The end of the story of the Dyatlov group

[Gorojanin]

On 3/15/2020 at 11:16 AM, moonman said:

Why are you so strapped into nonsense thought patterns? You are stuck in a pattern of not thinking about the situation, and not taking into account the possibilities of the situation. Your thought patterns are BADLY flawed.

The ring on the ski pole does not dictate what is possible. THINK for once.

My thought patterns won 't make a ski pole of normal length and thickness in this fake photo.

On 3/15/2020 at 11:20 AM, Golden Duck said:

Not really clear at all.  The hand loop looks different from the others - it could be against the leg.

This is the end of a ski pole that stands. The photographer is slightly above this end. The end of the stick that is lying looks different.

 

On 3/15/2020 at 11:20 AM, Golden Duck said:

Why would someone photoshop a pole?  What is it meant to prove?

This meant that the photographer is an idiot.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Gorojanin

[ChrLzs]

3 hours ago, Gorojanin said:

My thought patterns

There's your problem.

 

3 hours ago, Gorojanin said:

This meant that the photographer is an idiot.

No, the person wasting our time is.

[Gorojanin]

Here is an interesting paper not from the case.
Thibault-Brignol's Note.

"Hello, Lida! Greetings from a room filled with sacks, tents and all sorts of food.
We are going on a campaign for Chistorp.
I listened to your letter with great attention - you describe the situation quite correctly.
It's good. That's it. Greetings from our wandering brethren.
23 I 59 K. Thibault".

 

Everything is clean except the tents.
There were some double tents, four-person tents, and what and how many-we do not know.
And there was no unique, consisting of two parts of the Dyatlov`s tent for ten persons.It appeared only in the diaries completed before the murder after 26.01.1959, and on the pass where it was brought by the props.

Then Yudin turns like a snake, avoiding the question "who carried the tent?"And leaves, scoundrel))
This tent with a chimney and a stove requires a single porter, which we do not see in any photo montage. All with their backpacks.
And two pictures with a tent in General from the situation from the shooting of Sogrin; he actually had this tent.

And this lack of a tent in all documents, as in the memoirs of "sole survivor", along with the fake photos, sends the entire legend down the chimney.

 

 

[Gorojanin]

Added another fake photo to the main message .

This is another mistake with the backpack. Allegedly photo 01.02.1959. The master put a 12-seat tent on Dyatlov's backpack. The total weight of the load should be more than the Dyatlov's weight , but the Dyatlov stands straight, without support.

When the master saw the error, he tried to correct it by rotating the photo on the axis. In the original, the photo montage looks like this. But it didn't help much.

 

[moonman]

Like every other picture, you know literally NOTHING about the context and circumstances involved in the picture.

Take a break from this nonsense, the world has far bigger and better things to worry about right now.

Edited May 6, 2020 by moonman

[Gorojanin]

2 hours ago, moonman said:

Like every other picture, you know literally NOTHING about the context and circumstances involved in the picture.

Take a break from this nonsense, the world has far bigger and better things to worry about right now.

As in any of your tirades, I don't see a single fact to refute my facts. 

Why do you get into this nonsense when there are so many serious problems in the world?

[moonman]

34 minutes ago, Gorojanin said:

As in any of your tirades, I don't see a single fact to refute my facts.

Your "facts" aren't facts, they are ASSUMPTIONS. You assume things about every picture you post. You assume the snow is x deep, you assume the pack weighs y, you assume the people are currently doing moving with z motion.

You can't refute an assumption, all you can do is call it out - which myself and others have done again and again.

Edited May 6, 2020 by moonman

[ChrLzs]

So, to summarise this thread....

BUNK, from start to finish.

Unsupported bunk and silly claims.

[MrBene]

So i've read this from page 1 to this one.

-OP claims that the "Dyatlov incident" was staged by the NWO in order to create media sensationalism and alter people psychologic states.
-OP is not fluent english speaker (he's russian) so it is quite hard to understand.
-OP clearly believes in conspirational theories. He also quotes in his article a bunch of other articles of incidents that occured and are covered by Russian media, mostly related with flight incidents where he (or source blog claims) bodies were planted or removed.  
-To back up his claims he says that all the photographic and handwritten (?) documents were clearly montages by assuming several things that make no sense. I do agree that photo montages are older than Dyatlov Incident but many of the allegued discrepancies are just assumptions without any further data. I mean, I love to discover photo montages and I am all for that but honestly some of the photos and its explanations makes no sense. Example: A hand was copied and pasted from other photos to complete a whole hand in other photo. Why? 

