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Great Old Man

Coronavirus Is Identified in the U.S.

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toast
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Well this conversation took a strange turn.

I just saw the timeline with this administrations response to this virus, and all the steps that were taken. The fact that he is being criticized for it is amazing. Well not really, but still. He has responded more quickly and aggressively than any president in this countries history under similar circumstances. In fact the same people dumping on him right now, are the same people who were saying he went to far when it began. He has saved what would probably be thousands of American lives by this point. Buying valuable time for a vaccine to come out.

He isnt the saviour of the world but he would like to play that role, but he is late anyway.

COVID-19 timeline:

  • 07JAN2020: COVID-19 was officially announced as the causative agent by Chinese authorities
  • 19JAN2020:  first ever test-kit was developed by scientists at the Charité University/Berlin
  • JAN 2020: a number of pharma- and biotechnology companies started lab research actions on possible vaccines
  • 13FEB2020: Xinxiang Medical University/China announced phase 1 clinical trial (estimated start date 20FEB2020) on COVID-19 treatment
  • FEB2020: other institutes/hospitals/sponsors announced clinical trials as well (clinicaltrial.gov)
  • 24FEB2020: #45 asks congress for $2.5 Billion to fight coronavirus
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toast
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

WHO director's general warned "this weeks travel ban might do more harm than good. Such restrictions can have the effect of increasing fear and stigma" CNN reported. February 7th

Feb 7th? The situation has changed meanwhile.

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Doug1029
18 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

My argument is the United States has lost all inherent protection from any and all natural disasters. Of course the humanists will argue otherwise. They have to believe that they are in charge of their own destiny, but they are not.

I would argue that the US never had any protection from natural disasters.  A tornado hit Ft. Smith in 1898.  Where was our protection then?

Where was our protection when the tornadoes (two of them) hit Moore, Oklahoma?  I don't recall any warnings from you then.  Or for Hurricane Harvey or ...

Seems like you're pretty selective in your warnings.

Doug

Edited by Doug1029
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preacherman76
10 minutes ago, toast said:

Feb 7th? The situation has changed meanwhile.

Point is the president was taking this more seriously then WHO, and as a result saved lives. 

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toast
10 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Point is the president was taking this more seriously then WHO, and as a result saved lives. 

Tomorrow morning, the sun will rise on the "President`s" order.

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

Trump has prepared the nation for this epidemic by:

1.  Firing the CDC staff whose job it was to prepare for events like this.  He said they weren't needed and if they were, we could get them back real easily.  Most of these folks have now gone to work elsewhere.  What do you think is the chance of us getting them back?  I wouldn't uproot my family a second time for someone who will fire me as soon as the epidemic is over.  Trump can't be trusted and they know it.

2.  Dismantling the labs and terminating experiments that were in progress.  Those labs will have to be re-stocked and copies of pertinent research found and archived.  Ongoing experiments pertinent to the epidemic will have to start over from scratch.

None of this has anything to do with this virus. This was about Ebola. Trump has done nothing to hamper the research for corona. This is exactly they type of deception we have to deal with from the TDS crowd. 

1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

3.  Lying about the disease.  Woodrow Wilson did that with Spanish Flu.  As a result of his sweet platitudes, the country was unprepared and thousands died unnecessarily.  Trump is now doing that with Covid19.  He claimed there were only 15 cases in the US when there were 60 with 83 people quarantined for testing.  He said there were no clusters in the US when there was one in Tacoma.  He is saying that this is no worse than the common cold when the newest mortality rate figures have 3.4% mortality (34 times that of the seasonal flu).
 

lol my goodness. The new figures on the mortality rate are just that. New. He was saying what researchers at the time were saying. Guess he should have had a crystal ball and knew more than what the scientist knew right?

 

1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

4.  To replace competent scientists, he appointed Pence to head the Covid19 task force.  You remember Pence - the guy who tried to control an AIDS epidemic in Illinois by praying it away.

As a result of these incompetent decisions, thousands who believe Trump knows what he's talking about will die.

Trump said he wanted to be the head of government during a war.  He is getting his wish and has already lost the first battle.

Doug

If you don't believe this, please show me my mistake.  Am I wrong?  If so, how?

Doug

Yes you are wrong. Though I suspect you are just parroting the TDS crowd. Yes people are going to die, that’s what viruses like this do. It will have nothing to do with anything Trump did or didn’t do. The same people complaining about This administrations reactions would have let people from infected countries continue to fly here, most likely causing thousands of more cases by now. 

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preacherman76
1 minute ago, toast said:

Tomorrow morning, the sun will rise on the "President`s" order.

