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Illuminous Operations

Otherkin Religious Identity

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Illuminous Operations
23 hours ago, GlitterRose said:

In the Abrahamic faiths the soul and the body are the same, so if someone identifies as angelkin they are basically in violation of the established teachings, simply because the concept of reincarnation does not exist in the Abrahamic religion. If you identify as angelkin for example there’s an incompatibility here. It’s one life and then an eternal afterlife of either hell or heaven in the Abrahamic Faiths and therefore you couldn’t have spent past lives being an angel. The same of course applies to any otherkin identity based on this one life and then an eternal fate system.

This bit is exceptionally horrid because they make up a new word...angelkin...and insist it's not compatible with Abrahamic religions...

and they don't seem to even know that Abrahamic faiths already had a word for it...Nephilim. 

Not saying I believe in Nephilim...but at least I know it's in there. It's a part of Abrahamic beliefs. 

Derp.

Nephalim are the creation of the fallen angel Azazel and his people who had sex with human females and created a half human half angel hybrid.  They are the height of Annukites (about 15 feet tall) but without wings.  Apparently drinking blood is a thing.  This is explained in the Book of Enoch and also in the Torah.

An angelkin in my particular document is not a hybrid between a human and an angel, but a person who spent a past life as an Annukite and then reincarnated into human form and was reborn as a human.  For this reason Nephalim are compatible with the Abrahamic faiths, but angelkin are not.

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Illuminous Operations
6 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Aww, that is cute. Is this my cue to be all butt hurt now?  

Well, I never got into spelling "magic" with a k in it to designate some other, special kind, it is true. I also have not discussed or made any claim about magic (however and whichever way you want to spell it) with you. 

Life is a journey, not an arrival point and believe it or not, if one's goal, one's real passion, is for TRUTH, then it can be a long and occasionally surprising one depending on the roads you choose. 

Let's see, given your age of 39, writing otherkin material suitable for appealing to young people with a cliché name like "Magus" and using forums and critics to polish it ... I doubt that really is your goal, though, is it?

23 hours ago you said "The only real magic is the ability to transform and grow through a lifetime. I want to end better than I began and I am doing that, so "magic" still works for me, it just is not all hocus pocus stuff. The really great stuff is all inside."

So I assumed you were a skeptic and not a practitioner.  I would not expect an active practicioner of magick to say the only magic is the ability to self to transform and grow or to describe the craft as hocus pocus stuff.  I pointed out this assumption and specifically described it as an assumption so you could correct me if I was wrong or confirm it if I was right.  It was not my intention to offend you.  When gauging feedback it's easier if I put people in categories.  The spelling of magick with a k is a Thelema thing.

My goal in posting in this group is not so much to polish this document which has reached it's final phase as to get feedback on it.  The website gets between 1 - 3 million views and visitors a year and I hardly post it on message boards because I am not getting enough attention.  My intention is sincerely to get feedback.  As far as following a journey and pursuit of truth that is also part of my goal.  Ergo posting this here and trying to get feedback.

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Illuminous Operations
7 hours ago, Piney said:

That's funny, my Buddhist Temple does the interdenominational thing with both a Hindu and Sikh Temple and I never heard of this.

As for "Ancient Aliens" it's debunkable to the point of ridiculous and racist as Hell. 

The History Channel documentation is actually rather biased, and a lot of their claims are disproven online on YouTube videos.  They tend to pretend to have talking points from both sides, but only portray belivable talking points about how they are right and only lame ones about how they are wrong to make it look as if they are being unbiased when they are not.  I'll give you that.

However the idea is not inconcievable that there is life outside this unvierse and that reincarnation exists on other planets that have life.  I don't know why you haven't learned of this.  I do not remember what the three words for planets are as they are in Sanskrit, but they translated to "heaven" "hell" and "neutral" worlds based on suffering.  I was told by the same Hindus that they have understood there were planets for a long time.  The only difference between the scientific version of planets and the Hindu version is that in Hinduism moons would be considered planets.  Maybe the reason you have not heard of this is that you have not specifically asked about it?  One of the priests who came to the Hare Krishna Ashram I regularly attended even gave a talk about stories in the Vedas (Hindu scriptures) of chariots that travel through the air back when technology used to be more advanced before the dark ages.

