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Great Old Man

Wuhan virus was built by lab ?

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Manwon Lender
26 minutes ago, toast said:

Besides Corona, the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory is doing research on SARS, Zika, Ebola and a lot of other infectious disease pathogens. Can you please provide a report, published by the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, which confirm the most lab hours are spend on research on the Corona pathogen?

Here is something that you at find interesting, and it should put an end to some of these conspiracies theories. Here an Israeli Bio-weapons expert says that while the Chinese are known to conduct Bio-Weapons engineering. There is no reason to beleive that it is what caused this outbreak, however he does list ways it could have happened.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Great Old Man

one more conspiracy,

Globalist George Soros owns  company in Wuhan, which is named Wuxi app tech in 666 district of Wuhan.(Bio company, original name was Wuxi Pharma tech)

Wuxi app tech has subsidiary company in Korea too, in Kyeongido- Bundang.

The Korea movie "the Flu" 's scenario is exactly same as Wuhan's lockdown and movie's background was Kyeongido-Bundang.(Bundang was lock-downed  in movie)

 

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Great Old Man
5 hours ago, toast said:

Besides Corona, the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory is doing research on SARS, Zika, Ebola and a lot of other infectious disease pathogens. Can you please provide a report, published by the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, which confirm the most lab hours are spend on research on the Corona pathogen?

They made several reports about Corona pathogen. and Washington times also reported "secret bio-weapon" program in China.


http://english.whiov.cas.cn/Research/Research_Progress/index_2.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4810638/

Isolation and Characterization of a Novel Bat Coronavirus Closely Related to the Direct Progenitor of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus

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and then
13 hours ago, toast said:

Japan didnt "invested" 52 years to upgrade to BSL4. The construction, technology and set-up of a BSL4 lab isnt rocket science, the knowledge about the how-to isnt classified and it is available without restrictions. 

The piece I read about the concerns of the international community stated the reason for worry with the Chinese system wasn't their infrastructure but was their culture in general.  Seems they were worried that the tendency to secrecy and the unwillingness to be open with their government and supervisors could lead to individuals ignoring or lying about mistakes they might have made in the labs. 

I have no idea if that was the problem but I do understand the limitations and dangers of an organization that punishes mistakes severely and without mercy.  FWIW, I doubt any government would be insane enough to unleash a pandemic on its own citizens.  Maybe I'm naive, but that action is just unthinkable to me.

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Great Old Man
6 hours ago, toast said:

Besides Corona, the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory is doing research on SARS, Zika, Ebola and a lot of other infectious disease pathogens. Can you please provide a report, published by the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, which confirm the most lab hours are spend on research on the Corona pathogen?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-wuhan-has-two-laboratories-linked-chines/

Dany Shoham, a former Israeli military intelligence officer who has studied Chinese bio warfare, said the institute is linked to Beijing’s covert biological weapons program.

at least, It is proven that Wuhan National Bio lab is studying SARS. 

also China stealed  some secret of Canada Disease Lab in 2019.

 

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openozy
On 1/25/2020 at 3:37 AM, Piney said:

Dieback cycle, a natural occurrence with large populations. Viruses are opportunists

Some would call it Mother nature.Humans really need this.

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toast
13 minutes ago, Great Old Man said:

Dany Shoham, a former Israeli military intelligence officer who has studied Chinese bio warfare, said the institute is linked to Beijing’s covert biological weapons program. also China stealed  some secret of Canada Disease Lab in 2019.

None of the links confirm the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory to be working on the Corona virus only. If you place a claim, it should be provable. If not, the claim is BS and you placed such a BS claim.

Quote

at least, It is proven that Wuhan National Bio lab is studying SARS. 

Thats well known to the public from the founding of the institute on. Was it new to you? If yes, what do you think is an institute with a BSL4 infrastructure for? Creating new Wonton cooking receipts?

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toast
2 hours ago, and then said:

The piece I read about the concerns of the international community stated the reason for worry with the Chinese system wasn't their infrastructure but was their culture in general.  Seems they were worried that the tendency to secrecy and the unwillingness to be open with their government and supervisors could lead to individuals ignoring or lying about mistakes they might have made in the labs.

Thats correct and my opinion as well. But I had to bust the OPs claim/s.

Quote

I have no idea if that was the problem but I do understand the limitations and dangers of an organization that punishes mistakes severely and without mercy.  FWIW, I doubt any government would be insane enough to unleash a pandemic on its own citizens.  Maybe I'm naive, but that action is just unthinkable to me.

