Single-payer healthcare opinion

[K9Buck]

I very much dislike the idea that I may need a medical procedure and a government bureaucrat will decide that I don't need it.  Of course, my insurance company sort of does that now.  Still, I imagine it might be worse with the government.  After all, does the government ever do anything better?  

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sally-pipes-what-id-tell-californias-single-payer-commission

 

[Uncle Sam]

44 minutes ago, K9Buck said:

I very much dislike the idea that I may need a medical procedure and a government bureaucrat will decide that I don't need it.  Of course, my insurance company sort of does that now.  Still, I imagine it might be worse with the government.  After all, does the government ever do anything better?  

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sally-pipes-what-id-tell-californias-single-payer-commission

 

Single Payer Healthcare is basically putting your life in the hands of bureaucrats who think they know what is best for you. Like my argument in the other thread, it will basically give you the poorest quality of healthcare and heavily burden the taxpayers for it.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, K9Buck said:

imagine

There's the key word. 

You have no idea what you are talking about but you imagine it must be bad because someone (*cough* RavenHawk *cough*) once told you it was socialist and that all socialist things must be bad (except the ones the US already had). 

Illogical, ill-thought and ill-informed. 

I gather you're voting for Trump..? 

[+joc]

11 minutes ago, Setton said:

There's the key word. 

You have no idea what you are talking about but you imagine it must be bad because someone (*cough* RavenHawk *cough*) once told you it was socialist and that all socialist things must be bad (except the ones the US already had). 

Illogical, ill-thought and ill-informed. 

I gather you're voting for Trump..? 

The problem with single payer is this...It isn't about health care at all.

The underlying reason for Single Payer is to control the Proletariat.  Consider you or your wife or child needs an MRI...you will be scheduled for it.  But for some strange, mysterious reason...when you get there...you have no appointment.  Or your appointment is rescheduled.  When the population realizes that their health care may be tied to the way they vote...they will vote the right way!  And once you have Single Payer...you are virtually owned by the government Womb to Tomb.

You will never, ever, ever be able to undo it.  Never!  Plus, the government will have taken over control of 18% of the country's GDP.

 

[Setton]

4 hours ago, joc said:

The problem with single payer is this...It isn't about health care at all.

The underlying reason for Single Payer is to control the Proletariat.  Consider you or your wife or child needs an MRI...you will be scheduled for it.  But for some strange, mysterious reason...when you get there...you have no appointment.  Or your appointment is rescheduled.  When the population realizes that their health care may be tied to the way they vote...they will vote the right way!  And once you have Single Payer...you are virtually owned by the government Womb to Tomb.

You will never, ever, ever be able to undo it.  Never!  Plus, the government will have taken over control of 18% of the country's GDP.

Except none of that happens. 

And if it did, you still have the option to go private. 

But great delusion, even by your standards. Have you thought of turning it into a TV series? There must be some channels desperate enough over there. 

[+joc]

Just now, Setton said:

Except none of that happens. 

And if it did, you still have the option to go private. 

But great delusion, even by your standards. Have you thought of turning it into a TV series? There must be some channels desperate enough over there. 

You are so out of touch Setton.  Just making it up as you go along.   smh  But hey that's okay...Have you ever been to the United States?  Just curious.

[Setton]

Just now, joc said:

You are so out of touch Setton.  Just making it up as you go along.   smh  But hey that's okay...

You believe NHS appointments are fiddled by the government to make you vote the right way and I'm out of touch? 

Pure gold. 

Quote

Have you ever been to the United States?  Just curious.

Yes, several times. 

[+joc]

8 minutes ago, Setton said:

You believe NHS appointments are fiddled by the government to make you vote the right way and I'm out of touch? 

Ah....I see your confusion now.  I am not  talking about NHS...nor am I in any way making comparisons to NHS.   I am telling you what Single Payer will become in America if ever enacted.   I trust your Government waaaaaaaaay more than I trust ours.

Edited February 4, 2020 by joc

[Setton]

4 minutes ago, joc said:

Ah....I see your confusion now.  I am not  talking about NHS...nor am I in any way making comparisons to NHS.   I am telling you what Single Payer will become in America if ever enacted.   I trust your Government waaaaaaaaay more than I trust ours.

Then you have much much bigger issues than healthcare. 

Namely that you are completely incapable of actually having a country. 

