Coronavirus cases confirmed in the UK

[TigerBright19]

On 4/26/2020 at 10:07 PM, spud the mackem said:

If it was lawful thousands would do it to save funeral costs which are exorbitant , around £6000 depends on how many cars you have and whether its a burial or cremation .  

They should nationalise funerals.  The public would have peace of mind if the government increased taxes a few pence, so that everyone can have a basic send-off.  Pauper's funerals are paid by the local council and cost an average £1,720.  This happens when the deceased has no money or relatives.  Living relatives who are unable or unwilling to pay for a private funeral for a deceased relative can consent for a pauper's funeral (also known as a public health funeral) and the local council pays the bill, but the final send-off for the deceased is left up to the council and they usually choose the most inexpensive means e.g. basic coffin, no ceremony, unmarked grave etc.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Aaron2017

[spud the mackem]

55 minutes ago, Aaron2017 said:

They should nationalise funerals.  The public would have peace of mind if the government increased taxes a few pence, so that everyone can have a basic send-off.  Pauper's funerals are paid by the local council and cost an average £1,720.  This happens when the deceased has no money or relatives.  Living relatives who are unable or unwilling to pay for a private funeral for a deceased relative can consent for a pauper's funeral (also known as a public health funeral) and the local council pays the bill, but the final send-off for the deceased is left up to the council and they usually choose the most inexpensive means e.g. basic coffin, no ceremony, unmarked grave etc.

 

You will always get people objecting against any Tax rise , as nothing infuriates people more than paying more taxes even for a good cause ,so this won't happen. They would even object if the Gov't put a penny on the N.H.S stamp duty . 

[spud the mackem]

4 hours ago, and then said:

The tradition here in the southeastern U.S. for Christians has always been burial in a casket inside a vault.  The costs have become easily 15-20 thousand dollars and that's IF you already own your little piece of real estate in the cemetery.  When I was a kid, cremation was practically unheard of.  It's gaining a lot of acceptance since it costs less than 2 thousand bucks.  I have friend who lost his wife at Thanksgiving week of 2018.  They had no money and the insurance didn't cover enough to get her buried and he couldn't stand the idea of cremation.  It was terrible what he had to go through to arrange her burial.  If the government is going to demand certain standards for burials and has no provision for the poor to be buried, only burned, then the government damned well ought to pay for the burial for those who cannot pay themselves.  The funeral home he was dealing with held her body for weeks while tried to arrange funding.  They offered to bury her for a reduced rate but they told him there could be no service at the graveside and they wouldn't even promise him he would know the location of her grave.  GHOULS... I'm as free enterprise as they come but in some areas, there has to be at least a little human feeling for the grieving.  

Cremation seems to be the "in" thing now in this Country ,owing to lack of space in cemetaries , and as you say cremations are cheaper ,around $6000 in your money and thats about the cheapest , depending on how long you're in the Crematorium ,the average time is 20/25 minutes and the cost of the Hearse and Casket and how many Cars  for the mourners. If your relative doesn't have insurance things can get really expensive ,my wife's funeral cost $8500 and then you have to pay for the cost of the ashes interment in a Garden of Rest , with a small plot around $1700

[stevewinn]

9 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

You will always get people objecting against any Tax rise , as nothing infuriates people more than paying more taxes even for a good cause ,so this won't happen. They would even object if the Gov't put a penny on the N.H.S stamp duty . 

I object. Now is not the time to make monetary decisions based on emotion. The country is going to be 120% of GDP in debt by years end. We'll all be paying extra tax for decades to come.

We have sacrificed the Economy to save the NHS. the NHS should be able to stand and withstands such events on its own without sacrificing the economy in the process. there are some serious failings highlighted here with the NHS. but whose going to tackle them now with emotion running high. failings from NHS management, procurement, logistics. the Army even had to be brought in to shore the thing up.

 

 

 

 

[RAyMO]

54 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

You will always get people objecting against any Tax rise , as nothing infuriates people more than paying more taxes even for a good cause ,so this won't happen. They would even object if the Gov't put a penny on the N.H.S stamp duty . 

you don't think there will be tax rises? 

I would expect tax rises, austerity back on the agenda (though wrong move), pensions to be reduced in real terms, and one off bonanza taxes on whoever the government can identify.  

When the coronvirus crisis ends there will be more people needing support (unemployment benefit etc) and less people working to provide the funds. 

Income for many businesses that rely on bums on seats so to speak will also be greatly reduced also reducing income from tax. 

Something will have to give and taxation levels will imo be first hit (whether they directly up the rate or less directly by not upping personal allowances etc)

Edited April 30, 2020 by RAyMO

[Eldorado]

 

[acidhead]

1 hour ago, Eldorado said:

 

Piers Morgan is p***ed the death rate isn't double what's being reported 

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, acidhead said:

Piers Morgan is p***ed the death rate isn't double what's being reported 

He's not the only one. Plenty of people out there. 

The media have moved on in the hope no one remembers their outlandish predictions. Now their on about the lockdown again. They'd want it lifting tomorrow so we can have the "second wave" headline. 