Hey I’m not saying the guy is the savior of the country. I’m just saying all the fear mongering that the right steps haven’t been taken are BS. 

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aztek

seems like tds is a bigger danger than corona and ebola combined

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preacherman76

Wonder why the media didn’t go after Obama for waiting 6 months, and 1000 American deaths later before calling a state of emergency for H1N1?

There wasn’t a single death in America before Trump called for a state of emergency. 

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toast
36 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Wonder why the media didn’t go after Obama for waiting 6 months, and 1000 American deaths later before calling a state of emergency for H1N1?

False.

Quote

On Feb. 28, 2020, the website PJ Media published an article claiming that U.S. President Barack Obama had waited until millions were infected and thousands were dead from swine flu, the H1N1 virus, before declaring a public health emergency in 2009. The article, which was presented as a “fact check,” got several simple details wrong.

In response to criticism of U.S. President Donald Trump’s handling of a recent outbreak of a new coronavirus, the PJ Media article opined that Obama had been lackadaisical about his response to a health emergency back in 2009, and that Trump by comparison had done his job admirably.

(...)

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has a detailed timeline of this pandemic on its website. It shows that the CDC first activated its Emergency Operations Center (EOC) on April 22, 2009. At the time, there were only two confirmed cases in the United States. On April 25, 2009, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared a public health emergency of international concern, and the following day the Obama administration did the same. At that time, there were about 20 confirmed cases. 

(...)

In sum, the PJ Media article claimed that Obama “waited” until millions of people were infected with H1N1 before he declared an “emergency.” But that isn’t the case. The Obama administration started to address H1N1 just as the disease emerged in April 2009. A public health emergency was declared on April 26, 2009, when there were about 20 confirmed cases in the United States. The Obama administration renewed this declaration twice in the ensuing months before declaring a national emergency in October 2009. 

snopes

 

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, toast said:

False.

 

Not false.

When the World Health Organization officially declared H1N1 a pandemic in June, American health officials declared a public health emergency, but it wasn't until four months later, October, that then-President Obama declared an H1N1 national emergency. By that time, the disease had infected millions of Americans and more than 1,000 people had died in the U.S.

CNN reported in October 2009:

 

Since the H1N1 flu pandemic began in April, millions of people in the United States have been infected, at least 20,000 have been hospitalized and more than 1,000 have died, said Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [emphasis added]

 

In fact, the Kaiser Family Foundation noted the emergency declaration in its newsletter in October 2009 and described what it does, including giving help to hospitals, triage aid, and ways to segregate the H1N1 patients from other patients:

 

President Barack Obama declared the H1N1 (swine) flu outbreak a national emergency, the Wall Street Journal reports. “The declaration, which Mr. Obama signed Friday, authorizes the administration to waive or modify certain federal requirements involving Medicare, Medicaid and health-privacy rules to speed treatment,” the newspaper writes (McKay/Simpson/Whalen, 10/26).

 

The national emergency declaration will “allow hospitals and governments on the local level to more rapidly prepare triage sites and procedures to handle any future surge in sick patients,” TIME writes. “A hospital in danger of being overrun by H1N1 patients would be allowed to segregate them in a separate site for treatment, which might slow the spread of the disease” (Walsh, 10/24).

“The declaration Saturday did not signify any unanticipated worsening in the United States of the H1N1 outbreak, officials said,” the New York Times reports. “It seemed likely, however, to increase concerns, disruptions and at times, panicky reactions, to a disease now affecting most parts of the world.” U.S. health officials on Friday said more than 1,000 Americans have died from H1N1 (Calmes/McNeil, 10/25).

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

None of this has anything to do with this virus. This was about Ebola. Trump has done nothing to hamper the research for corona. This is exactly they type of deception we have to deal with from the TDS crowd. 

And because he did that, the people we need to fight Covid19 are now somewhere else.  So what if the research topic at the time was ebola?  These people are infectious disease experts.  And your Idiot-in-Chief got rid of this line of defense against Covid19  along with the efforts against ebola.  That pretty well defines "stupid."

1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

lol my goodness. The new figures on the mortality rate are just that. New. He was saying what researchers at the time were saying. Guess he should have had a crystal ball and knew more than what the scientist knew right?

He had several top scientists standing right beside him during the broadcast.  They contradicted him without even an intervening commercial.  Trump did speak first, he apparently hadn't been briefed or wasn't paying attention.  He pretended he knew what he was talking about.  All he had to do was defer to the experts, but his ego is too big to let him do that.  I saw the broadcast.  It was the first one he gave after returning from India.