Glad that we are in agreement that universal healthcare is a good idea in principle. Shame the US apparently incapable of implementing it. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Setton

[+joc]

Just now, Setton said:

Then you have much much bigger issues than healthcare. 

Namely that you are completely incapable of actually having a country. 

Truer than you know I'm afraid.   Things have changed over here so much since 9/11.  War without end...amen.  The NSA has become huge.  You cannot trust the FBI or the CIA ... they are both becoming more like the Soviet KGB...it is a little frightening.

But hey...i filled up my truck this morning ... $1.91 per gallon    (3.78 litre)  So..it's not all bad.

[+joc]

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Glad that we are in agreement that universal healthcare is a good idea in principle. Shame the US apparently incapable of implementing it. 

If it were done the correct way...perhaps.  Here...no...never...we won't have a Republic anymore...we will have a nightmare.

[Setton]

3 minutes ago, joc said:

Truer than you know I'm afraid.   Things have changed over here so much since 9/11.  War without end...amen.  The NSA has become huge.  You cannot trust the FBI or the CIA ... they are both becoming more like the Soviet KGB...it is a little frightening.

So what's your solution? 

Do nothing? 

Vote in an openly corrupt president that brags about his lack of transparency and disregard for the country? 

Seems to me you have two options: vote for the lesser of two evils and gradually move away from this corruption or violence. In which case you'd better have one hell of a plan for what comes next. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Setton

[+joc]

Just now, Setton said:

So what's your solution? 

Do nothing? 

Vote in an openly corrupt president that brags about his lack of transparency and disregard for the country? 

Oh hell no.  The solution is to re-elect Trump NOT vote in Biden...pffft...as if that would ever happen.  The guy doesn't even know how to tie his own shoelaces.

Good old Quid Pro Quo Joe.   Nope don't need anymore corrupted bureaucrats...Four more years of Trump will all but destroy the Russians dreams of ever becoming a Super Power again.  

[Setton]

4 minutes ago, joc said:

Oh hell no.  The solution is to re-elect Trump NOT vote in Biden...pffft...as if that would ever happen.  The guy doesn't even know how to tie his own shoelaces.

Good old Quid Pro Quo Joe.   Nope don't need anymore corrupted bureaucrats...Four more years of Trump will all but destroy the Russians dreams of ever becoming a Super Power again.  

Hmm. Not sure how we got on to Russians. 

Let's backtrack. 

Your solution to the endemic corruption in your country is to elect a president who actively prevents his staff from providing statements in an entirely legal congressional procedure, openly admits to exceeding his remit for electoral gain and is proud to have avoided paying his dues to your country.

Seems like you almost want to be at the end state you set out before... 

[+joc]

Just now, Setton said:

Hmm. Not sure how we got on to Russians. 

Let's backtrack. 

Your solution to the endemic corruption in your country is to elect a president who actively prevents his staff from providing statements in an entirely legal congressional procedure, openly admits to exceeding his remit for electoral gain and is proud to have avoided paying his dues to your country.

Seems like you almost want to be at the end state you set out before... 

You may have visited the United States several times...but I don't really think you understand the mind set of the people.  

It is thus:

1. Leave me the hell alone and let me make as much money as I can...and legally...I will avoid paying more taxes than I have to because to do so isn't a good business practice!

2.  Tax the rich more so they can pay for my free healthcare and my free college tuition and my free everything...damn it everything should be free for the little guy and the rich people should pay for it cause it isn't fair they have that much money and I don't have any!

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Except none of that happens.

You may have been confused by his example.  It is better described as *Rationing*.  And it happens all the time.

 

And if it did, you still have the option to go private. 

Absolutely!  But you are still obligated to pay for the public option.  The privilege of not using Socialized medicine.

 

But great delusion, even by your standards. Have you thought of turning it into a TV series?

You’re delusional alright.  A fellow countrymen of yours, @Crikey, would seem to disagree with you.

 

There must be some channels desperate enough over there. 

Actually, there are.

[RavenHawk]

6 hours ago, Setton said:

You have no idea what you are talking about but you imagine it must be bad because someone (*cough* RavenHawk *cough*) once told you it was socialist and that all socialist things must be bad (except the ones the US already had).

I hope he’s not taking my word for it.  I would guess that he has made his own determination.  He has seen the evidence, the history, and perhaps experienced it?  And it includes in this country too, especially here!

[Setton]

12 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

You may have been confused by his example.  It is better described as *Rationing*.  And it happens all the time.

