Prof Hawking's speculation of alien contact

[Brian K]

Prof Stephen Hawking said that one shouldn't expect an alien encounter to be a positive experience.  I never did find his rationalization, but monistic / solipsist logic dictates that it's the same psychological basis as the stereotypical [You complete me] soul mate sentiment often applied to intimate relationships.  Failing to discover comfort within oneself in whatever idea of physical space one occupies is not a mindset that one's undissociated self is ultimately going to reinforce since dissociation is the illusion, not the reality.  "Know thyself" is the wisdom, not "... others." 

Wondering what else is out there when Here is all that is isn't logical.  Those "stars" seen in the cosmos are images of light allegedly from stars, not stars.  That it's light and not stars, or planets, is undisputed.  Even the visible sun is said to be light from the idea of 8 minutes ago.  Yes, there are magnified images of the sun from probes, but it's mental imagery regarding a different idea of Here, not anything divided from oneself.  There is literally no distance between The Mind and the image of that light alleged to be the sun.    

One dwelling upon alien contact is apt to experience traumatic and vivid nightmare scenarios and / or hallucinations.  If such a hallucination appears to be shared by a "friend," one could bet dollars to doughnuts that one is finding oneself in a toxic codependent relationship to the detriment of one's emotional health.  It's a simple conclusion rooted in pathological emphasis upon external validation, which is a figurative demon by any sound therapeutic measure. 

[Brian K]

If one isn't content with Here and wants different ideas to be part of it, that is not a passive process of waiting for an otherworldly craft, for instance.  Some may remember the Fragile Frankie Merman character on "Seinfeld" who would go and dig a hole in the woods when things didn't go his way.  That's anxiety, but the act itself does represent a recognizable shift in perception.  In digging the hole, that character is no longer in an experience lacking that hole, so such a one would experience what seems like change, and perhaps in ways that seem unrelated to digging, whether grand or seemingly insignificant.  It's where the proverbial butterfly wings correlate with a hurricane on the other side of the world, but choosing a series of thought processes from a sudden flicker of inspiration is far more likely to bear fruit than those from anxiety linked to dwelling upon memories in the idea of the past.      

[Habitat]

I'm not really digesting this, Brian, is it just me ? 

[Tatetopa]

Just now, Habitat said:

I'm not really digesting this, Brian, is it just me ?

I have not responded because I am still trying.  Thanks, I am not alone.

[Grim Reaper 6]

16 minutes ago, Brian K said:

Prof Stephen Hawking said that one shouldn't expect an alien encounter to be a positive experience.  I never did find his rationalization, but monistic / solipsist logic dictates that it's the same psychological basis as the stereotypical [You complete me] soul mate sentiment often applied to intimate relationships.  Failing to discover comfort within oneself in whatever idea of physical space one occupies is not a mindset that one's undissociated self is ultimately going to reinforce since dissociation is the illusion, not the reality.  "Know thyself" is the wisdom, not "... others." 

Wondering what else is out there when Here is all that is isn't logical.  Those "stars" seen in the cosmos are images of light allegedly from stars, not stars.  That it's light and not stars, or planets, is undisputed.  Even the visible sun is said to be light from the idea of 8 minutes ago.  Yes, there are magnified images of the sun from probes, but it's mental imagery regarding a different idea of Here, not anything divided from oneself.  There is literally no distance between The Mind and the image of that light alleged to be the sun.    

One dwelling upon alien contact is apt to experience traumatic and vivid nightmare scenarios and / or hallucinations.  If such a hallucination appears to be shared by a "friend," one could bet dollars to doughnuts that one is finding oneself in a toxic codependent relationship to the detriment of one's emotional health.  It's a simple conclusion rooted in pathological emphasis upon external validation, which is a figurative demon by any sound therapeutic measure. 