The Chinese are a kind of ruthless IMHO but they are not stupid. If they would do experiments with its citizens, they would do that in a remote village but not in a city with 8M people, which is one of the economic and industrial hotspots of the country.

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darkmoonlady

I guess my cats are bioweapons creators too, last year they contracted the cat coronavirus and were extremely ill for a good two weeks. Coronaviruses exist everywhere and can cross species. If this were a created Corona virus it's a highly inefficient and not very lethal version. Compared to the flu which has already killed 6000 people this flu season and has killed thousands more in the last few years. Eventually we will get hit with a novel and high mortality virus, but this isn't it. 

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Great Old Man
6 hours ago, toast said:

Thats correct and my opinion as well. But I had to bust the OPs claim/s.

The Chinese are a kind of ruthless IMHO but they are not stupid. If they would do experiments with its citizens, they would do that in a remote village but not in a city with 8M people, which is one of the economic and industrial hotspots of the country.

I totally agree with you, I also have logical fallacy.

the reason why I wrote this article was some Chinese blames their own lab. ( in twitter)

I also hope this incident is just natural disaster.

 

 

 

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RoofGardener
On 1/24/2020 at 4:18 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I agree we should not jump to conclusions, but this is something that does appear to be an important issue. Doesn't it seem a little strange that since 2003 all these new Viruses are suddenly appearing.  

Coronavirus outbreaks: it appears according to latest data that all these Viral infections originated by contact with Bats.

1) SARS first reported in China Nov 2002

2) MERS first reported in Saudi Arabia in Jun 2012

3) 2019-nCoV first reported in China Dec 2019

It appears that these Viral infections are becoming more and more common. The question is why now, are these Viruses suddenly mutating and infecting humans. These viruses have been carried by animals for hundreds of years, but now in the last 16 years they have started breaking the animal to human barrier. It should also be noted that these infections are occurring in parts of the world where health care is poor, and poverty is rife. Time will tell how bad this is going to become, but we have to face the fact that this only the beginning. 

Peace

I suspect they are not so much becoming more common, as much as being more readily identified. 40 years ago, SARS would have been considered as a form of Pneumonia, and not given a separate name. 

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kartikg

If they can't contain the outbreak, Chinese will deliberately spread it to other nations so that they too will suffer, China would not want to be the only one to suffer economic and human losses which will leave it weak and at an disadvantage. In such circumstances any nation would spread the virus so that it is not the only one to suffer. 

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darkmoonlady
22 minutes ago, kartikg said:

If they can't contain the outbreak, Chinese will deliberately spread it to other nations so that they too will suffer, China would not want to be the only one to suffer economic and human losses which will leave it weak and at an disadvantage. In such circumstances any nation would spread the virus so that it is not the only one to suffer. 

International travel has already done that..The Stand is not a scientific textbook.

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I suspect they are not so much becoming more common, as much as being more readily identified. 40 years ago, SARS would have been considered as a form of Pneumonia, and not given a separate name. 

The big difference between 40 years ago and now is now we use genetic testing to determine where the Virus came from, back then they wouldn't have known what caused it. While this Virus does cause pneumonia in some people others don't get pneumonia. In all cases it starts like a cold with high fever, how far it progresses depends upon the persons over all health and strength of their immune system.

Peace

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Abaddonire
17 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

I totally agree with you, I also have logical fallacy.

the reason why I wrote this article was some Chinese blames their own lab. ( in twitter)

I also hope this incident is just natural disaster.

 

 

 

Oh,no. You don't have a "logical fallacy". You have an entire buffet. There is no crankery that you will not endorse.

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Great Old Man

 

Harvard Prof. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding claims that this disease isn't from Wuhan seafood market.

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Robotic Jew

Why does the good boy always get the blame?

 

Image result for black lab science

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

 

Harvard Prof. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding claims that this disease isn't from Wuhan seafood market.

Hey partner, the disease is not from the Wohan Seafood Market, those reports have been proven to inaccurate. The CDC has isolated the Genome for the Virus, and the results clearly show that like SARS the 2019-nCoV is genetically from Bats. The only question now that hasn't been answered yet is how and where the Virus was transmitted from Bats. So many of these questions could be answered if China wasn't so slow to react to this crisis. If patient Zero had been located in the beginning most if not all of these questions would have been answered by this time and site could have been destroyed.  Now, it is possible that we will never know how and where the Virus jumped from Bats to humans.