Except prioritisation decisions (it's not rationing) are not made on the basis of who you voted for. 

[Setton]

13 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

You’re delusional alright.  A fellow countrymen of yours, @Crikey, would seem to disagree with you.

Yes... 

He also thinks Google is an adequate replacement for a doctor so if that's the intellectual company you want to keep... 

[RavenHawk]

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Except prioritisation decisions (it's not rationing) are not made on the basis of who you voted for. 

You can call it anything you like.  Once they have you, it doesn’t matter who you vote for.  They will engage in identity politics and isolate you as a problem child and call it the exception and not the rule.  People will gobble that up.  Let government do what it does best, which is prioritize resources and needs, but that is not good for people or healthcare.

[RavenHawk]

31 minutes ago, Setton said:

Yes... 

He also thinks Google is an adequate replacement for a doctor so if that's the intellectual company you want to keep... 

I wouldn’t use google in that manner, so that kinda blows your statement.  If it works for him, then more power to him.

[Doug1029]

11 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I very much dislike the idea that I may need a medical procedure and a government bureaucrat will decide that I don't need it.  Of course, my insurance company sort of does that now.  Still, I imagine it might be worse with the government.  After all, does the government ever do anything better?  

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sally-pipes-what-id-tell-californias-single-payer-commission

 

Private insurance companies already do that.  But at least, they are embarrassed to admit that the people who actually make the decisions are not doctors, but high school graduates who do nothing more than look for code numbers and key words on the doctor's forms.  You can use that.  If they reject a claim, ask for the names and qualifications of the people who made the decision.  That usually gets them to pay up.  At least it works for me.

I don't know if you can embarrass the govt.

Doug

[Gromdor]

  The amusing thing is that people think that countries with single payer systems don't have private insurance.  I know for a fact that you can purchase private insurance if you want in places like England.  Most just choose not to because they have NHS.

  My idea of a single payer system is a bare bones system to take care of the basic needs anyways.  You want some special medical procedure?  Then get private insurance or pay out of pocket.

[Uncle Sam]

15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

  The amusing thing is that people think that countries with single payer systems don't have private insurance.  I know for a fact that you can purchase private insurance if you want in places like England.  Most just choose not to because they have NHS.

  My idea of a single payer system is a bare bones system to take care of the basic needs anyways.  You want some special medical procedure?  Then get private insurance or pay out of pocket.

Bare bones healthcare coverage, that could work if the taxes are not dramatically increased. Many citizens of this nation are barely making ends meet and the lower middle class is barely making enough to be considered middle class, raising taxes could be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back. This is only taking into consideration the citizens of this nation, it isn't taking into consideration the illegal immigrants who burden the taxpayers with the cost of their medical bills. They already cost the American taxpayers $18.5 billion dollars in healthcare yearly. But the thing is, Democrats are wanting to give full healthcare coverage in their Universal Healthcare package and include illegal immigrants who cross the border while making it illegal for private healthcare to exist, this would dramatically increase the taxes which would kill the lower middle class and punish the bottom class if they are forced to pay like obama wanted. The only classes that would more likely survive this would be the upper middle class and the rich, ironically most of the people who is advocating this is the same classes that will be least affected by this change. Ignorance is a blessing for them and a burden for everyone else when they are handed the reigns to control any aspect of this nation.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Uncle Sam

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Bare bones healthcare coverage, that could work if the taxes are not dramatically increased. Many citizens of this nation are barely making ends meet and the middle class is barely making enough to be considered middle class, raising taxes could be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back. This is only taking into consideration the citizens of this nation, it isn't taking into consideration the illegal immigrants who burden the taxpayers with the cost of their medical bills. They already cost the American taxpayers $18.5 billion dollars in healthcare yearly. But the thing is, Democrats are wanting to give full healthcare coverage in their Universal Healthcare package and include illegal immigrants who cross the border while making it illegal for private healthcare to exist, this would dramatically increase the taxes which would kill the middle class and punish the lower class if they are forced to pay like obama wanted.

Many Trump supporters on this forum regularly point out that illegals and poor people get healthcare now and aren't turned away.  Who do suppose it is that is currently paying for them?

I'd be fine with a $1000/a month tax increase and socialized medicine.  That would be a wash for me with what I currently pay.

Who said they were going to make private healthcare illegal?  How would you even make it illegal?  (Sorry you can't pay that man's medical bills with your pooled money, it's illegal.)