Magic wands and biblical staff

[Piney]

Just now, Harte said:

the Noble Bool Krappi

[XenoFish]

Just now, Wes83 said:

But that’s what I want, a scientific group of people open to possibilities and personal experimentation to converse with. I don’t really care what people on a forum call me, but when they start It makes it hard to constructively conversate.
 

oh well

I did the science + magick thing. Did it for years. The mind plays a massive part in the results. People basically use magick and it's systems to program their reality. 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I understand this, it's like in Satanic Services they use a dagger for the same purpose.

It's called a "Athame" and used by Wiccans, but they aren't Satanists. They just worshiped a Horned God of Nature. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's called a "Athame" and used by Wiccans, but they aren't Satanists. They just worshiped a Horned God of Nature. 

Thanks for the information, I appreciate it.

Peace

[Jujo-jo]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:44 AM, ocpaul20 said:

I am interested in the origins of these items because many stories of wizards/witches have some kind of wand they use to aid their magic. The Bible has accounts of people like Moses waving their staff at things and they have a 'magical' effect.

Do you think these items are some kind of tool which has an effect on our reality etc. ?

If so, then we should look into how these things were selected and used - or maybe it is just an item used in the story?

What do you think? Is there anything to this?

Tool effecting reality ~  No but could, it had an effect on the Pharaoh's reality but he did little to change it. & Moses's staff wasn't used in that manner for mind control.

Item used in a story ~ yes, but an item they claimed was witnessed by many that was a real item.

Yes in Moses's days, which were spiritual times, there was something to this.

Mans power is nothing to God's power and any power put into any tool today is powerless.

There might be tools made by man in a lab from technology that might have certain powers that can do amazing things but again NOTHING can out rank God's power.

As for wizard's and witches again it applies; the devil's power is more powerful than mans and Gods power is above both.

Most modern day wands are fictitious 

In my opinion and those of you who respond to this reply, do it nicely or don't at all please & thank you.

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

Tool effecting reality ~  No but could, it had an effect on the Pharaoh's reality but he did little to change it. & Moses's staff wasn't used in that manner for mind control.

Item used in a story ~ yes, but an item they claimed was witnessed by many that was a real item.

Yes in Moses's days, which were spiritual times, there was something to this.

Mans power is nothing to God's power and any power put into any tool today is powerless.

There might be tools made by man in a lab from technology that might have certain powers that can do amazing things but again NOTHING can out rank God's power.

As for wizard's and witches again it applies; the devil's power is more powerful than mans and Gods power is above both.

Most modern day wands are fictitious 

In my opinion and those of you who respond to this reply, do it nicely or don't at all please & thank you.

The power is in the belief. Not the tool, not even the thoughtform which is just a placebo. It doesn't matter if you're calling upon god or the flying spaghetti monster. 

You are no one's boss. Please remember that. 

[XenoFish]

Now I remember why I backed out of occult communities.

[XenoFish]

 

[Piney]

24 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

Yes in Moses's days, which were spiritual times, there was something to this.

Moses was proven to be completely mythical, along with his magic.

25 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

As for wizard's and witches again it applies; the devil's power is more powerful than mans and Gods power is above both.

The Devil was created by Roman Theologians to give people something to fear using the idea of Zoroastrianism's "bad god". He never existed either. 

28 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

Mans power is nothing to God's power and any power put into any tool today is powerless.

Man is part of Tian, the "Living Universe" and has the power to create or destroy gods. 

[Jujo-jo]

20 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You are no one's boss. Please remember that. 

?

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Mainly due to this place being mostly a science only zone. 

I am not sure if I agree with this statement.

I have had experiences in my life of things that I cannot explain. I could place a label on these events, but the label doesn't answer the 'why' or 'what', of the experience. And it certainly doesn't mean that I have placed the correct label on the thing.

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, Jujo-jo said:

Most modern day wands are fictitious 

Much like gods and devils.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Jujo-jo said:

Tool effecting reality ~  No but could, it had an effect on the Pharaoh's reality but he did little to change it. & Moses's staff wasn't used in that manner for mind control.

Well, it's a mythic story... there isn't any evidence for the events described (no pharaoh and army lost to a body of water (which would have caused a huge fight for succession) and no evidence of a huge number of settlers/captives in Egypt leaving with a lot of the wealth.  And no evidence of Hebrews/Israelites in Egypt in any numbers until around the time of Ramesses II (when there's a lot of written records.)

[XenoFish]

6 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I am not sure if I agree with this statement.

I have had experiences in my life of things that I cannot explain. I could place a label on these events, but the label doesn't answer the 'why' or 'what', of the experience. And it certainly doesn't mean that I have placed the correct label on the thing.

Not you others. Experiences get reduced to nothing more than mundane events. I know I used to do it. The problem is devaluing the meaning of said event. It's basically hammering it away. If the takeaway from seeing a deceased relative's ghost is being able to move forward, is it worth destroying that? I don't think so. In some cases around here it is worth it, there are the obvious smoke blowers. 

[+Desertrat56]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Not you others. Experiences get reduced to nothing more than mundane events. I know I used to do it. The problem is devaluing the meaning of said event. It's basically hammering it away. If the takeaway from seeing a deceased relative's ghost is being able to move forward, is it worth destroying that? I don't think so. In some cases around here it is worth it, there are the obvious smoke blowers. 