This creates another problem, without finding the location of the first infection a disease reservoir is somewhere waiting for another human to be possibly infected by a mutated form of this Virus or a completely Novel Virus that has never been seen before. Back in 2002 when SARS received world attention, the same thing happened, the Virus Genome showed that Bats were where the Virus orginated. But they never located patient zero or located the area where the Bat to Human transmission took place, 

Another thing that must be considered, is why are these animal to human transmissions taking place in China. What makes China special concerning these transmissions, and what can be done to possibly identify the next outbreak before it happens.

Peace

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Desertrat56
4 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Another thing that must be considered, is why are these animal to human transmissions taking place in China. What makes China special concerning these transmissions, and what can be done to possibly identify the next outbreak before it happens.

I suspect the answer is poverty.

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Abaddonire
9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Hey partner, the disease is not from the Wohan Seafood Market, those reports have been proven to inaccurate. The CDC has isolated the Genome for the Virus, and the results clearly show that like SARS the 2019-nCoV is genetically from Bats. The only question now that hasn't been answered yet is how and where the Virus was transmitted from Bats. So many of these questions could be answered if China wasn't so slow to react to this crisis. If patient Zero had been located in the beginning most if not all of these questions would have been answered by this time and site could have been destroyed.  Now, it is possible that we will never know how and where the Virus jumped from Bats to humans.

I have to agree. The foot dragging of the Chinese gov simply makes identifying the vector increasingly difficult.

9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

This creates another problem, without finding the location of the first infection a disease reservoir is somewhere waiting for another human to be possibly infected by a mutated form of this Virus or a completely Novel Virus that has never been seen before. Back in 2002 when SARS received world attention, the same thing happened, the Virus Genome showed that Bats were where the Virus orginated. But they never located patient zero or located the area where the Bat to Human transmission took place, 

Same is true of Ebola. Nobody really knows if some Ebola strain is lurking out there in some forgotten cave waiting to strike.

9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Another thing that must be considered, is why are these animal to human transmissions taking place in China. What makes China special concerning these transmissions, and what can be done to possibly identify the next outbreak before it happens.

Peace

I suggest population concentration is a massive factor. YMMV.

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Obviousman
9 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

 

Harvard Prof. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding claims that this disease isn't from Wuhan seafood market.

This is a good example of why I place little credence in anything you say.

  • Dr Eric Feigl-Ding never claimed the disease isn't from the seafood market; at best he said that it "... isn't the full story."
  • Dr Eric Feigl-Ding's Tweet referenced an article in Science magazine, written by Jon Cohen
  • Jon Cohen refers to two things related to this discussion: a report published in the The Lancet (of which Dr Feigl-Ding was NOT one of the authors),; and subsequent comments from Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University
  • The Lancet report said that only 27 of the 41 confirmed cases had exposure to the seafood market and that no epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases

gr1.jpg

  •  In the Science article, Daniel Lucey says that if the data is accurate then the first infections occurred in November 2019 or earlier, and that suggested that the virus origin was elsewhere. Daniel Lucey said "The virus came into that marketplace before it came out of that marketplace"

So, in fact, it was Daniel Lucey who asserts that the seafood market was not the epicentre. In the Science article, this was noted as being a possibility by Kristian Andersen, an evolutionary biologist at the Scripps Research Institute. They said that Lucey's scenario of somebody being infected outside the market and then later bringing it to the market is one of the three scenarios that was consistent with the data.

Bin Cao of Capital Medical University, the corresponding author of The Lancet article said that he and his co-authors “appreciate the criticism” from Lucey. He said that “Now It seems clear that [the] seafood market is not the only origin of the virus...  ...but to be honest, we still do not know where the virus came from now.”

THOSE are the facts so far.

 

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Manwon Lender
On 1/26/2020 at 1:30 AM, toast said:

194 countries on this planet, approximately 18 of them operate BSL4 labs, thats <10%. One is in my home town at the BNITM , in total we have 4 BSL4 labs here in Germany.

No, experiments and research on deadly diseases isnt a kind of game. It is important research with very clear targets: to identify its triggers, developing options for diagnosis, developing options for prevention, looking for treatments and vaccines against the illness/epidemics.

I do agree with you, but to think our governments aren't also involved in Biological Weapons Research is very Naivety. Now from what I know about you here on the forum according to your posts, I don't think you fit into that category, so there must be another reason you hesitate to mention the possibility.

