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Crikey

Any concrete evidence?

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Crikey

There are dozens and dozens of assorted paranormal investigation TV shows and episodes around, but have any of them actually filmed solid evidence of genuine paranormal phenomena? Which ones have impressed UM members?

For example this one is interesting, it seems to show a faint "lizard man" slithering across the floor at the end of the corridor-

https://youtu.be/8zfHCibSvWs

 

 

Edited by Crikey
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sci-nerd
1 hour ago, Crikey said:

have any of them actually filmed solid evidence of genuine paranormal phenomena?

Nope.

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Not A Rockstar
41 minutes ago, Crikey said:

solid evidence of genuine

It depends what you consider to be evidence. If you mean it scientifically, then, no. I am convinced that it is true that science applies to the biological, tangible world and has nothing to offer at all to the paranormal. 

If you mean many good captures, which suggest the potential that there is something more out there, then yes, there are suggestible anecdotes and captures which may or may not be real/faked. Technology now, though lends itself to a lot of fakery, so buyer beware :/ 

This was an interesting clip, it is almost identical to another one I saw and can't recall the name of the show. It was new last year, and was taken in an apartment near a Voodoo Shop in New Orleans,  IIRC, which is how I noted it and I think I posted to it. Not sure. I had to debunk some of the VooDoo related trash in it but there was a good catch on film of something. Like this one, it was white and low to the ground and moved right to left like this as I recall. 

In your film it is annoying as heck how the guy walks and stands to block the end view of it, with such a concerned look on his face. I have seen enough fakery as to find that insipid, rather like all the screams and acted out terror and fear in supposed investigators. Had I acted that way at a crime scene over a blood spot when I was a cop, I would have lost my job.

If anyone recalls that show I will look at it and find the creeper so we can see how like they actually are. I think that was the show it was on, anyway. If I am mistaken, hey it happens, I review a ton of these for people.

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Not A Rockstar

I think this is a clip from the location though not sure if these are the same investigators. The Rampart Street Murder. Really shocking. I was watching this shorter clip to see if it covered what I saw - I watched a whole show back then, not clips so it might be removed now.

But at the 5 minute mark is a perfect example of probable fraud. She yells and talks about a SOUND, but you can see on the film the shadow of someone standing back there. Later we see the camera guy coming out from that room. Fake or sloppiness?

The history alone of this location is interesting, the murder is really sad. That alone would make a good story. Incidentally, aren't these the same guys as your clip was about? I will keep looking. I am curious now to see that old creeper to compare the effect.

 

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freetoroam
2 hours ago, Crikey said:

have any of them actually filmed solid evidence of genuine paranormal phenomena?

No.

2 hours ago, Crikey said:

There are dozens and dozens of assorted paranormal investigation TV shows and episodes around

There are also dozens and dozens of assorted cartoon tv shows, just like the paranormal shows, they are purely for entertainment purposes.

 

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Crikey said:

There are dozens and dozens of assorted paranormal investigation TV shows and episodes around, but have any of them actually filmed solid evidence of genuine paranormal phenomena? Which ones have impressed UM members?

I think most of them capture some very compelling evidence. 'Concrete Evidence' is a subjective term so it becomes in the eye of the viewer. I've seen equipment that captured clear EVPs that were contextual to the questions asked. Also seen where this device that renders ghosts like stick figures on a screen and those ghosts certainly seemed to be responding to verbal requests of the people present (like raise your hand and such).

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freetoroam
1 hour ago, Not A Rockstar said:

so gullible beware

Sorry Not a Rockstar, had to fix that for you. :tu:

I am still waiting for Derek Acorah to give a sign that he has made it to the other side. 

Quote

 

Late Derek Acorah's mates say it 'won't be long' before he makes contact from 'spirit world'

Most Haunted star Derek, who died on Friday aged 69, will reach out to loved ones 'from the spirit world' to let them 'know he's safe', say his friends

He is taking his time.  

As for safe, LOL,  and if he is not, what are his friends going to do about it, go and rescue him?

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freetoroam
7 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I think most of them capture some very compelling evidence

tenor.gif

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papageorge1
32 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

tenor.gif

I guess with the paranormal/alien/crypto subjects some people assume lying and incompetence to the point where it’s impossible to impress them. I really think it is an overactive defense mechanism for an anti-paranormal (usually atheistic) worldview.

 I’ll carry on with what I feel is balanced and level-headed judgment. 

Edited by papageorge1
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Kittens Are Jerks
12 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I guess with the paranormal/alien/crypto subjects some people assume lying and incompetence to the point where it’s impossible to impress them. I really think it is an overactive defense mechanism for an anti-paranormal (usually atheistic) worldview.

