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Could consciousness pervade the universe ?

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Helen of Annoy
11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Helen, how many times have you accused me of being a psychopath over the past few day? I know psychopaths. I know what a narcissist is really like. 

Quote me or mention me if you want me to notice you replied, I'm not reading all the threads all the time. 

So since you know what psychopaths and narcissists are like, and what manipulation strategies they use, you are aware you end up looking like you're impersonating one.

To what purpose? 

I'm not asking you with intention to get an answer, I'm asking because you keep forgetting to ask your own self that question.  

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Quote me or mention me if you want me to notice you replied, I'm not reading all the threads all the time. 

So since you know what psychopaths and narcissists are like, and what manipulation strategies they use, you are aware you end up looking like you're impersonating one.

To what purpose? 

I'm not asking you with intention to get an answer, I'm asking because you keep forgetting to ask your own self that question.  

Maybe I don't want to hurt anymore, maybe I don't want to be afraid. Perhaps I'd like to have a little faith/trust in humanity. And maybe I just want something to believe in. You try being a gutted shell for a few years.

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RabidMongoose
3 minutes ago, iridescence said:

That's quite a solipsistic view. Reality exists and there's a symbiotic relationship between us and the environment. It's not only our minds or your mind existing on its own. Panpsychism brings a good definition of consciousness by proposing that everything is interconnected and that there are really tiny forms of consciousness/matter from which everything emerges.

You only know sensory perception.

Its surprising just how many people struggle with the role that their senses and minds play in the construction of their experience of reality. Its like they think their experience of reality exists independently from them when its actually created by them. 

Reality being sensory perception is not even under question, that is basic High School science. The only debate to be had is if we can show anything true underpinning the experience of reality that our sensory perception creates. The answer is we cannot show anything as true, but we can show everything that we know of as being false.

Lets go straight for the jugular and point on that Quantum Mechanics allows for (and its experimentally proven) that an atomic particle can exist for one person at a location but not another. Hence, the location of the atomic particle is not an absolute truth.

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Helen of Annoy
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe I don't want to hurt anymore, maybe I don't want to be afraid. Perhaps I'd like to have a little faith/trust in humanity. And maybe I just want something to believe in. You try being a gutted shell for a few years.

Just to make it extra clear that I - of course - didn't like the fact that you're afraid and hurt and feel like gutted, I wanted to show my support for you with that 'like'. 

I also absolutely do like the courage you showed with clearly stating your emotional state. 

 

I know. I know what it feels like. Billions know. You're not alone. I can't ease your pain better than I can ease mine and to be honest, it all still hurts like a b****. I never found the way to cut the pain down, but I've found ways to live with the pain. For everything painful, something nice. For each injustice, some comfort. For everything seemingly senseless, something meaningful. I call it positive spite. I've got no idea if you'll like that concept, but it works for me. 

What do you have to lose? Hopelessness? 

 

I must go now, so you don't think I'm ignoring you or something. I'll be back to annoy you tomorrow. You know you're my favourite pain in the ass :D 

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You know you're my favourite pain in the ass :D 

That kinda feels nice...

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Helen of Annoy
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

That kinda feels nice...

You're also my favourite prophet of doom. Atheist prophet of doom, to avoid any confusion here and respect all views :D 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You're also my favourite prophet of doom. Atheist prophet of doom, to avoid any confusion here and respect all views :D 

I honestly don't like atheism. It kills the essence of being human, kinda the reason I'm starting to hate science. It reduces the self to nothing more than a meat robot. 

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RabidMongoose

The greatest realisation I have ever had is that it isn't exactly that consciousness pervades the entire universe. Its that our inability to regulate our thoughts, feelings, and actions, does. The universe is a torture device designed to force us to regulate our thoughts, feelings, and actions.

It isn't just a case of if you act a moron people are mean to you. There is something far deeper going on, something weird wired into the very fabric of reality to make sure we each get our karma. If people dont believe me then look at your most distressful life experiences.

The universe likes to strike every now and again where it really hurts. It likes to give each person a few life experiences where it snaps them like a twig. And the picking themselves up sees them learning something important about regulating their thoughts, feelings, and actions.

Life makes people strong.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Helen of Annoy
12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I honestly don't like atheism. It kills the essence of being human, kinda the reason I'm starting to hate science. It reduces the self to nothing more than a meat robot. 

Don't hate science, for the love of intelligent god! 

Just don't limit yourself to the weird interpretations of scientific facts. Science made it possible for us to talk now, we'd never meet without science, but science is not even called to say if there's purpose, higher order and so on. 

Hell I mean... heck, Vatican has scientists too, exploring the spiritual possibilities is not in contradiction with science. 

And I really must go now, or I'll be late for work and it'll be all your fault :D 

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joc
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

There is something far deeper going on, something weird wired into the very fabric of reality to make sure we each get our karma.

Karma, like God, is a conceptualized thought process...nothing more.  And we each don't get our karma anyway.  It's actually a very ridiculous concept.  

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joc
1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 exploring the spiritual possibilities is not in contradiction with science. 

Of course it is contradictory to science.  How can you measure anything spiritual?  How can you 'test' anything spiritual? Spirituality is all a mental exercise.  There is nothing real about it...scientifically speaking.