I certainly don't agree with your synopsis of Dr. Hawkings thoughts on this subject. Logically Alliens that are traveling around the Universe are not doing so for their health. It is more than likely that they looking for resources for their home planet, and if that is the case we are just in the way, like the Native Americans were thought to be around 150 years ago. The  possibility that they are a benevolent race whos only purpose is to help less developed races is not likely. Even if that were the case changing our evolutionary progress could also kill us as fast as any weapon.

Think about it if we were to jump ahead 100 or 200 years due to technology we were given, with our current mind set more than likely that technology would be used to develope weapons of Mass Destruction. So either way contact with an advanced race would more than likely destroy us, simply because we are not ready or mature enough to use any advances we are given correctly and for the purpose they intended.

i beleive that this is Dr. Hawking true thoughts on the matter, and I would completely agree with this myself.

Peace

Peace

[Tatetopa]

Upon further digesting, I do not think that this is what Stephen Hawking had in mind  Brian when he made that comment.  I seem to recall his analogy was Europe discovers the New World and what then befell its inhabitants.

[Brian K]

18 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I'm not really digesting this, Brian, is it just me ? 

It's no problem.  Habitat.  If any questions come to mind, just ask.  Some may be answered through other responses.

[Habitat]

If the nasty aliens are within range, and can detect faint radio signals, which we have been pumping out for a hundred years, there is not a lot that can be done, except hope that when they detect I Love Lucy episodes, they will decide to keep out, for the sake of their sanity.

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

It is more than likely that they looking for resources for their home planet, and if that is the case we are just in the way

On this point I am a little dubious.  Most star systems stable enough to evolve life probably have a plethora of resources closer to home, plus the energy from their star to transform it.

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

On this point I am a little dubious.  Most star systems stable enough to evolve life probably have a plethora of resources closer to home, plus the energy from their star to transform it.

It's an awful long way to go looking for spare parts, though I suppose if you have a civilization gradually expanding, it could happen. It all depends on whether interstellar hops are feasible.

[Tatetopa]

Just now, Habitat said:

If the nasty aliens are within range, and can detect faint radio signals, which we have been pumping out for a hundred years, there is not a lot that can be done, except hope that when they detect I Love Lucy episodes, they will decide to keep out, for the sake of their sanity.

Our newer quieter technologists may make us a smaller target and maybe even disappear. The large radio and TV broadcast signals have been replaced by cable and microwave towers.  Our nosiest period only lasted about 50 years.  Still I think the US and Russian DEW line radars were the most powerful emitting sources on earth, maybe they are still broadcasting loudly and indiscriminately. 

I wonder if that is part of the answer to the Fermi paradox.  We don't observe alien radio sources because they are way more efficient with their broadcasting.

[Brian K]

3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I certainly don't agree with your synopsis of Dr. Hawkings thoughts on this subject. Logically Alliens that are traveling around the Universe are not doing so for their health. It is more than likely that they looking for resources for their home planet, and if that is the case we are just in the way, like the Native Americans were thought to be around 150 years ago. The  possibility that they are a benevolent race whos only purpose is to help less developed races is not likely. Even if that were the case changing our evolutionary progress could also kill us as fast as any weapon.

Think about it if we were to jump ahead 100 or 200 years due to technology we were given, with our current mind set more than likely that technology would be used to develope weapons of Mass Destruction. So either way contact with an advanced race would more than likely destroy us, simply because we are not ready or mature enough to use any advances we are given correctly and for the purpose they intended.

i beleive that this is Dr. Hawking true thoughts on the matter, and I would completely agree with this myself.

Peace

Peace

Part of the issue on a psychological level is believing oneself inferior to those who can only be reflections of oneself.  Any experience of ill intent or what seems like evil, whether it's aliens or WMDs, would have to come from within, but being dissatisfied with one's ultimately chosen idea of Here to the point of wanting to be taken away amounts to a pathological repression of gratitude.  It has consequences in the ultimate interest of progressing one's story.

