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K9Buck

Single-payer healthcare opinion

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aztek

absolutely, ussr had 15 republics. all of them were socialist.  but tell me more about it, lol

 

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Gromdor

How about China?  Do you think it is communist or state capitalist? 

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aztek
Just now, Gromdor said:

How about China?  Do you think it is communist or state capitalist? 

don't care about china. 

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Gromdor
Just now, aztek said:

absolutely, ussr had 15 republics. all of them were socialist.  but tell me more about it, lol

 

Republic: a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

Did the people in the former USSR hold the power?  The answer is pretty obvious.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, aztek said:

don't care about china. 

Well, I wish I could ignore data that doesn't suit my world view either.  It would explain why you hardly ever post links to back your claims.

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aztek
3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Well, I wish I could ignore data that doesn't suit my world view either.  It would explain why you hardly ever post links to back your claims.

because what i post is a common knowledge,  anyone  who can add 2 and 2, sees it,  it can be easily confirmed by quick search too. but i guess it is not you. 

if you like socialism why don't you move into such country,  what keeps you here?

Edited by aztek

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, aztek said:

 

  I could post college students with pro-Bernie Sanders videos.  You rely too much on generated you tube videos targeting a narrow audience.  You really think the current Venezuela is socialist?  Why is it that we are supporting a Democratic Socialist for it's president and decrying it's current leadership as an Authoritarian regime?

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aztek
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

  I could post college students with pro-Bernie Sanders videos. 

exactly, all you can post are brainwashed pro-Bernie Sanders student videos, not experience of those that lived in that system. now who has more credabulity?

Edited by aztek

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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, aztek said:

because what i post is a common knowledge,  anyone  who can add 2 and 2, sees it,  it can be easily confirmed by quick search too. but i guess it is not you. 

if you like socialism why don't you move into such country,  what keeps you here?

Because I am a capitalist?   I know the true difference between socialism and capitalism.  I also know that things aren't white and black- that taking the best of different systems in moderation works best?

Single payer isn't any more socialist than our current system of pooling money together in a large group and calling it "insurance".

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aztek
Just now, Gromdor said:

Because I am a capitalist?   

Single payer isn't any more socialist than our current system of pooling money together in a large group and calling it "insurance".

lol, are you? 

no, it is just plain disaster,

 

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Gromdor

Well, to lay your mind to rest, I have no plans to move to Sweden any time soon.  In fact, I think I might look at how badly all the companies that I have part ownership in fared today.  (I'm checking my stocks).  I guess the Dow fell the most it ever has in it's history. 

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aztek
4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Well, to lay your mind to rest, I have no plans to move to Sweden any time soon.  In fact, I think I might look at how badly all the companies that I have part ownership in fared today.  (I'm checking my stocks).  I guess the Dow fell the most it ever has in it's history. 

that would be nothing if socialist bernie taxes the crap out of your earnings first, and later nationalises all stocks,    you'll run to sweden on a first plane.  but fortunately it'll never happen. you can sleep easy.  stocks will go back up, once coronavirus thing is sorted out, have a corona extra , and  think positive

Edited by aztek

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DieChecker
17 hours ago, toast said:

Do you think to avoid a possible loss of jobs, if there is any which I doubt, is a stronger argument than to have good medical care for all and to avoid people going bankrupt or dont go for treatment at all because there is an individual money issue? How much purchasing power get lost in the US because people have to pay for treatment? I repeat myself, but a lot of countries do have very good medical care systems (Germany, UK, Denmark and others) which are designed well and work very effective, why the hell the US isnt able to have the same or a similar system still running? What is the ****ing problem over there? Lobbyism? Freedom of whatever? I dont know ...

If you read what I exactly posted, i wasnt saying universal insurance sucks. I said who's taking ownership of the people who's jobs are on the line? Will Sanders do it, or let them hang?

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DieChecker
16 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Wait. So you are saying that single payer will streamline our system and get rid of half a million people that are a needless cost on it? 

I sippose thats away to look at it. And who will pay that unemployment? A half million people for about a quarter year. Probably about 15 to 20 billion dollars. Actually would be a lot less, but going/estimating high is usually a better way to get something fixed before it's a problem.

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DieChecker
15 hours ago, Setton said:

 

If course someone's going to pay for it - taxpayers. Each according to what they can afford. The rich will pay most, the poor will pay least. 