Reducing them to mundane events is not science, most of those I have seen on this forum using the term "science" insisting it proves someone is wrong do not even understand science themselves.  Those that do understand usually don't say "it is impossible" though they do sometimes insist on proof that doesn't exist because they can't get past the word "experience" when they have no experience of thier own similar.  I would not call this forum a science zone.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Desertrat56

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Reducing them to mundane events is not science, most of those I have seen on this forum using the term "science" insisting it proves someone is wrong do not even understand science themselves.  Those that do understand usually don't say "it is impossible" though they do sometimes insist on proof that doesn't exist because they can't get past the word "experience" when they have no experience of thier own similar.  I would not call this forum a science zone.

You haven't been here as long as I have. If you believe anything supernatural or paranormal I can almost promise that someone will find a way to neutralize it. I played that game myself. I know it can be done and I've gotten lax for my own reasons.

[XenoFish]

12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I am not sure if I agree with this statement.

I have had experiences in my life of things that I cannot explain. I could place a label on these events, but the label doesn't answer the 'why' or 'what', of the experience. And it certainly doesn't mean that I have placed the correct label on the thing.

How many times have you tried to destroy a person's belief? How many times have you done this in a subtle or aggressive way? 

[+Desertrat56]

27 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You haven't been here as long as I have. If you believe anything supernatural or paranormal I can almost promise that someone will find a way to neutralize it. I played that game myself. I know it can be done and I've gotten lax for my own reasons.

I agree, but I don't think it is the "science nerds" doing that, I think it is those who prefer to make others wrong just for the sake of it.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Desertrat56

[rashore]

16 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because if you talk about those strange experiences, you're called crazy, a liar, or hypocrite. Mainly due to this place being mostly a science only zone. 

It's unfortunate that some members do engage in calling names like that. It's a rather rude and juvenile way to put forth ones personal beliefs.  But that's what the report button is for.

And interestingly enough... this isn't the place that is mostly a science only zone. This is indeed the place to be able to freely discuss the odder and more unexplained spooky stuff. The Palaeontology, Archaeology & History section is the mostly science only zone for the most part. There is often a bit of crossover and blurring between the two sections so it's understandable why many people think this is a mostly science only zone.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, rashore said:

It's unfortunate that some members do engage in calling names like that. It's a rather rude and juvenile way to put forth ones personal beliefs.  But that's what the report button is for.

And interestingly enough... this isn't the place that is mostly a science only zone. This is indeed the place to be able to freely discuss the odder and more unexplained spooky stuff. The Palaeontology, Archaeology & History section is the mostly science only zone for the most part. There is often a bit of crossover and blurring between the two sections.

When it comes to magick there are two things that happen. Either we talk about the history of it or the practice of it. If we speak about the practice that's when things start going south. 

[XenoFish]

If memory serves renaissance occultism was heavily coded to avoid the churches wrath. Even alchemic formula used things like 'dragons blood' to keep secrets from being stolen. As mentioned earlier ceremonial tools were symbolic. 

[rashore]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

When it comes to magick there are two things that happen. Either we talk about the history of it or the practice of it. If we speak about the practice that's when things start going south. 

And it shouldn't be like that. We all promised as members here to be civil and courteous, to not engage in personal attacks or topic bashing. We all agreed not make posts forbidding opposing viewpoints or make derogatory personal observations designed to dismiss or belittle another member's opinion, like crazy, liar, hypocrite. 

If people believe X exists, or believes X does not exist can be pointless bickering. The lores and practices exist, and we should be able to discuss the details of them just as much as the history of these things.

[XenoFish]

39 minutes ago, rashore said:

And it shouldn't be like that. We all promised as members here to be civil and courteous, to not engage in personal attacks or topic bashing. We all agreed not make posts forbidding opposing viewpoints or make derogatory personal observations designed to dismiss or belittle another member's opinion, like crazy, liar, hypocrite. 

If people believe X exists, or believes X does not exist can be pointless bickering. The lores and practices exist, and we should be able to discuss the details of them just as much as the history of these things.

You're right it shouldn't be and I was one of the worst for it. (Don't know where my hazard level is now) . I don't even want to discuss somethings and I don't know how many threads I never created because of how hostile it gets here at time. The last thread I created I had to have locked. It wasn't the best feeling I had. 

[Oniomancer]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

If memory serves renaissance occultism was heavily coded to avoid the churches wrath. Even alchemic formula used things like 'dragons blood' to keep secrets from being stolen. As mentioned earlier ceremonial tools were symbolic. 

Dragon's blood also can refer to the dried sap of the Dragon Tree, (draceana sp.) which was reputed as a cure-all.

Then again, we can't entirely rule out the possibility some of draconic chronicler's buddies might've been a little hard up for cash back then and made some donations to the templars.

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Oniomancer said:

Dragon's blood also can refer to the dried sap of the Dragon Tree, (draceana sp.) which was reputed as a cure-all.

Thanks for the addition. 

All I know is that most of it was kept cryptic for a reason. 

https://niftybuckles.wordpress.com/2018/09/27/magic-wands-in-folk-magick/

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/betweentheshadows/2016/05/seekers-and-guides-why-witches-wield-wands/