This one strikes home. My grandfather (RIP 2015) used to be in this sort of thing. He claimed that he was being pursued by the government. He had tons of photos, newspaper articles and many other things that according to him were coded messages and these coded messages were posted there to "organize" crime against people that were against the government. He could explain every bit of it with such passion. Sadly, he was suffering from dementia. I'm not saying OP is, but this sort of essay with tons of pictures and work behind to just prove nothing it clearly reminds me of him. He wrote 3 books about it. Books. It were never published. Thousands and thousands of words, photos, very intrincate and forced explanations etc. I don't know OP. I wish you weren't so vague on your responses.  

[Alchopwn]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:51 PM, Gorojanin said:

The second skier without sticks. His hands are down, but he stands in the speaker, bent like everyone else, and takes a step. It is physically impossible to go skiing without support on ski poles, bent over with a backpack

I take issue with this assumption.  Much depends on the weight of the pack and the experience of the skier, as well as the state of the terrain.  

Consider... is the pack light?  Is the skier experienced and showing off for a Young Pioneer propaganda photo by not using poles like an "iron man"?  Is the snow sufficiently powdery that it is providing plenty of friction and the ground is level, so ski poles are not so necessary?  It is also worth pointing out that you don't absolutely need 2 ski poles.  In Scandinavia it was the practice for centuries to use only a single staff, not ski stocks at all, and they crossed mountains on skis regularly.

You are presenting this as a lay down fact when it is anything but.

[Gorojanin]

22 hours ago, moonman said:

Your "facts" aren't facts, they are ASSUMPTIONS. You assume things about every picture you post. You assume the snow is x deep, you assume the pack weighs y, you assume the people are currently doing moving with z motion.

You can't refute an assumption, all you can do is call it out - which myself and others have done again and again.

 

20 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

So, to summarise this thread....

BUNK, from start to finish.

Unsupported bunk and silly claims.

 

9 hours ago, MrBene said:

So i've read this from page 1 to this one.

-OP claims that the "Dyatlov incident" was staged by the NWO in order to create media sensationalism and alter people psychologic states.
-OP is not fluent english speaker (he's russian) so it is quite hard to understand.
-OP clearly believes in conspirational theories. He also quotes in his article a bunch of other articles of incidents that occured and are covered by Russian media, mostly related with flight incidents where he (or source blog claims) bodies were planted or removed.  
-To back up his claims he says that all the photographic and handwritten (?) documents were clearly montages by assuming several things that make no sense. I do agree that photo montages are older than Dyatlov Incident but many of the allegued discrepancies are just assumptions without any further data. I mean, I love to discover photo montages and I am all for that but honestly some of the photos and its explanations makes no sense. Example: A hand was copied and pasted from other photos to complete a whole hand in other photo. Why? 

This one strikes home. My grandfather (RIP 2015) used to be in this sort of thing. He claimed that he was being pursued by the government. He had tons of photos, newspaper articles and many other things that according to him were coded messages and these coded messages were posted there to "organize" crime against people that were against the government. He could explain every bit of it with such passion. Sadly, he was suffering from dementia. I'm not saying OP is, but this sort of essay with tons of pictures and work behind to just prove nothing it clearly reminds me of him. He wrote 3 books about it. Books. It were never published. Thousands and thousands of words, photos, very intrincate and forced explanations etc. I don't know OP. I wish you weren't so vague on your responses.  

 

8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I take issue with this assumption.  Much depends on the weight of the pack and the experience of the skier, as well as the state of the terrain.  

Consider... is the pack light?  Is the skier experienced and showing off for a Young Pioneer propaganda photo by not using poles like an "iron man"?  Is the snow sufficiently powdery that it is providing plenty of friction and the ground is level, so ski poles are not so necessary?  It is also worth pointing out that you don't absolutely need 2 ski poles.  In Scandinavia it was the practice for centuries to use only a single staff, not ski stocks at all, and they crossed mountains on skis regularly.

You are presenting this as a lay down fact when it is anything but.

To date, there are no other facts other than what I have stated. There is no expert opinion on the authenticity of even one photo of the Dyatlov`s group.  

If you know at least one expert opinion about the authenticity of at least one photo of the Dyatlov group, present this conclusion. Otherwise, all your words are empty words.