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Piney
1 hour ago, Illuminous Operations said:

However the idea is not inconcievable that there is life outside this unvierse and that reincarnation exists on other planets that have life.  I don't know why you haven't learned of this. 

I have learned of reincarnation although a monk like myself can choose not to come back but instead join Tian, the Living Universe and lose identity (non-existence) 

And if your talking to Hare Krishnas. They are a cult and not recognized by mainstream sects and the ancient Indo-Aryans never had advanced technology.

 

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Not A Rockstar
43 minutes ago, Illuminous Operations said:

23 hours ago you said "The only real magic is the ability to transform and grow through a lifetime. I want to end better than I began and I am doing that, so "magic" still works for me, it just is not all hocus pocus stuff. The really great stuff is all inside."

So I assumed you were a skeptic and not a practitioner.  I would not expect an active practicioner of magick to say the only magic is the ability to self to transform and grow or to describe the craft as hocus pocus stuff.  I pointed out this assumption and specifically described it as an assumption so you could correct me if I was wrong or confirm it if I was right.  It was not my intention to offend you.  When gauging feedback it's easier if I put people in categories.  The spelling of magick with a k is a Thelema thing.

No worries. It takes an awful lot to offend me. I was just laughing to read what you said. You have several Adepts in many diverse practices on your thread here. There is even a fully awake and aware lightworking Sirian on it (talk about otherkin lmao)… a couple others I am not going to "out" and then there is just me.  That all of them find your writing to be 1. ok reading, 2. not quite right, but a phase of the process of thinking and sorting, and 3. questionable, is not that bad, actually. Nobody has even been mean to you. There have been blood baths here on this forum that even made me wince for posters :(  

Anyway, Define magick. What is the whole point of it? Seriously, even if you answer just to yourself. If you cannot then you do not even really know what you are aiming for. It is needful to know, specifically, what each person seeking is looking for and expecting, for themselves if they pursue this path of learning.

All of it, all "the craft", all of the Crowley waste and drama and the rest of it comes down to a thread of tales that weave in and out of several cultures to the effect of spinning straw into gold (Rumpelstiltkin anyone?) or changing rocks into gold (alchemy tales?). Even Jesus, in your Abrahamic material there, said to sow to your spirit, because nothing in this world was gonna survive your death for you. Only that is eternal. How about "Know thyself" from Socrates? Things of that sort, easily overlooked by the Seeker as trivial. (Yeah, yeah, whatever, show me the POWER, man).

Yet this is what it is all about, to me, in the end. Taking the straw in any given lifetime and working it into inward gold, refining it, transforming it, always with the goal to end better and more aware than I began. Learn, live, move forward, improve.

All those old texts and tales are useless if you do not have the eyes to read it and realize what you are really reading. They are chock full of enough stuff to keep people distracted and occupied for lifetimes, and they succeed. Smaller, useful things, so not a total waste of time, but not the real point. Still, they serve the purpose of guiding the younger Seekers, with teaching at the level they grasp, which is no small thing and the very reason for all the "stuff". Kind of magical how all the stuff is actually a mass lesson plan for every level of Seeker, in one. That is your Thelema, The "Craft", the best and the worst about it. It is not the only tradition, though, not even the oldest or even close. It is just one, and better known in the West than some others. As you believe in reincarnation, you should totally resonate with the idea that for some, other trads are what they belong to and have stronger affinities with. 

Of course it has a lot of hocus pocus in it. All the great and real traditions do, but, they also have a thread through that leads to progress and growing awareness and evolution of the mind for an individual. For that, it is worthwhile to keep around. I worked with it for many years before I moved on to a different paradigm, completed there and worked it for a couple decades and ran my own House before I really woke up and shut it down. I finally got it. It was none of it an arrival point, just a way, a means to an end, a section of the journey.

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Desertrat56
On 1/25/2020 at 3:18 PM, Illuminous Operations said:

This documentation will talk about otherkin,

Could you please define "otherkin" at the top of your post so I know whether I want to spend time reading more?

I want YOUR definition of "otherkin".