[acidhead]

7 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

He's not the only one. Plenty of people out there. 

The media have moved on in the hope no one remembers their outlandish predictions. Now their on about the lockdown again. They'd want it lifting tomorrow so we can have the "second wave" headline. 

Piers freaking out, yet again, minutes ago:

 

[stevewinn]

Piers the same fella who accused British soliders of War crimes. Which turned out to be false. Front page of his paper had a photo to prove it. Turned out it was a mocked up photo done over here. But that didn't stop the Iraqis rioting. And attacking British soldiers. What happens. He didn't even have the decency to resign, they had to Sack him. and he simply walks away. like a turd that won't flush. Horrible person. 

[Eldorado]

 

[TrumanB]

I have a cousin in Brighton. She says that British health system is a disaster and that they are absolutely not capable of handling this situation.

[Eldorado]

 

[skookum]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:48 PM, TrumanB said:

I have a cousin in Brighton. She says that British health system is a disaster and that they are absolutely not capable of handling this situation.

That's is what we were all led to believe.  Private hospitals were commandeered and have never received a single patient.  The emergency Nightingale field hospitals will never even open in some areas and they have announced the winding down of the London Earls Nightingale as no new admissions have been made in over a week.  These were hospitals with a 4,000 bed capacity each that at the peak had 35 patients.  

Our NHS is by no means perfect, in fact far from it.  But its existing capacity was woefully underestimated along with its ability to adapt.  No scenes of patients on camp beds and doctors and nurses breaking down like we were shown happening in Italy and Spain.  Both those countries had a far greater ICU bed per head than the UK.

We are also looking like we will record the second highest death toll in the world.  However there is mounting fury from love ones of the deceased finding death certificates have had the cause of death listed as Covid when the actually died of terminal illnesses they had had for several months.  They did not display any symptoms and at the time of passing consultants gave a totally different cause of death.

[bee]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:48 PM, TrumanB said:

I have a cousin in Brighton. She says that British health system is a disaster and that they are absolutely not capable of handling this situation.

 

If your cousin DIDN'T say things like that in Brighton they would probably be lynched or tarred and feathers or something...[/sarcasm]

Or just generally ostracized and banned from all the local shops and bars... [/sarcasm]

Apologies to 'normal' people in Brighton - who aren't on the Authoritarian Woke Slippy Slope...

What I'm saying is that comments like that made by your cousin are probably political rather than analytical... and while bed capacity in the NHS has gone down over successive governments both Conservative and Labour... because we now have a Conservative Government with Boris Johnson at the helm to implement Brexit primarily... nothing good will be said about anything regarding the running of the country or the NHS... in Brighton.......... [/generalization] [/stereotyping]  

 

 

[bee]

1 hour ago, skookum said:

That's is what we were all led to believe.  Private hospitals were commandeered and have never received a single patient.  The emergency Nightingale field hospitals will never even open in some areas and they have announced the winding down of the London Earls Nightingale as no new admissions have been made in over a week.  These were hospitals with a 4,000 bed capacity each that at the peak had 35 patients.  

Our NHS is by no means perfect, in fact far from it.  But its existing capacity was woefully underestimated along with its ability to adapt.  No scenes of patients on camp beds and doctors and nurses breaking down like we were shown happening in Italy and Spain.  Both those countries had a far greater ICU bed per head than the UK.

We are also looking like we will record the second highest death toll in the world.  However there is mounting fury from love ones of the deceased finding death certificates have had the cause of death listed as Covid when the actually died of terminal illnesses they had had for several months.  They did not display any symptoms and at the time of passing consultants gave a totally different cause of death.

 

good points.... ie that the huge Nightingale Hospitals aren't being used much and that statistics for deaths are being 'massaged'..

both of which indicates an element of fear~mongering is going on...

When all this about the Coronavirus was ramping up and restrictions were being put in place and the economy virtually being shut down... and it was announced about the plans to build the Nightingale Hospitals and the first one got built in about 10 days.. you had the impression that they would be filled up pretty quickly - but this never happened...

My neighbour was due an urgent operation in the local hospital that was cancelled about 3 times and now has been shunted back again and she said it was because the operating theatres had been converted into Covid 19 areas... and we both agreed that we thought the idea of the Nightingale Hospitals was to get the Covid 19 patients into these specialist places and away from hospitals that needed to get on with their planned work, operations etc... I have a friend who was due to have an operation for a hernia that will relieve problems and extend life because she has terminal bowel cancer - this has been postponed - that's just two examples that I know of personally...

 

   

[bee]

 

On the whole I think the Government has done ok dealing with all this Covid 19 business...

Let's hope the Nightingale Hospitals can be put to good use - in some way - 

Although we have had Lockdown Restrictions they haven't been too draconian (IMO and with some exceptions) and life has gone on - but now comes the real test and that is to get the country and the economy moving again (in stages)... so we don't have economic and cultural collapse..

 

[RAyMO]

1 hour ago, bee said:

On the whole I think the Government has done ok dealing with all this Covid 19 business...

