memory can and are filled in the blank by others. So it is very, very, very, very, very easy to create a false memory around an event. I've answered and I'm bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2020 #546 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said: Actually, it is the evidence gathered and corelated through years and years of research, that allows me to believe in these NDE. Evidence so overwhelming, that @joc only argument against it, is to claim that all these folks are lying. The evidence isn't overwhelming. It isn't even evidence. You are on the same train ride to nowhere as Papageorge. All the anecdotal evidence in the world doesn't mean a damn thing as far as proof. You cannot prove any of it. I on the other hand do not have to prove anything. I don't know if they are lying or not. But anecdotal is anecdotal is anecdotal. One cannot prove a negative under any circumstance. But the laws of physics and common sense are on the side of thought that I embrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted February 15, 2020 #547 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Crazy Horse brings up a very interesting point....about NDExperiencers SEEING events in a room they cannot see with their eyes. And then later ,Correctly, recalling those scenes to others. It has reportedly happened thousands of times. All liars? All just confused somehow? I am just happy that I am free to believe or disbelieve , wonder, or even Not KNOW ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen of Annoy Posted February 15, 2020 #548 Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, XenoFish said: Who said it was sarcasm. I am serious. If you believe that consciousness is some etherial things. Just plug someone in and restart the program. Dead is dead. We are 99.9 percent empty space, remove that space and we'll fit into a grain of sand. Do that to the whole of humanity and it would fit within a sugar cube. Basically we don't exist. Everything that makes us who we are dies and regrows till the clock runs out. We are basically zombies. Seriously? You're serious? Oh, poor baby... I'll humour you then. You can hook up a corpse and get nothing because obviously, living brain is the one that plugs up the consciousness (or produces it, according to the most rigid materialist interpretation). Dead brain is rotting matter, has no activity and no metabolic possibility to produce it. 'Freshly' back from the clinic death can be plugged back in since decomposition hasn't been significant yet. Once you start going into compost, well, you've got to find other channels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted February 15, 2020 #549 Share Posted February 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said: Nah, he's just trolling. It's a hobby of his - chooses the most irritatingly extreme stance and insists on it like a child. I actually find it amusing, when people start approving his posts, for real. The question my dear Helen of VeryAnnoying is whether consciousness leaves the brain and body and is independent after death. Note...I never said NDEs don't happen. I said very matter of factly that consciousness is local to the brain. I don't care who says what about what who saw or didn't see while having a near death experience. In the first place...they weren't dead...NDE is an acronym for NEAR death. However...where are the VDEs who have ever reported such a thing? Very Dead Experience. Oh yes there are quite a few. A once revolutionary procedure used in some heart operations involves removing every single drop of blood from the patients body, then lowering the body temperature to around 54 degrees...the blood is kept oxygenated and 'alive' in a vat where it eventually is transfused into the patient who then is 'brought back to life'. Would you say a body that is lying on an operating table with zero blood, and a temperature of 54 degrees F is alive or near death. No. Very, very dead! Very dead body! If consciousness was non-local to the brain, why haven't any of these patients, once revived, told similar stories of NDE patients. They were certainly much deader than any NDE patient. Splain that one sunshine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 15, 2020 #550 Share Posted February 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said: Seriously? You're serious? Oh, poor baby... I'll humour you then. You can hook up a corpse and get nothing because obviously, living brain is the one that plugs up the consciousness (or produces it, according to the most rigid materialist interpretation). Dead brain is rotting matter, has no activity and no metabolic possibility to produce it. 'Freshly' back from the clinic death can be plugged back in since decomposition hasn't been significant yet. Once you start going into compost, well, you've got to find other channels So nothing. There's nothing. Once the brain turns to goo you no longer exist. No soul, no self. Just a festering corpse. There are no other channels. Once you are 6 foot under dead, you're dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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