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Illuminous Operations
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Could you please define "otherkin" at the top of your post so I know whether I want to spend time reading more?

I want YOUR definition of "otherkin".

Otherkin - A person who unlike the majority of humans who have spent past lives as animals on this world has spent past lives as a more advanced sentient being, usually on another world, and has come in this life to reincarnate into a human body.  I.E. Angelkin could be Annukites, Dragonkin could have been actual dragons, etc etc.

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Illuminous Operations
13 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

No worries. It takes an awful lot to offend me. I was just laughing to read what you said. You have several Adepts in many diverse practices on your thread here. There is even a fully awake and aware lightworking Sirian on it (talk about otherkin lmao)… a couple others I am not going to "out" and then there is just me.  That all of them find your writing to be 1. ok reading, 2. not quite right, but a phase of the process of thinking and sorting, and 3. questionable, is not that bad, actually. Nobody has even been mean to you. There have been blood baths here on this forum that even made me wince for posters :(  

Anyway, Define magick. What is the whole point of it? Seriously, even if you answer just to yourself. If you cannot then you do not even really know what you are aiming for. It is needful to know, specifically, what each person seeking is looking for and expecting, for themselves if they pursue this path of learning.

All of it, all "the craft", all of the Crowley waste and drama and the rest of it comes down to a thread of tales that weave in and out of several cultures to the effect of spinning straw into gold (Rumpelstiltkin anyone?) or changing rocks into gold (alchemy tales?). Even Jesus, in your Abrahamic material there, said to sow to your spirit, because nothing in this world was gonna survive your death for you. Only that is eternal. How about "Know thyself" from Socrates? Things of that sort, easily overlooked by the Seeker as trivial. (Yeah, yeah, whatever, show me the POWER, man).

Yet this is what it is all about, to me, in the end. Taking the straw in any given lifetime and working it into inward gold, refining it, transforming it, always with the goal to end better and more aware than I began. Learn, live, move forward, improve.

All those old texts and tales are useless if you do not have the eyes to read it and realize what you are really reading. They are chock full of enough stuff to keep people distracted and occupied for lifetimes, and they succeed. Smaller, useful things, so not a total waste of time, but not the real point. Still, they serve the purpose of guiding the younger Seekers, with teaching at the level they grasp, which is no small thing and the very reason for all the "stuff". Kind of magical how all the stuff is actually a mass lesson plan for every level of Seeker, in one. That is your Thelema, The "Craft", the best and the worst about it. It is not the only tradition, though, not even the oldest or even close. It is just one, and better known in the West than some others. As you believe in reincarnation, you should totally resonate with the idea that for some, other trads are what they belong to and have stronger affinities with. 

Of course it has a lot of hocus pocus in it. All the great and real traditions do, but, they also have a thread through that leads to progress and growing awareness and evolution of the mind for an individual. For that, it is worthwhile to keep around. I worked with it for many years before I moved on to a different paradigm, completed there and worked it for a couple decades and ran my own House before I really woke up and shut it down. I finally got it. It was none of it an arrival point, just a way, a means to an end, a section of the journey.

Thanks for clearing all that up.  I had misread the target audience completely and you continue to be polite and informative.  

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Desertrat56
On 1/25/2020 at 8:32 PM, GlitterRose said:

It's like reinventing the wheel and then claiming it has nothing to do with the wagon. Lol.

Yeah every 10 years someone does that.

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Desertrat56
On 1/26/2020 at 8:34 AM, Illuminous Operations said:

Could you be more specific if its not too much trouble to ask?

 

A lot of these concepts are not mainstream, but all of the theology on other religions comes from different sources.  For example the thing about the earth being 6,000 years old is often ignored by most Christians as reality challenges it, but it is embraced by other Christians since it is technically what the bible says.  There are public schools in Texas that teach that the world is 6,000 years old and dinosaur bones are a test of faith for example.

Except for the australian who created that Ark experience theme park and the guy in Glen Rose, Texas who create a dinosaur museum that "proves" dinosaurs lived side by side with humans.  There are a lot of people who get defensive about the cognitive dissonance that is created when they are taught something in school that does not match what their religious teachers say and the common reaction is to dispute anything that is different.  Though there are many who re-examine the religious teachings and question them, attempting to resolve the dissonance.