[Grim Reaper 6]

32 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

On this point I am a little dubious.  Most star systems stable enough to evolve life probably have a plethora of resources closer to home, plus the energy from their star to transform it.

There is one thing that is rare in the state we know it in and thst is liquid water. Its thought by many scientists that while there are forms of water throughout the Universe the actual formula that we have H 2O is not a common Chemical makeup so that could be the very resource they may be looking for.

Peace

Edited January 29, 2020 by Manwon Lender

[Brian K]

24 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

On this point I am a little dubious.  Most star systems stable enough to evolve life probably have a plethora of resources closer to home, plus the energy from their star to transform it.

The conclusion of "IO" drives the point home quite well about depletion of resources, especially if factoring the "miracle" of those profiled in the "I Shouldn't Be Alive" documentary series.  They hallucinated their way out of what seemed like certain doom in several 'lost at sea' and 'stranded in the desert' scenarios.  I wouldn't even mention it if I didn't have powerful witness from my own experience.  That's not to say it's powerful to anyone else, or even credible evidence, but to worry about such would be more focus on external validation. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 minutes ago, Brian K said:

Part of the issue on a psychological level is believing oneself inferior to those who can only be reflections of oneself.  Any experience of ill intent or what seems like evil, whether it's aliens or WMDs, would have to come from within, but being dissatisfied with one's ultimately chosen idea of Here to the point of wanting to be taken away amounts to a pathological repression of gratitude.  It has consequences in the ultimate interest of progressing one's story.

A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.

Peace

[Brian K]

40 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Upon further digesting, I do not think that this is what Stephen Hawking had in mind  Brian when he made that comment.  I seem to recall his analogy was Europe discovers the New World and what then befell its inhabitants.

Point taken.  I only knew of his warning, but not the reasoning.

[+and-then]

My head hurts...

[papageorge1]

My thought is that Hawking wasn't very good beyond his area of expertise.

[Rlyeh]

6 hours ago, Brian K said:

I never did find his rationalization

Not really surprising given your own irrational thinking.

 

Quote

but monistic / solipsist logic dictates that it's the same psychological basis as the stereotypical [You complete me] soul mate sentiment often applied to intimate relationships.  Failing to discover comfort within oneself in whatever idea of physical space one occupies is not a mindset that one's undissociated self is ultimately going to reinforce since dissociation is the illusion, not the reality.  "Know thyself" is the wisdom, not "... others." 

A complete non-sequitur.

 

Quote

Wondering what else is out there when Here is all that is isn't logical.  Those "stars" seen in the cosmos are images of light allegedly from stars, not stars.

Everything you see is light.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Rlyeh

[Habitat]

Bring back budding psychic, I say, a sad loss.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

6 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

There is one thing that is rare in the state we know it in and thst is liquid water. Its thought by many scientists that while there are forms of water throughout the Universe the actual formula that we have H 2O is not a common Chemical makeup so that could be the very resource they may be looking for.

Peace

I'm not sure what you mean by water being different than others ? H₂O is by all accounts the second most common molecule in the universe, only molecular hydrogen is more common.

Liquid water is probably not that rare. We think that several moons of Jupiter and Saturn have liquid water under their icy surfaces. Even if liquid water is rare, ice is not, and I assume that a civilisation that have mastered instellar travel have also mastered the technique of melting ice.

7 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

On this point I am a little dubious.  Most star systems stable enough to evolve life probably have a plethora of resources closer to home, plus the energy from their star to transform it.

Indeed. To a spacefaring civilisation the Earth as such have no usefull resources that aren't available elsewhere. The odds are tiny that they are adapted to live in our biosphere, so the Earth is probably not that interesting for colonisation anyway.

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I'm not sure what you mean by water being different than others ? H₂O is by all accounts the second most common molecule in the universe, only molecular hydrogen is more common.

Liquid water is probably not that rare. We think that several moons of Jupiter and Saturn have liquid water under their icy surfaces. Even if liquid water is rare, ice is not, and I assume that a civilisation that have mastered instellar travel have also mastered the technique of melting ice.