Peace Brother.

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Obviousman said:

This is a good example of why I place little credence in anything you say.

  • Dr Eric Feigl-Ding never claimed the disease isn't from the seafood market; at best he said that it "... isn't the full story."
  • Dr Eric Feigl-Ding's Tweet referenced an article in Science magazine, written by Jon Cohen
  • Jon Cohen refers to two things related to this discussion: a report published in the The Lancet (of which Dr Feigl-Ding was NOT one of the authors),; and subsequent comments from Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University
  • The Lancet report said that only 27 of the 41 confirmed cases had exposure to the seafood market and that no epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases

gr1.jpg

  •  In the Science article, Daniel Lucey says that if the data is accurate then the first infections occurred in November 2019 or earlier, and that suggested that the virus origin was elsewhere. Daniel Lucey said "The virus came into that marketplace before it came out of that marketplace"

So, in fact, it was Daniel Lucey who asserts that the seafood market was not the epicentre. In the Science article, this was noted as being a possibility by Kristian Andersen, an evolutionary biologist at the Scripps Research Institute. They said that Lucey's scenario of somebody being infected outside the market and then later bringing it to the market is one of the three scenarios that was consistent with the data.

Bin Cao of Capital Medical University, the corresponding author of The Lancet article said that he and his co-authors “appreciate the criticism” from Lucey. He said that “Now It seems clear that [the] seafood market is not the only origin of the virus...  ...but to be honest, we still do not know where the virus came from now.”

THOSE are the facts so far.

 

The Seafood Market could not be the epicenter of the infection. The CDC has determined the the carrier of the Virus are Bats according to the Genetic makeup of the Virus. This also conforms with the previous outbreak in 2002 of the SARS Virus. The biggest problem they are having at this time is their inability to identify patient zero or the actual disease reservoir that the infection came from. This was also the case with the SARS Virus, so since both of these Viruses started in China, and they are definitely linked to Bats.

It would seem like they would be looking for locations in and around Wohan where Bat colonies exist. At least this way they could take genetic samples from Bats and compare them with the Viral samples that were taken from humans to find the location of the actual disease reservoir and destroy it before other possible infections can mutate and cross the Bat Human barrier like this Virus did. However, to date there is no mention of using this process to locate the disease reservoir, but maybe they are doing it and just not talking about yet.

Peace

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Manwon Lender
5 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I suspect the answer is poverty.

Yes I agree that poverty is certainly a factor as far as the spread is concerned, but this Virus / Infection has little to nothing to do with the unsanitary conditions people are living in. Everything in this case and the case of SARS clearly shows that the infections are the result of some kind of contact with Bats. This has been proven by the CDC and the Chinese by breaking down samples of the Virus genetically that were taken from infected humans. The problem is they never located patient zero or the disease reservoir so until they do find that location it is a ticking time bomb waiting for the next mutation of the Virus to cross contaminate another human which will start the entire pricess over and over again and could be much much much worst.

Peace

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jaylemurph
On 1/26/2020 at 2:42 AM, bee said:

 

 

just had a look and the other episodes are on the same channel...

I'm going to watch the whole series again... 
there may be very useful info in it... you know... tips and whatnot just in case..

in that first episode the scene where the guy layed it out how utterly interdependent we all
are... was good... how we have lost all the skills and knowledge to make most things ourselves...

"could you even make a candle...?" he asked the main character who had survived a bout of
the virus... and he said that at best he could make a stone tool...

and that scene in London when the woman just about escaped being sexually assaulted and raped
by a random group of men who were emboldened by the collapse of law and order... that was a
cautionary tale.. and that was the 1970's.... forward to 2020. and I don't think she would have got
away so easily.. let's put it like this... in 2020 there are more diverse groups vying for power and
control who would use a power vacuum to further what they want,,

anyway thanks again for putting the first in the series up .... lots of little thoughtful twists in it like when
that man died clutching a bag and when the woman opened it it was full of money.. but what good was
money then... no good at all...

Survivors; Eps 2. Genesis


other episodes on the same channel...

 

...okay, watching The Survivors for "survival technqiues" is a /little/ funny. At least. Terry Nation was a scriptwriter, not a survivalist. He didn't even do national service. Watch Bear Gryllis or something better instead.

Are you going to watch Terry's Doctor Who stories for anti-Dalek fighting tips or Blake[']s 7 for antifa techniques, too? (Aim for the eye-piece!)

--Jaylemurph

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