You often attribute fear and/or defense mechanisms as the driving forces behind the anti-paranormal point of view.  It's an absurd accusation. There's no fear of the paranormal whatsoever. Why be afraid of something that does not exist? It would appear, based just on the nature of various posts on this site, that the only people who live in constant fear (and paranoia) are those who believe. Those of us who don't are just peachy.

Ghost hunting shows exacerbate that fear by seemingly capturing evidence of the paranormal when, in fact, each and every one of those programs have captured zilch. And yet, here we are still talking about the veracity of so-called evidence from a bunch of pseudoscientific ghost hunters who rely exclusively on totally useless equipment and melodramatic pretend psychics. 

Edited by Kittens Are Jerks
Grammatical correction.
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papageorge1
1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

You often attribute fear and/or defense mechanisms as the driving forces behind the anti-paranormal point of view.  It's an absurd accusation. There's no fear of the paranormal whatsoever. Why be afraid of something that does not exist? It would appear, based just on the nature of various posts on this site, that the only people who live in constant fear (and paranoia) are those who believe. Those of us who don't are just peachy.

Ghost hunting shows exacerbate that fear by seemingly capturing evidence of the paranormal when, in fact, each and every one of those programs have captured zilch. And yet, here we are still talking about the veracity of so-called evidence from a bunch of pseudoscientific ghost hunters who rely exclusively on totally useless equipment and melodramatic pretend psychics. 

Back up there, Kittens Are Jerks. Where have I attributed 'fear of the paranormal' as a driving force for anti-paranormalism? You went off on your own tangent there.

The defense mechanism is a dislike of others with beliefs that would show your worldview is wrong. The level of emotion and vehemence in their opposition tells of something deeper.

 

Edited by papageorge1

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Kittens Are Jerks
22 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Back up there, Kittens Are Jerks. Where have I attributed 'fear of the paranormal' as a driving force for anti-paranormalism? You went off on your own tangent there.

One doesn't need to make a direct reference to 'fear' to imply it. Just the same you (and others) have often mentioned it in other discussion threads. The reality, however, is that we're not easily impressed because nothing impressive has ever been presented. 

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Desertrat56
16 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I guess with the paranormal/alien/crypto subjects some people assume lying and incompetence to the point where it’s impossible to impress them. I really think it is an overactive defense mechanism for an anti-paranormal (usually atheistic) worldview.

I agree with this except for the atheist comment, as the most loud deniers of anything paranormal or alien are baptists I have met.  And they don't know science so it is even worse.  There are people at both ends of the spectrum, the hard core debunkers and the "everything is paranormal", those make the most noise so the middle ground is not heard.

Edited by Desertrat56
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XenoFish
4 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

You often attribute fear and/or defense mechanisms as the driving forces behind the anti-paranormal point of view.  It's an absurd accusation. There's no fear of the paranormal whatsoever. Why be afraid of something that does not exist? It would appear, based just on the nature of various posts on this site, that the only people who live in constant fear (and paranoia) are those who believe. Those of us who don't are just peachy.

I think a lot of us would be excited if there was something real to the paranormal/supernatural. Sadly it's mostly half remembered events, simple mistakes, and/or flat out lies. The fakers and liars make it worse for the believers. 

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joc

I live close to Dallas. I go to Dallas almost everyday. The evidence for concrete is overwhelming I can assure you.

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Kittens Are Jerks
22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think a lot of us would be excited if there was something real to the paranormal/supernatural. 

Yes, absolutely, and would be curious to know as much as possible. 

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Yes, absolutely, and would be curious to know as much as possible. 

 

And yet we are left with nothing. Just stories. 

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with this except for the atheist comment, as the most loud deniers of anything paranormal or alien are baptists I have met.  And they don't know science so it is even worse.  There are people at both ends of the spectrum, the hard core debunkers and the "everything is paranormal", those make the most noise so the middle ground is not heard.

Baptists see evil. Atheists are deniers. (in very general)

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Crikey
On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 1:38 AM, Not A Rockstar said:

Incidentally, aren't these the same guys as your clip was about? I will keep looking. I am curious now to see that old creeper to compare the effect..

 

Yes they're the same investigators.

BTW regarding ALL paranormal TV shows, I've got to admire their pluck in going into allegedly haunted places in the first place, I dunno if I'd dare to myself, so full credit to them for that..:tsu:

PS- I think I've detected traces of a "pattern" in some of the shows, as an "entity" seems to be wanting the investigators to pray for it, as if it's a lost soul or something.

For example only the other day I happened to come across a show halfway through where investigators were in a place (old church or mission building?) at night, and a pebble dropped to the floor from above. They looked up and saw a stone carving of an angel on the ceiling. Then they heard footsteps in the next room and went in and saw a 6-foot tall crucifix on the wall.