Lately, though, maybe because of location, I have begun to see the "new age" perspective as more main stream than the religious perspective.

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Desertrat56
23 hours ago, Festina Lente said:

Why oh why can’t we all have the truth of who we are and our reason for being here? 

Because we are herd animals and do not want to be different, even though deep down we all know that we are here for completely different reasons that we are told we are by "authority" figures.

There is no one true answer for all, it is one true answer per person.

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Desertrat56
23 hours ago, Festina Lente said:

I like this idea.  Not a fan of religions in general. 

The Gospel of Figure it out for Yourself  This is a term I coined for a path I did not create which is as old as human history. This is the path of creating gospel by researching multiple religious systems and combining this information into your own tangible personal belief system figuring things out for yourself in terms of religion. This path is self guided but requires acquiring knowledge from others both through direct interaction with religions and scholarly research such as reading books and in modern times the Internet.

I suppose if you need religion or a deity for guidance, or some way to decipher from others which aspects of a deity you choose to use to describe your religious beliefs this is a reasonable statement.  However, it ignores the fact that all of these religions are just humans trying to figure out how they fit in the universe, or decipher why something happens, explanations for the unexplainable decided by humans, some who know it is made up but use it to manipulate others.  None of it can be considered a universal "how it is", it is all individual, based on fears and hopes and guesses.  So whether you decide to follow one set religion or pick and choose from many, it is still only making stuff up to make yourself feel better or give yourself a framework in which to determine whether you are a "good" person or not.  That's all it is, am I ok, am I good, how will I be judged by others, etc.

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Desertrat56
22 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Isn't that pretty much what new age occultism has turned into? 

I honestly think the real practices of magic have long since died and what we are seeing is its corpse.

I thought it was always about money, the cult following is required in order to get the money.

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Desertrat56
58 minutes ago, Illuminous Operations said:

Otherkin - A person who unlike the majority of humans who have spent past lives as animals on this world has spent past lives as a more advanced sentient being, usually on another world, and has come in this life to reincarnate into a human body.  I.E. Angelkin could be Annukites, Dragonkin could have been actual dragons, etc etc.

I think not one person on this planet has reincarnated only as a human on planet earth.  What would be the point if reincarnation is what is going on.  Why do you think we have mythical creatures like dragons, unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, elves, etc.?  Because they do exist somewhere, but not planet earth.  Anyone who fixates on some memory or feeling they have from a past life on another planet or as something other than human is avoiding what ever reason they have chosen to experience being a human on planet earth.  That is my judgemental opinion, however I do understand that maybe bringing these things up, talking about them, exploring the possibilities is a good exercise in remembering that this is a temporary state that we live in and that some things have less meaning than we want to put to them, like being a plieadian or dog.  But if it keeps you stuck there is no use to it at all.

I think @Not A Rockstar made some very good points.  Some of us have already been where you are, we chose different paths, different perspectives maybe, some even came at it from a totally different non-religious angle but we have been there.

 

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XenoFish
2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I thought it was always about money, the cult following is required in order to get the money.

People make money off nonsense. Positive thinking, occultism, law of attraction, etc.

In regards to this topic. I think the whole otherkin thing is just an ego booster and a desire to belong to something. Like a subculture. Larping in real life.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

People make money off nonsense. Positive thinking, occultism, law of attraction, etc.

In regards to this topic. I think the whole otherkin thing is just an ego booster and a desire to belong to something. Like a subculture. Larping in real life.

:lol:  I am so old I had to look up what "larping" is. 

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XenoFish
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

:lol:  I am so old I had to look up what "larping" is. 

Always something new to learn lol

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Not A Rockstar
19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think the whole otherkin thing is just an ego booster and a desire to belong to something

Perhaps. Maybe even probable. 

It was a stage for me, before I had grown enough and learned more and came to see the "differences" I had thought to be from something else were more probably manifestations of aspects of being human that I had not recognized before. For me, I was young and went through a phase where I was very enthralled and new to the concepts of spirit animals, personal totems and animal guides and such. It was not an ego booster, as I assumed always everyone had the same thing going on, just it was new to me and exciting, until I sorted it out.