Indeed. To a spacefaring civilisation the Earth as such have no usefull resources that aren't available elsewhere. The odds are tiny that they are adapted to live in our biosphere, so the Earth is probably not that interesting for colonisation anyway.

First let me say your right H20 is very common throughout the universe, however, H20 in its liquid state is not common at all. Most water throughout the universe is either present as Vapors or Ice, and Earths H20 being in its liquid state is unique in our Solor System. So far the moons you are speaking of may have liquid H20, but that is only a theory, and my comments about H20 should have been more clear, because I wasn't actually speaking about Water itself but molecules within it.

Deuterium is what makes our water a valuable commodity, Deuterium is one of the oldest Isotopes in the Universe, it was manufactured as part of the Big Bang. However what makes it unique is that unlike Hydrogen and Helium there are no natural processes that continue to replenish it like they do for Hydrogen and Helium, so the amount of Deuterium in the Universe only grows smaller over time. In addition the amount of Deuterium found in natural water is not a constant, it actually varies from water source to water source.

Earth Oceans have have an abundance of Deuterium, which is not common throughout the Universe. Deuterium also known as Hydrogen-2 or by its Atomic name 2H or D also allow it to be called Heavy Hydrogen. The ratio of Deuterium is 1 Atom to every 6423 of Hydrogen, thus Deuterium accounts for 0.02% of all naturally occurring Hydrogen in Earths Oceans. The reason Deuterium is so valuble is because in the near future it can be used as power source / fuel for commercial fusion power stations. The fuel will consist of a 50-50 mixture of Deuterium and Tritium because this mixture fuses at the lowest temperature and the energy yield produced is much larger when compared to any other fusion reactions. 

If the Deuterium found in 50 cups of seawater were used in a D-T reactor the energy produced would equal to 2 tons of burnt coal. In addition the by product of a D-T reactions is Helium which isn't radioactive or toxic so this process doesn't produce any pollution and it doesnt contribute to the Greenhouse effect in our atmosphere. 

Now since we are talking about why would an advanced alien race being interested in Earth Oceans what I stated above should make it clear. While we have only begun to scratch the surface of the usefulness of Deuterium an advanced alien race may be using its applications as fuel source for space travel. In theory Deuterium has so many applications it will most likely take us another hundred years before we fully understand all of it uses.

Peace

 

 

[Brian K]

14 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Not really surprising given your own irrational thinking.

 

A complete non-sequitur.

 

Everything you see is light.

Light is illusion.  Everything I see is thought form.

The opening statement in the context of looking for something outside of oneself does not render it a non sequitur.  Just as one who feels incomplete and seeks a romantic partner wishes to somehow heal what can only be accomplished from within ("You can't love another if you don't love yourself"), one seeking alien contact is often in a state of misanthropy, which is projected self loathing, and/or poor sense of self worth inherent in wanting to meet superior beings.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Brian K

[Habitat]

12 minutes ago, Brian K said:

Light is illusion.  Everything I see is thought form.

The opening statement in the context of looking for something outside of oneself does not render it a non sequitur.  Just as one who feels incomplete and seeks a romantic partner wishes to somehow heal what can only be accomplished from within ("You can't love another if you don't love yourself"), one seeking alien contact is often in a state of misanthropy, which is projected self loathing, and/or poor sense of self worth inherent in wanting to meet superior beings.

Goodness me.

[Grim Reaper 6]

24 minutes ago, Brian K said:

Light is illusion.  Everything I see is thought form.

The opening statement in the context of looking for something outside of oneself does not render it a non sequitur.  Just as one who feels incomplete and seeks a romantic partner wishes to somehow heal what can only be accomplished from within ("You can't love another if you don't love yourself"), one seeking alien contact is often in a state of misanthropy, which is projected self loathing, and/or poor sense of self worth inherent in wanting to meet superior beings.

It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

Peace