So my theory is that perhaps the trapped soul was trying to get the message across to them that it wanted them to pray for its release?

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Not A Rockstar

Hi @Crikey

I have been investigating phenomenon most of my life, and so I stay with my view of the screams and drama as being foolishness. These shows are entertainment for the most part, with some interesting history sometimes tossed in.

Which does nothing for the real exploration of the phenomenon and wondering what it is we are feeling or hearing or seeing (in some really rare cases).

I will say it is easier to stomach them screaming in terror than it is to watch a jerk cussing and insulting the "dead" to get a reaction. I will also say that if I filmed everything I have ever checked into, I would need to toss in heaps of history and maybe character interactions to make a TV show, because there is very little visual capturing to be had. It would be terribly boring to watch. The rare screams if you could watch my explorations were over spiders or snakes or flooring giving out unexpectedly, not the haunt of Nurse Nancy coming to take me away.

Now, if you FEEL what I sensed at times, you would have enough stories for perhaps a season of shows. 30 minutes shows. If you could see what I have astrally, then yeah, we could do a season I guess and have it be interesting. But, not award winning level of interesting.

The real stuff is just rare and is often inexplicable. I find the "recording" type of phenomenon the oddest and still wonder how it can even be... for a while before it, too, dissipates.

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Manwon Lender

The real problem with these TV shows, is that they are TV shows.  In order for these shows to work they have to show something so in many cases if not all cases they add, bangs or other sounds and even doctored images. This is the problem for paranormal research, with all the hoaxs being perpetrated it's very hard to beleive anything is real.

peace

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Crikey

Apart from the occasional "entity" seemingly wanting the investigators to pray for it, another thing I've noticed in some shows is that an entity sometimes seems to be a little girl  (usually a crying voice), which makes me wonder whether it's a demon in disguise trying to appeal to the investigators protective instincts so that they'll talk to it, giving it the opportunity to worm its way into our "dimension"?

 

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Crikey
59 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The real problem with these TV shows, is that they are TV shows.  In order for these shows to work they have to show something so in many cases if not all cases they add, bangs or other sounds and even doctored images. This is the problem for paranormal research, with all the hoaxs being perpetrated it's very hard to beleive anything is real.

 

The only sure-fire reality is that the investigators have the guts to actually be IN the spooky places; for example one young woman spent some time laying on a mortuary slab in an old disused hospital, I LURV her..:D

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Not A Rockstar
4 minutes ago, Crikey said:

 

The only sure-fire reality is that the investigators have the guts to actually be IN the spooky places; for example one young woman spent some time laying on a mortuary slab in an old disused hospital, I LURV her..:D

LOL, yeah I would have paused over that only for fear of spiders :). Those really do creep me out. 

Physical threats do worry me in the oldest buildings, and I always was on high alert for the possible doper or random person inside them, even if they did seem secure before I was let in. There is nothing fun about a floor giving out or asbestos.

Quote

Apart from the occasional "entity" seemingly wanting the investigators to pray for it, another thing I've noticed in some shows is that an entity sometimes seems to be a little girl  (usually a crying voice), which makes me wonder whether it's a demon in disguise trying to appeal to the investigators protective instincts so that they'll talk to it, giving it the opportunity to worm its way into our "dimension"?

Sympathy ploys, and if true, perhaps it is an attention or sympathy grabber, if something truly is there, or may just be Hollywood adds for the same reason. I am very wary of starting to label things as demons. 

I have seen a lot, but as for actual intelligent seeming haunts trying to ask me for anything, the most compelling was of a young girl, in her teens, who told me she was staying there, waiting for her parents to come back. She seemed very lonely, very hurt they still were not back for her. She was surprised when I told her they had passed on, were not coming back, not able to come back and she needed to move on. She asked me to help her get there so I did that and she was gone that fast.

This is precisely my perception of what happened. It is what I saw, heard and did. And yet, it defies much of how I see things as working cosmologically. It fails to "make sense" to me and how I understand things.

Which is why after so many years, I do not hang onto ideas or understandings with too tight a grasp and suppose I know it all. Nobody does, we just do the best we can and keep moving and stay positive and in love with life itself. 

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Crikey
21 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

..I am very wary of starting to label things as demons.. 

Yes its an old fashioned word, maybe it needs modernising to something like "Malign Spiritual Entities" that seek to gain entrance into our dimension (and/or our minds) by pretending to be innocent and harmless.

I'm not a big fan of 'The Exorcist', (too over-the-top Hollywoodish) but a notable scene is where the demon in the girl speaks through her mouth in the voice of the priest's dead mother to try to arouse guilt feelings in him for leaving her alone to die in hospital, but he's knowledgable enough to say "You're not my mother"..:D

 

 

Edited by Crikey

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