Tinder Hookup Gone Wrong

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Because there is an audio recording. Fighting, door shuts, scream heard in distance.

I guess the legal system is fortunate you did not seek a career there. 

You appear to be saying the prosecutors should not have prosecuted a case of murder.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Booth said:

It's clear from the audio that he has locked the patio doors and is inside the apartment when she gives her fatal scream.

And audio shows he was inside, how ? The phone was inside ? That doesn't mean he was, like I say, if it was cut and dried that she was out there on her own, the murder charge never stood a chance. They would not have proceeded

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

And audio shows he was inside, how ? The phone was inside ? That doesn't mean he was, like I say, if it was cut and dried that she was out there on her own, the murder charge never stood a chance. They would not have proceeded

His breathing is clearly on the phone. That means he was inside with it.

2.19am: Movement and rustling and sounds of Wright calling out. Sound consistent with door unlocking. She states, 'No'. Possible sound of glass door being hit.

2.20.46am: Tostee: 'Who the **** do you think you are? Hey?' Wright: 'No, no, no. No! No no no.'

Tostee: 'You tried to kill me huh? Well, why did you try and hit me with that. Huh? Shut your filthy mouth.'

Wright: 'No, no, no, no, no. (screaming).'

Tostee: 'It is all on recording you know. It is all being recorded.

Wright: 'No no no no no no no no no no no no. Just let me go home.'

Tostee: 'I would but you have been a bad girl.' Sound of door sliding shut.

2.20am: Wright: 'Just let me go home. Just let me go home.' Last words of 'just let me go home'. Tostee- heavy breathing. Faint scream detected.

2.21.23am: Very heavy breathing from Tostee.

2.21.50am: Tostee makes call to lawyer Mick Purcell. Call made from handset. '(Expletive).' Call not connected.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11733463

Of course it would proceed. Somebody died. Unless the person died in hospital from known causes, there is always an investigation and autopsy.

[psyche101]

12 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You appear to be saying the prosecutors should not have prosecuted a case of murder.

They do what they are paid to do. 

[psyche101]

14 minutes ago, Habitat said:

It seemed not to be examined in enough detail, how she could possibly be in that position, or have gotten in to it. I don't accept it is a given he was not out there, or the murder prosecution would never have been launched

How are reenactments, the audio recording and investigation not enough detail? 

Your presumption is unfounded. 

[Booth]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

And audio shows he was inside, how ? The phone was inside ? That doesn't mean he was, like I say, if it was cut and dried that she was out there on her own, the murder charge never stood a chance. They would not have proceeded

I would urge you to listen to the recording and consider what I've said. Again, I think you're being naive. Prosecutions often go forward, despite the evidence or lack thereof, for political reasons. 

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Of course it would proceed. Somebody died. Unless the person died in hospital from known causes, there is always an investigation and autopsy.

An inquest of course, but not a murder trial unless the evidence was sufficient for him to stand trial. If it is the case that it is a water-tight case of him being inside, and her outside, that would have been adjudged either death by misadventure or suicide. They obviously believed the audio could have been interpreted to support a case of murder.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

They do what they are paid to do. 

The head of the prosecutor;s office decides, and the case only proceeds to trial, after a committal proceeding, where a judge decides if there is a prima facie case against the accused. I cannot see how any of that happens, if the audio clears Tostee of murder.

[Farmer77]

Seems like he should have gotten manslaughter or similar to me and done a year or two in prison and a bunch of therapy for many many years. He made poor and violent decisions and someone died as a result.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Booth said:

I would urge you to listen to the recording and consider what I've said. Again, I think you're being naive. Prosecutions often go forward, despite the evidence or lack thereof, for political reasons. 

I live in Queensland, I know they would not expend resources on a doomed prosecution, and there is no political imperative involved.

[psyche101]

5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

An inquest of course, but not a murder trial unless the evidence was sufficient for him to stand trial. If it is the case that it is a water-tight case of him being inside, and her outside, that would have been adjudged either death by misadventure or suicide. They obviously believed the audio could have been interpreted to support a case of murder.

It was a trial. Not a "murder" trial. The prosecution was trying for manslaughter elevated to murder. Neither charge stuck.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It was a trial. Not a "murder" trial. The prosecution was trying for manslaughter elevated to murder. Neither charge stuck.

It was a murder trial. I'm not even sure if the jury had the option of finding him guilty of manslaughter. I would not have found him guilty of either, if I could be satisfied he was on the inside of a closed door, which makes me think that was doubtful.

[Booth]

2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I live in Queensland, I know they would not expend resources on a doomed prosecution, and there is no political imperative involved.