[MrBene]

I understand that the authenticity of the pictures from corpses and the procedures with it may be debatable, but a bunch of photos of people in the snow enjoying themselves? Why someone would fake a ski by 2mm? It makes no sense. I understand where are you coming from: "If one photo is fake, everything is fake", in most cases I would agree when evidence is overwhelming but..assumming something's not right because of a guy with his hands on his hips for a fraction of a second while walking with skies. No bro. You need harder evidence, sorry. Show us your best evidence, only one photo, please.  

[Gorojanin]

10 hours ago, MrBene said:

I understand that the authenticity of the pictures from corpses and the procedures with it may be debatable, but a bunch of photos of people in the snow enjoying themselves? Why someone would fake a ski by 2mm? It makes no sense. I understand where are you coming from: "If one photo is fake, everything is fake", in most cases I would agree when evidence is overwhelming but..assumming something's not right because of a guy with his hands on his hips for a fraction of a second while walking with skies. No bro. You need harder evidence, sorry. Show us your best evidence, only one photo, please.  

You haven't refuted a single fake yet.

Your "why" is not proof of the authenticity of the photos.

Start proving the authenticity of at least the last fake photo.

A person can not physically stand straight, straightened, without support with his hands, carrying a backpack and a tent with a total weight of more than the weight of a person.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Gorojanin

[Gorojanin]

Here is Dyatlov is worth with a backpack without tents, and otherwise stand not can. The 12-seat tent doubles the weight behind.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Gorojanin

[Alchopwn]

14 hours ago, Gorojanin said:

To date, there are no other facts other than what I have stated. There is no expert opinion on the authenticity of even one photo of the Dyatlov`s group.  

If you know at least one expert opinion about the authenticity of at least one photo of the Dyatlov group, present this conclusion. Otherwise, all your words are empty words.

Your logical fallacy is called "appeal to authority".

Edited May 8, 2020 by Alchopwn

[MrBene]

2 hours ago, Gorojanin said:

A person can not physically stand straight, straightened, without support with his hands, carrying a backpack and a tent with a total weight of more than the weight of a person.

I think the problem with your claim is that you assume the total weight of the backpack. I mean, something bulky isn't necessarily heavy. 

 Anyway, I'm not here to try to refute your claims, I'm trying to understand why you think these photos were montaged in the first place. From what I understand is that you don't even care about Dyatlov at all, what you're trying to prove to us is that there's a major power on top of government who actually did this. Now, I'm trying to understand why a major power would fake a photo of a guy in a snow storm carrying a backpack. Why? Why is that even important for what happened in Dyatlov? Like, why this "major power" would even bother? 

Lets assume for a second that you are right, that they added the bulky backpack to a photo of a guy without backpack. Why is that even necessary? I mean, the photo without a backback, does it prove the existence of a major power so they had to add it? It makes no sense. Why was important for this "major power" to fake photos of these girls and guys in the mountains? To prove what? 

You're being extremely vague. Let me know if I understood correctly: fake photos prove that the dyatlov group never went to the mountain and the whole thing was only a hoax for news.    

[Gorojanin]

 

4 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Your logical fallacy is called "appeal to authority".

You demand an "appeal to authority". 

I'm trying to tell you that All "authority" run away from the problem of authenticity of photos as from the plague.

3 hours ago, MrBene said:

From what I understand is that you don't even care about Dyatlov at all, what you're trying to prove to us is that there's a major power on top of government who actually did this.

No. The creator is not a government, secret service, or Agency. But all governments, intelligence agencies, agencies, and mass media of the world are obliged to support the creator's performances.

3 hours ago, MrBene said:

I think the problem with your claim is that you assume the total weight of the backpack. I mean, something bulky isn't necessarily heavy.

 

Each group member's backpack has a weight of 30 to 40 kg. It must contain personal equipment ...

plus public equipment...

...plus products.

The weight of an improvised 12-person tent (plus a stove and flues) can be determined based on the weight of a 2-person tent-15 kg, a 4-person tent-23 kg, a 10-person tent - 50 kg.

https://fabrika-pgs.ru/katalog-geologicheskogo-snaryazheniya/geologicheskie-palatki

 

3 hours ago, MrBene said:

Lets assume for a second that you are right, that they added the bulky backpack to a photo of a guy without backpack. Why is that even necessary? I mean, the photo without a backback, does it prove the existence of a major power so they had to add it? It makes no sense. Why was important for this "major power" to fake photos of these girls and guys in the mountains? To prove what?

In fact, Dyatlov's group did not have a 12-person tent, except for the props brought to the pass along with the corpses. Since the whole story is related to a 12-seat tent, it was necessary to make at least one fake photo of a 12-seat tent being carried.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Gorojanin

[Alchopwn]

12 minutes ago, Gorojanin said:

You demand an "appeal to authority". 