Knowing that new figures are coming out daily, one would either not use them, or add a disclaimer, like "according to figures just released by..."  

1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Yes you are wrong. Though I suspect you are just parroting the TDS crowd. Yes people are going to die, that’s what viruses like this do. It will have nothing to do with anything Trump did or didn’t do. The same people complaining about This administrations reactions would have let people from infected countries continue to fly here, most likely causing thousands of more cases by now. 

We know people are going to die.  But why kill more than necessary?

The first line of defense is to maintain the public's confidence in their president/government.  When the president's words don't match what people are seeing, they lose that confidence and don't believe anything the government tells them, even when it's right.  That is what happened when Wilson lied.  Past is prologue.

Doug

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Yes you are wrong.

So where is the mistake?  Or don't you know, either.

Doug

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Hey I’m not saying the guy is the savior of the country. I’m just saying all the fear mongering that the right steps haven’t been taken are BS. 

So what right steps did he take?

Doug

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Doug1029
1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

There wasn’t a single death in America before Trump called for a state of emergency. 

Trump declared the state of emergency on February 15th.  The first death was reported on February 29th.

BUT:  what has he done since then?

Doug

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Doug1029

Our healthcare system is not up to this fight.

With the healthcare system's insistence on extreme profits, those without insurance will be bankrupt if they seek help.  They cannot afford medical care and if working, cannot afford to take time off, especially for what seems like a cold.  So they spend the next two weeks spreading it to everybody they meet.  And that might include me (or you).

The epidemic is going to the a poster-child for why we need Medicare-for-All.

Doug

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Michelle

AP FACT CHECK: Democrats distort coronavirus readiness

 Democratic presidential contenders are describing the federal infectious-disease bureaucracy as rudderless and ill-prepared for the coronavirus threat because of budget cuts and ham-handed leadership by President Donald Trump. That’s a distorted picture. For starters, Trump hasn’t succeeded in cutting the budget.

He’s proposed cuts but Congress ignored him and increased financing instead. The National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention aren’t suffering from budget cuts that never took effect.

A look at some of the Democrats’ remarks:

cont...

https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

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preacherman76
50 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

And because he did that, the people we need to fight Covid19 are now somewhere else.  So what if the research topic at the time was ebola?  These people are infectious disease experts.  And your Idiot-in-Chief got rid of this line of defense against Covid19  along with the efforts against ebola.  That pretty well defines "stupid."

The top scientists, not from just America, but from all over the world are working on this as we speak. That is a fact. This administration is also working hand in hand with the top drug companies to create a vaccine, which really at this point are the only scientists in the short term that matter.

50 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

He had several top scientists standing right beside him during the broadcast.  They contradicted him without even an intervening commercial.  Trump did speak first, he apparently hadn't been briefed or wasn't paying attention.  He pretended he knew what he was talking about.  All he had to do was defer to the experts, but his ego is too big to let him do that.  I saw the broadcast.  It was the first one he gave after returning from India.

Knowing that new figures are coming out daily, one would either not use them, or add a disclaimer, like "according to figures just released by..."  

The news of the over 3% death rate came out today. And regardless of whether or not anyone got this statistic right or wrong for a few minutes, in no way saves or kills anyone. It is what it is. And its known. Not one in American has died over it.

50 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

We know people are going to die.  But why kill more than necessary?

The first line of defense is to maintain the public's confidence in their president/government.  When the president's words don't match what people are seeing, they lose that confidence and don't believe anything the government tells them, even when it's right.  That is what happened when Wilson lied.  Past is prologue.

Doug

No one is being intentionally misinformed. At least not anymore. Like I said, if we believed the people who have done nothing but criticize, we would have many more cases in this country right now. The first line of defense is action. Action that took place in the way of travel restrictions. It was the first and most important move to make, and he was told by everyone, on both sides, not to do it. His own people were telling him there would be political consequences, but he did it anyway. And was called a racist for it. He then involuntary quarantined  all Americans who were coming home from infected areas. Which was obviously the right move as well.

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

Our healthcare system is not up to this fight.

With the healthcare system's insistence on extreme profits, those without insurance will be bankrupt if they seek help.  They cannot afford medical care and if working, cannot afford to take time off, especially for what seems like a cold.  So they spend the next two weeks spreading it to everybody they meet.  And that might include me (or you).

The epidemic is going to the a poster-child for why we need Medicare-for-All.

Doug

Medicare for all wouldn't help in this situation. More hospitals and beds would. No one gets turned away in this country for emergencies.