 

B- I'd give

1 hour ago, bee said:

Let's hope the Nightingale Hospitals can be put to good use - in some way - 

Yes they largely weren't needed - mainly  because, 1. as you pointed out, other things the NHS should be doing they stopped doing and people stayed away from A&E, (some should learn from that and adopt a more selective policy when deciding to visit A&E, others unfortunately should have went to A&E). 2. they required staffing which would have primarily been re-directed from the existing hospital infrastructure. But my question Bee is aren't these hospitals temporary builds and can be easily dismantled?

1 hour ago, bee said:

statistics for deaths are being 'massaged'..

 They were no doubt inaccurate, partly deliberate, partly systemic. But for figures being massaged, the announcement of the 100k tests being achieved was poor - a clear example of figures being massaged to satisfy a political goal. Better imo to have a waited and announced the achievement when actual tests had reached 100k than obvious fabrication for for the sake of politics. 

The more interesting stat - that pops up every now and then is the 'excess deaths' figure, this is the one I suspect realist policy makers will look at going forward. 

The political coverage and indeed political activity for the care Home sector was poor. Admittedly it is a vastly different sector with something akin 11000 establishments as opposed to 200 - but it should and could have had more prominence early in government PR and policy. 

1 hour ago, bee said:

and life has gone on

Yes it has, even if clearly (well based on my own observations) the lockdown is being less adhered to daily. But the economy has taken a massive hit - despite A- efforts by the chancellor - there will be job loses, and business failures which will impact on people for a long time. Also during Lockdown, degrees of hardship were evident, much easier to be locked down with a garden for kids than in a townhouse with kids. 

Just to add, I think it will be very difficult for many of our service businesses to remain operational if social distancing remains active after lockdown. One that a I know off nearby (restaurant) estimates a reduction in seats of up to 70% which would not be sustainable.  

Edited May 3, 2020 by RAyMO

[bee]

17 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Just to add, I think it will be very difficult for many of our service businesses to remain operational if social distancing remains active after lockdown. One that a I know off nearby (restaurant) estimates a reduction in seats of up to 70% which would not be sustainable.  

 

I've just had a good idea.....  

The Nightingale Hospitals can be turned into restaurants with HUGE tables and WIDE aisles and MASSIVE kitchens to adhere to the continued social distancing... 

(not really...    I think they should be used as part of the NHS for something and have a recruitment drive for staff to run them... )

 

[bee]

 

I saw something yesterday about a lot of the public being scared about relaxing the Lockdown and think it's too soon...

After having the Stay Home etc mantra drilled into us and being scared half to death... people are wary now..

So the Government are going to have to ease people psychologically into going back to normal (ish)....

Maybe people have enjoyed staying at home and having a long holiday from work and their usual routine... ?

and want it to go on a bit longer..... dunno....

But if we are storing up problems for the near and not so near future economically the Govt has to conduct the next stage very carefully -

 

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, bee said:

 

I saw something yesterday about a lot of the public being scared about relaxing the Lockdown and think it's too soon...

After having the Stay Home etc mantra drilled into us and being scared half to death... people are wary now..

So the Government are going to have to ease people psychologically into going back to normal (ish)....

Maybe people have enjoyed staying at home and having a long holiday from work and their usual routine... ?

and want it to go on a bit longer..... dunno....

But if we are storing up problems for the near and not so near future economically the Govt has to conduct the next stage very carefully -

 

With over 5,000 excess deaths not due to covid. The media have literally scared them to death. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by stevewinn

[acute]

4 hours ago, bee said:

Let's hope the Nightingale Hospitals can be put to good use - in some way - 

During the 1917-19 flu pandemic, 1918 was the worst wave of the virus.

If a safe Covid-19 vaccine can't be found quickly enough, the Nightingale Hospitals may be needed this winter and into 2021, and maybe 2022.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by acute

[+and-then]

17 minutes ago, acute said:

During the 1917-19 flu pandemic, 1918 was the worst wave of the virus.

If a safe Covid-19 vaccine can't be found quickly enough, the Nightingale Hospitals may be needed this winter and into 2021, and maybe 2022.

 

That is certainly a possibility.  Over here we are beginning to reopen by states and it shouldn't take more than a month to see if the doomsayers are accurate about the surge in cases.  If it actually happens, states will react by enforcing stronger restrictions.  If the number of cases are statistically no more than background noise then some people in media are going to look like total fearmongers.

[hetrodoxly]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:48 PM, TrumanB said:

I have a cousin in Brighton. She says that British health system is a disaster and that they are absolutely not capable of handling this situation.

Do you want to be more specific, the death tolls low and there's no news saying the hospitals can't cope, it sounds like 'fake news' 

[TrumanB]

5 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Do you want to be more specific, the death tolls low and there's no news saying the hospitals can't cope, it sounds like 'fake news' 

She says that hospitals don't have capacity to handle all and that they can't find masks anywhere.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1d3lRSkPD-4mwBEibnoyo0CfdPBn3WpSA4CASij-G1GXq1-5Kpmm6KP4w

number of deaths - 28,131. That's a pretty large number. death per million - 414. UK is on the top of this negative stats.

Edited May 3, 2020 by TrumanB