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psyche101
4 hours ago, lightly said:

Yes ,thanks psyche, that is the predominant theory.   If we are to believe the big bang theory... Before there was matter, or antimatter, for that matter...(no light, nothing we would recognize really).  ..there was only ENERGY, correct? ( the energy which became all forces and things)   Matter formed as the energy cooled. ?  Or so I have heard cosmologists say.   Do you know how long of a period of time passed between the beginning of the "Big Bang" ...and the formation of matter?    

About 400 thousand years

Particles existed from the start but that's about when electrons started to be trapped in orbits around nuclei, forming the first atoms.

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joc
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Everyone has a demon inside that's just waiting for the right moment. People put on happy exteriors, only to stab you in the back without a moment's notice. Hypocrisy is the norm.

I swear to God...everytime I think...I can trust this person...I get stabbed in the back.  It's human nature. 

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XenoFish
Just now, joc said:

I swear to God...everytime I think...I can trust this person...I get stabbed in the back.  It's human nature. 

And I don't like it. I'm not very fond of opportunist. 

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XenoFish

Even if the universe is conscious, does that really change anything? I don't see where it would if it was true. 

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psyche101
7 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

And we all know what happened to the Joker in the end!!!

The poor misguided soul, thought he could walk around doing and saying whatever he wanted and still walk away scot-free. But as we all know, life just never pans-out like that.

 

Not really how I saw him.

Life pans out like that every day. Read the news. 

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XenoFish

Oh second thought. What if we are the universe's "consciousness". Created so that the universe can observe itself. Not just us but all living things. Fun little thought. 

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joc
2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I do agree with you that everyone has a demon inside. Hell, I've got a whole cohort. But, speaking from my experience, my demons are not waiting for the right moment to do senseless damage. Nope. I don't know why, maybe I was attached faulty demons. Because my demons will rip to pieces only other demons. Never a sentient being. 

Your demons will rip to pieces anyone who tells you what a great man Donald Trump is. :)

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psyche101
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

I honestly don't like atheism. It kills the essence of being human, kinda the reason I'm starting to hate science. It reduces the self to nothing more than a meat robot. 

We are just meat robots really 

So is anything alive 

I don't think that's a bad thing. Things are what they are.

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psyche101
7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Oh second thought. What if we are the universe's "consciousness". Created so that the universe can observe itself. Not just us but all living things. Fun little thought. 

That's how Carl Sagan saw it 

We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

We are just meat robots really 

So is anything alive 

I don't think that's a bad thing. Things are what they are.

And yet this idea does reduce our humanity. We become nothing but slowly decaying zombies. Sorry psyche, you can hate me for this, but I need a little imagination in my life. I don't care if I know all the answers. I just don't like the concept of me being reduced to nothing. I like my sense of self. I like the illusion of being and I need it. 

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psyche101
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

And yet this idea does reduce our humanity. We become nothing but slowly decaying zombies. Sorry psyche, you can hate me for this, but I need a little imagination in my life. I don't care if I know all the answers. I just don't like the concept of me being reduced to nothing. I like my sense of self. I like the illusion of being and I need it. 

Lol I hate everyone, even me, so don't feel special :lol:

We just see things differently. I find seeing a distant galaxy sparks my imagination, but seeing dreams realised tickles me pink. I have wallpapers on my phone of the actual surface of Mars and the face of Pluto. I find wonder in things other than myself. I don't matter I just feel privileged to be part of this incredible picture, and am amazed at how much of it we can recognise. That's a real marvel and wonder to me.

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XenoFish
3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Lol I hate everyone, even me, so don't feel special :lol:

We just see things differently. I find seeing a distant galaxy sparks my imagination, but seeing dreams realised tickles me pink. I have wallpapers on my phone of the actual surface of Mars and the face of Pluto. I find wonder in things other than myself. I don't matter I just feel privileged to be part of this incredible picture, and am amazed at how much of it we can recognise. That's a real marvel and wonder to me.

Don't get me wrong. I like all the cool discoveries, I just don't need to know everything. Because what's correct right now, won't be later. So I'm just getting agnostic about all of it, because that is the only bliss state I have. Since I am the only me that will ever exist. I do matter. I just never wanted to admit it...

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I hate everyone, even me, so don't feel special

Maybe you should change that. I know I need to.

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Habitat
8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Really?

How are the factors I stated not known and not antecedents? They are random actions that affect everything else in the known universe, why is potential is that excluded?

Forty years ago, it was suggested3 that a mirror undergoing relativistic motion could convert virtual photons into directly observable real photons. The phenomenon, later termed the dynamical Casimir effect4,5, has not been demonstrated previously. Here we observe the dynamical Casimir effect in a superconducting circuit consisting of a coplanar transmission line with a tunable electrical length. The rate of change of the electrical length can be made very fast (a substantial fraction of the speed of light) by modulating the inductance of a superconducting quantum interference device at high frequencies (>10 gigahertz). In addition to observing the creation of real photons, we detect two-mode squeezing in the emitted radiation, which is a signature of the quantum character of the generation process

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10561

Antecedent demonstrated upon demand.

That is just a "spontaneous generation" theory, where "random happenings" are the cause. You have effectively abandoned cause and effect. This is the "Uncaused Cause" idea that is no different to the religious fundamentalist God, which is assumed to be uncaused, but causes everything downstream. All your "clever" speculations, and you are back where you started.

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