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Robotic Jew
10 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Medicare for all wouldn't help in this situation. More hospitals and beds would. No one gets turned away in this country for emergencies.

They get their fevers reduced, stabilized and put back out on the street with a prescription in hand that they may or may not be able to afford. 

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Doug1029
11 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

The news of the over 3% death rate came out today. And regardless of whether or not anyone got this statistic right or wrong for a few minutes, in no way saves or kills anyone. It is what it is. And its known. Not one in American has died over it.

Trump's whitewash broadcast was a week ago, February 26th.  The first coronavirus death in the US was the 29th.  The second one was yesterday, March 3rd.  In both cases, the patients were probably infected about ten days earlier.  That makes two and we could very well have another two or three as I write.  Within two weeks, new deaths in America will be a daily occurrence.  Most of those are already infected.

The exact mortality rate is unknown anyway and will be unknowable until this is over.  All that is needed is enough honesty from those who purport to lead us to admit that they don't know what will happen, but to promulgate the best information they have at the moment with a warning that this is not the last word on the subject.

Doug

 

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Doug1029
27 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Medicare for all wouldn't help in this situation. More hospitals and beds would. No one gets turned away in this country for emergencies.

It's not that they will be turned away.  They will not go because they know it means bankruptcy for them and their families.  But why risk that for a disease you're probably going to survive anyway?  Better just to spread it all over the place.

Doug

Edited by Doug1029

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toast
49 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Our healthcare system is not up to this fight.

With the healthcare system's insistence on extreme profits, those without insurance will be bankrupt if they seek help.  They cannot afford medical care and if working, cannot afford to take time off, especially for what seems like a cold.  So they spend the next two weeks spreading it to everybody they meet.  And that might include me (or you).

The epidemic is going to the a poster-child for why we need Medicare-for-All.

Doug

Thats something I thought about last week already: will the healthcare issue in the US have an impact on the dissemination of the virus and on the death rate as well? Based on todays global death toll I calculated a quick&dirty evaluation (country, number of infected/number of fatalities, infected/death ration in %): China 80282/2981, 3,71% // S-Korea 5621/35, 0,62% // Italy 3089/107, 3,46% // Iran 2922/92 3,15%  // Japan 331/6, 1,81% // Germany 262/0, 0,0% // France 257/4, 1,56% // Spain 222/2, 0,90% // UK 85/0, 0,00% // USA 137/11, 8,03%.

Am I right, assuming that the very high value in the US is connected to the possibility some people do not visit a doctor in case of symptoms because they dont have the money or an insurance to get a medical examination? Is there a related law over there which grant medical examination /treatment for free in case of a potential epidemic, which pose a threat to national security?

Edited by toast
Calculation
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Doug1029
21 hours ago, Eldorado said:

Update:

"The total number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Washington state rose to 27, including nine deaths, up from 18 cases and six deaths a day earlier, the state Department of Health reported.

"Eight of those who died from the respiratory illness were in King County and one was in neighbouring Snohomish County, officials said.

"All 27 confirmed cases are clustered in those two counties in the greater Seattle area, making it the largest concentration detected to date in the United States."

At Reuters: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-usa/three-more-die-in-seattle-area-from-coronavirus-as-us-promises-one-million-test-kits-idUKKBN20Q266

That's seven additional deaths since I saw last night's news.  I'm a little behind here.

That we now have a cluster of cases that have escaped from containment is undeniable.

Doug

Edited by Doug1029
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Doug1029
1 minute ago, toast said:

Thats something I thought about last week already: will the healthcare issue in the US have an impact on the dissemination of the virus and on the death rate as well? Based on todays global death toll I calculated a quick&dirty evaluation (country, number of infected/number of fatalities, infected/death ration in %): China 80282/2981, 3,71% // S-Korea 5621/35, 0,62% // Italy 3089/107, 3,46% // Iran 2922/923,15%      // Japan 331/6, 1,81% // Germany 262/0, 0,0% // France 257/4, 1,56% // Spain 222/2, 0,90% // UK 85/0, 0,00% // USA 137/11, 8,03%.

Am I right, assuming that the very high value in the US is connected to the possibility some people do not visit a doctor in case of symptoms because they dont have the money or an insurance to get a medical examination? Is there a related law over there which grant medical examination /treatment for free in case of a potential epidemic, which pose a threat to national security?

Your numbers should be close.

Another reason people don't go to the doctor is that the initial onset of the disease is pretty mild.  People may not even realize they have anything.  Then it clears up for 10 to 14 days before they really get sick.  So even if they get help then, they have already spread it to most of their friends and family.

Doug

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