Now, some claims, time will have to prove if there is any fact to them. Until then, I consider my personal jury out. Not as if I must have an opinion on it right now :) 

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XenoFish
27 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Perhaps. Maybe even probable. 

It was a stage for me, before I had grown enough and learned more and came to see the "differences" I had thought to be from something else were more probably manifestations of aspects of being human that I had not recognized before. For me, I was young and went through a phase where I was very enthralled and new to the concepts of spirit animals, personal totems and animal guides and such. It was not an ego booster, as I assumed always everyone had the same thing going on, just it was new to me and exciting, until I sorted it out.

Now, some claims, time will have to prove if there is any fact to them. Until then, I consider my personal jury out. Not as if I must have an opinion on it right now :) 

I never had such a phase. Didn't have time. Everything was work. 

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Not A Rockstar
24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I never had such a phase. Didn't have time. Everything was work. 

I also was working full-time by the time I was 15. Nobody cares, X man. They did not then, they do not now. 

But, life as it was for me led me to doing a lot of thinking while I was droning away at jobs for the money to hope to get to college or escape the abusiveness I experienced. If nothing else it got me out of the house. When I had to be home I sat up all night writing to express the angst and ideas, slept through class the next day and then went to work again. Wasted years it seems like.

I was reading the other night and read a sentence to the effect that our childhoods were devised to prepare us for the purpose we came here to live now. That annoyed me until I looked back in that view of it and gained a rather colder idea of how things work, but, If true, it explains a lot. If I add in the notion that I actually planned this out as my own Higher Self, I have a side to me I had no idea about and can actually be a rather dispassionate and expedient a hole.

That was kind of fun as mental exercises go, and may well be true.

Or not, and just a fun idea to entertain myself and distract me from the desire to get in the car and drive away and not look back.

This, too, shall pass. 

We are getting older, Xeno. IDK yet if it sucks or not :D 

Thanks for being here. You are good for me.

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XenoFish
Just now, Not A Rockstar said:

I also was working full-time by the time I was 15. Nobody cares, X man. They did not then, they do not now. 

But, life as it was for me led me to doing a lot of thinking while I was droning away at jobs for the money to hope to get to college or escape the abusiveness I experienced. If nothing else it got me out of the house. When I had to be home I sat up all night writing to express the angst and ideas, slept through class the next day and then went to work again. Wasted years it seems like.

I was reading the other night and read a sentence to the effect that our childhoods were devised to prepare us for the purpose we came here to live now. That annoyed me until I looked back in that view of it and gained a rather colder idea of how things work, but, If true, it explains a lot. If I add in the notion that I actually planned this out as my own Higher Self, I have a side to me I had no idea about and can actually be a rather dispassionate and expedient a hole.

That was kind of fun as mental exercises go, and may well be true.

Or not, and just a fun idea to entertain myself and distract me from the desire to get in the car and drive away and not look back.

This, too, shall pass. 

We are getting older, Xeno. IDK yet if it sucks or not :D 

Thanks for being here. You are good for me.

Apparently the purpose of my life is to work. Like you I got my first job at 15, between school and work I didn't get to be a normal teenager. Even when I got out of high school I found myself a father way to early and working for myself. The only escapism I had was video games and occultism. About the only thing this created within me is regret and bitterness at life. I've spent way too many nights thinking about the life I wanted and what I had. Thing is I didn't want much, only wanted to disappear. The lie of "You can be anything" was a vile taste in my mouth. I suppose I slowly grew into this disposition I have now. One of regret and cynicism. I am honestly disappointed in my life. Everything I've done is because I had to or it was the right thing to do. I did my job as a son, as a father, and husband. But there is nothing of my own that I can say I did this for myself. No wonder I'm depressed.

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Not A Rockstar
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Everything I've done is because I had to or it was the right thing to do. I did my job as a son, as a father, and husband. But there is nothing of my own that I can say I did this for myself. No wonder I'm depressed.

Man, reviewing exactly this has been what I am working on the past year or so, finally at a space where I can see it clearly and let go of the anger and resentments I was holding in towards my Mother especially, now I am her sole caregiver. Worse, I now see I saddled myself with a partner who is very like her and compounded my situation in life. I saddled up because of a kid too early as well. Without that, I never would have saddled at all.