Quite the reverse.  I don't "demand" an appeal to authority, I want you to stop hiding behind your so-called authority for which we have no proof.  Please familiarise yourself with the concept: Logical Fallacy: Appeal to authority also known as the argument from authority.  I dispute your authority, as a good skeptic should.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Alchopwn

[Gorojanin]

20 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Quite the reverse.  I don't "demand" an appeal to authority, I want you to stop hiding behind your so-called authority for which we have no proof.  Please familiarise yourself with the concept: Logical Fallacy: Appeal to authority also known as the argument from authority.  I dispute your authority, as a good skeptic should.

How does this cancel out the photo montage? Does not cancel in any way.

[moonman]

So why aren't those book pages are faked too? You don't get to pick and choose which pictures are fake.

Edited May 8, 2020 by moonman

[Gorojanin]

12 minutes ago, moonman said:

So why aren't those book pages are faked too? You don't get to pick and choose which pictures are fake.

If you don't like forged pages, read not forged pages. I don't know them.

[Alchopwn]

On 5/8/2020 at 11:17 PM, Gorojanin said:

How does this cancel out the photo montage? Does not cancel in any way.

I disagree with your analysis.  I strongly doubt the bulk of your assertions about photomontage being employed.

On 5/8/2020 at 4:51 PM, Gorojanin said:

Here is Dyatlov is worth with a backpack without tents, and otherwise stand not can. The 12-seat tent doubles the weight behind.

That is a huge assumption, and an incorrect one.  I don't doubt that the tent weighs quite a lot, but remember that it was comprised of 2 Soviet Infantry tents stitched together, and was full of holes.  This is not the same as a typical larger tent, as would be deployed from Soviet trucks.  Furthermore, It is quite possible to move under considerable weight without use of one's stocks if you are a reasonably proficient skier. I am only a proficient skier, and I have done so on many occasions.  The fact that Dyatlov is clearly depicted with a bulky tent on his back is not the same as it being as heavy as you suggest.

[Golden Duck]

8 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

I disagree with your analysis.  I strongly doubt the bulk of your assertions about photomontage being employed.

That is a huge assumption, and an incorrect one.  I don't doubt that the tent weighs quite a lot, but remember that it was comprised of 2 Soviet Infantry tents stitched together, and was full of holes.  This is not the same as a typical larger tent, as would be deployed from Soviet trucks.  Furthermore, It is quite possible to move under considerable weight without use of one's stocks if you are a reasonably proficient skier. I am only a proficient skier, and I have done so on many occasions.  The fact that Dyatlov is clearly depicted with a bulky tent on his back is not the same as it being as heavy as you suggest.

I can't work it out.  Is this kind of thing impossible?  Why?

[ChrLzs]

2 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I can't work it out.  Is this kind of thing impossible?

Only to the OP.

2 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Why?

Because he has an unshakeable desire to have his silly fantasy accepted - it will make him feel very special, and finally he will get the accolades he has missed out on his entire life.  That'll show'em.

Trouble is, nobody is buying it.  And those who clearly have more of a clue than him, inc. me (coughs modestly) but mostly others, are, very annoyingly, explaining and, just like you did, giving examples showing exactly why he is wrong.  And the OP's response?  Handwave after handwave after ignorant handwave.

Some people listen and learn stuff, and don't have the silly desire to be the only one who knows "Da Truth", even when shown to be wrong.

The OP is not such a person.

[Golden Duck]

3 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Only to the OP.

Because he has an unshakeable desire to have his silly fantasy accepted - it will make him feel very special, and finally he will get the accolades he has missed out on his entire life.  That'll show'em.

Trouble is, nobody is buying it.  And those who clearly have more of a clue than him, inc. me (coughs modestly) but mostly others, are, very annoyingly, explaining and, just like you did, giving examples showing exactly why he is wrong.  And the OP's response?  Handwave after handwave after ignorant handwave.

Some people listen and learn stuff, and don't have the silly desire to be the only one who knows "Da Truth", even when shown to be wrong.

The OP is not such a person.

I'd seen the claim of impossibility but I couldn't see why and he didn't explain it.

I used to attend the gym last century and maybe free weights squats aren't entirely analogous, but 300 lbs on your shoulders make his claims pretty dubious.  It just took a while to find a visual example - the iceage hasn't hit here yet, snow's in short supply.

His claim about how you fit ski poles... easily debunked.  I didn't even bother.