OK, well we simply disagree on that point.

I don't have access to the transcripts. Did the prosecution argue that he left his phone inside, went outside and threw her off the balcony?

[Habitat]

Just now, Booth said:

OK, well we simply disagree on that point.

I don't have access to the transcripts. Did the prosecution argue that he left his phone inside, went outside and threw her off the balcony?

I don't know whether those transcripts are publicly available, but that has to be the presumption, there can be no murder case unless doubt can be construed about which side of the door he is on, when she climbs the rail and then falls. Even then, if there is doubt, Tostee has to get the get the benefit of it. If it really is the case, that there is reasonable doubt established by that audio the case was doomed, and should not have proceeded. I remember at the time thinking this was another botch, after another trial at the time that seemed badly mishandled, which I cannot recall the details of.

[Habitat]

8 minutes ago, Booth said:

I don't have access to the transcripts.

Possibly available here:-

https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/services/transcripts-and-recordings

[psyche101]

24 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I live in Queensland, I know they would not expend resources on a doomed prosecution, and there is no political imperative involved.

The prosecution argued that Ms Wright climbed over the balcony after being locked out there by Tostee because she felt she had no other escape option. Not that he had physical involvement.

[psyche101]

9 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I don't know whether those transcripts are publicly available, but that has to be the presumption, there can be no murder case unless doubt can be construed about which side of the door he is on, when she climbs the rail and then falls. Even then, if there is doubt, Tostee has to get the get the benefit of it. If it really is the case, that there is reasonable doubt established by that audio the case was doomed, and should not have proceeded. I remember at the time thinking this was another botch, after another trial at the time that seemed badly mishandled, which I cannot recall the details of.

I posted the full transcript in post #53

[Habitat]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I posted the full transcript in post #53

I meant the trial in its entirety. As I say, these charges have to get past a committal hearing, before proceeding to trial, that judge must have thought the audio did not exonerate Tostee,

[Habitat]

8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The prosecution argued that Ms Wright climbed over the balcony after being locked out there by Tostee because she felt she had no other escape option. Not that he had physical involvement.

She could have just screamed out madly and woke dozens of people, there is no way Tostee is responsible for what happened, unless he is out on the balcony at the material time. That must have been considered by the prosecution as something they could convince a jury he was out there.

[psyche101]

57 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I meant the trial in its entirety. As I say, these charges have to get past a committal hearing, before proceeding to trial, that judge must have thought the audio did not exonerate Tostee,

Again, he was not ever considered to have been on the balcony or pushed her. The audio does clear that up. That he locked her out there in her intoxicated state was the claim that they considered tantamount to murder. 

55 minutes ago, Habitat said:

She could have just screamed out madly and woke dozens of people, there is no way Tostee is responsible for what happened, unless he is out on the balcony at the material time. That must have been considered by the prosecution as something they could convince a jury he was out there.

She did, she woke the people downstairs when on a balcony. And they would have had doors open to hear her. Inside, she would not have been heard. Any apartment block built on the coast over the last 30 years or so has core filled Besser block walls seperating tenants. It's a fire requirement.

He was never considered to be only the balcony. The prosecution never made that claim as far as I am aware, they claimed she was in fear, and locked out in a situation where she didn't have proper control of her faculties. He was considered responsible for locking her out there, putting her in a dangerous situation that resulted in death. 

[Habitat]

I am actually surprised a book hasn't been written about this case, but I am not even sure it is finished with, within the system, there was talk a year ago of an inquest into it. Given this is several years old, it does seem terribly slow going.

[psyche101]

Just now, Habitat said:

I am actually surprised a book hasn't been written about this case, but I am not even sure it is finished with, within the system, there was talk a year ago of an inquest into it. Given this is several years old, it does seem terribly slow going.

Given how many want to crucify him I agree. 

There won't be any more to this. It is done and dusted.

[Habitat]

Given that the clamour to "get" Tostee was always somewhat muted, I put that down to the average person thinking Wright was a recklessly promiscuous woman who was less worthy of sympathy for that. Not good thinking, but fairly common.

[psyche101]

15 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Given that the clamour to "get" Tostee was always somewhat muted, I put that down to the average person thinking Wright was a recklessly promiscuous woman who was less worthy of sympathy for that. Not good thinking, but fairly common.

I certainly didn't see it like that. Most seemed to consider him guilty as the OPs of these threads would illustrate.

[Habitat]

Just now, psyche101 said:

I certainly didn't see it like that. Most seemed to consider him guilty as the OPs of these threads would illustrate.

He is not a very defensible character, comes across as a complete jerk, but that isn't a criminal offence. I don't know what kind of work he does.