I have made progress in freeing myself from the anger and blame game. I accepted or chose most of it. 

One guy argued with me about his anger and how he forgave nothing and looked forward to karma against those people he blamed and more myopic stuff. I let it go and forgive and keep on doing so as I find more because this IS my choice and I want NO part of it. No revenge, no karmic ties, none of that. This is the one thing I can still decide for myself and do and change today. I can change me.

You said once that when you made some progress in your efforts you chose to not believe your own mind and what you saw. That began your road to skepticism. This always struck me as terribly sad as strong a mind as you have. If we cannot believe our own senses, within reasonable constraints, then we will surely be swept away with the current. Occult or no occult. The world today is hell bent on sweeping us all into group think.

The occult did not fail me, because I was too angry over losing everything else to others and their demands and self indulgences that the one thing I did have of my own - my mind, my thoughts, my wonderings and visions and ideas - this I refused to give up to anyone and I am inherently a rebel. No group think for me. Not ever. In the course of passing through a monstrous heap of woo trash in the 70s and 80s I also developed my critical thinking and self discipline (gee, mainstays of The Craft when actually done right) as I weeded through and found so much to be trash. I came with a very excellent brain and IQ to do exactly that, it turns out. What was good I have kept. Aging has added some small wisdom to turn the lights on in the spirituality room inside. It is an odd place for many but it suits me to the ground after so long. It is who I am now. That room illuminates the rest and guides me how to react and where to go from here.

I am not always right, but, I do always think and speak what *I* know to be true. I worked hard for it. You and I do not always agree but, I credit you as working as hard for yours and it no longer bothers me to be disagreed with. I do know where you come from, I also know that angry pain and sense of disappointment, so I respect you. Those are special wounds and deserve that much.

I do believe in reincarnation and as systems go, sometimes a person may be called in to live out a space which is in support of others and their needs and efforts to grow, I think. It isn't fun, and I am not a Rockstar (ha!) this go round, but, it does bring its own rewards. My Dad lived a life the same as mine has in many almost scary ways. He stayed his course and made a tremendous difference and example for me, which I follow now. He was my one solace and is the finest man I know. Gone 2 years now and I still feel him around, he was so central for me and my very sanity at times when it was really bad with Mom.

I will stay the course, too. Warriors do not quit. Maybe next go round I will cure cancer or discover FTL travel or maybe even live a life knowing genuine love.

Until then it is all decision, to decide to love, to live and to win.

I have decided.

JME.

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Habitat
8 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

. If we cannot believe our own senses, within reasonable constraints, then we will surely be swept away with the current.

Wise words !

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XenoFish

I can't help but think that life is a magical act. Of all the combinations of DNA that might have been, we are the only us that exist. And our lives are built on choices. We have to carry the weight of what we choose to do. In many way I think of magic as just one of many ways to plant seeds in the mind. Right now my life is a tragedy. I don't know what the next 10 year's will make it.

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Desertrat56

@XenoFish & @Not A Rockstar You have both given me something to think about.  Being a woman it might be a little different as I raised my kids on my own, with some help from my family because their dad decided to be absent, not rise to the occasion like you two did.  I also was working at a young age, first taking care of the family from the age of 12 as if I were the mom.  I then worked in the family business from 16 to 18, it was almost a full time job with school being a break in the middle of the day, (when I left home my mother had to quit her job to keep the business running).  Then I joined the army and then had kids to raise.  I have a lot of anger I am working on, anger at my parents, anger at my ex, anger at myself, etc.  I have been working on it for a long time. 

Life is good for me now, though I still have to work to keep the roof, I still have a ways to go to let go of all the anger.  As for the magic, I have always noticed things that have no physical explanation, and I have dabbled in a lot of different things, finding that most training and tools out there are crap, but sometimes there is a kernel of useful information, it just isn't worth the money people want to charge for it.  And it really boils down to training your mind, the tools help, but it is your mind that is the real tool. 

As for identifying wit/as non-human anything, I don't see a problem with it unless you just can't function in society, work, family, other relationships without it getting in the way.

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