And for the vast majority of people, it will be cheaper than paying their current insurance premiums. 

Very Possibly. At least I hope so. I'd hate to see small businesses going under, and corporations not paying a share like they do now.

It probably should be a flat tax, IMHO. On income. If you make taxable income... you pay into it. Like with workers comp, but a much larger percentage.

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DieChecker
14 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

The insurance industry will quickly absorb them.  Instead of healthcare they will be working on auto insurance.

My own healthcare adjusters are high school grads who look over doctor's reports for code numbers.  They have no knowledge of medicine.  They might have to resort to flipping hamburgers.  But this hypothetical labor shortage the right wing says we have should make it easy for them to get jobs.

Doug

You're sounding like a real conservative there. :lol: "Those people will find jobs, let's save some money."

I'm jusI'saying.... its top news when 20,000 people loose their jobs when some manufacturer closes the doors. How much more important is it for 500,000 jobs.

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aztek

as far as those jobs, i would not worry,  govt would need to hire much more to run this system, these people already have experience. what private sector does with 10 people, gvmnt needs 30 to do the same thing.  but they would have to be paid from federal budget,  unlike today, they are paid by insurance companies, who also pay tax.  so we'd have less tax revenue, but would need to spend a lot more,

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DieChecker
4 minutes ago, aztek said:

as far as those jobs, i would not worry,  govt would need to hire much more to run this system, these people already have experience. what private sector does with 10 people, gvmnt needs 30 to do the same thing.  but they would have to be paid from federal budget,  unlike today, they are paid by insurance companies, who also pay tax.  so we'd have less tax revenue, but would need to spend a lot more,

I wonder what percentage of the "Rich" are supported off Insurance Corporations, or the stocks there of? Will nationalizing insurance kill the income of a big percentage of those who are supposed to pay for it?

Didnt someone say it was the largest industry in the USA. Thus also perhaps the support of much of the rich?

Hummmm??

Edited by DieChecker

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aztek
2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I wonder what percentage of the "Rich" are supported off Insurance Corporations, or the stocks there of? Will nationalizing insurance kill the income of a big percentage of those who are supposed to pay for it?

Didnt someone say it was the largest industry in the USA. Thus also perhaps the support of much of the rich?

Hummmm??

good point, i'm sure a lot invest in insurance comp,  so no tax revenue from dividends, huge money makers disappear from stock exchange,  that would definitely affect not just us, but global market

it is like pulling old  tree roots from the ground, at first it looks like there isn't much there, you start pulling, and it just keeps going, than it splits, then you realize it is under your entire property, you tie it to a tractor, pull hard, and earth under your shed, garage, and a guest house collapses.  then you go, "o sht, i did not expect that"

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Setton
1 hour ago, aztek said:

good point, i'm sure a lot invest in insurance comp,  so no tax revenue from dividends, huge money makers disappear from stock exchange,  that would definitely affect not just us, but global market

And yet, in the real world... 

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Doug1029

We passed 83,700 Covid19 hospital admissions yesterday.  We will probably see 90,000 by Saturday night,  The predicted 100,000 cases will be reached on Tuesday or Wednesday.  Deaths now exceed 2800.  About 36,000 have had the disease and recovered.

The disease is now out of containment in Iran, Italy, Japan, South Korea and China, maybe others - I'm not altogether up to date.  It is now in 53 countries, and has reached subsaharan Africa (Nigeria).  Mexico has reported its first case.

Status in the US is uncertain.  "Community" infections have occurred in Oklahoma City and Davis, California.  Public health is trying to find all cases and get them quarantined so as to get them back in containment.

Our President is figjhting Covid19 with bombasts and by re-shuffling the incompetent sycophants he put in charge of it.  His "expert" from Illinois was appointed because he "successfully" fought AIDS there.  He did it by praying and increasing the number of infections by 90%.  People will die because of Trump's incompetent approach to the pandemic.

Doug

 

Edited by Doug1029

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Doug1029
18 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Republic: a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

Did the people in the former USSR hold the power?  The answer is pretty obvious.

Not quite.  In a republic, some people have the right to vote, while others do not.  In the US, the people select representatives who then vote in our stead.  The process is not democratic (Democratic Party's superdelegates are not elected.).  And if you do not have a residence, you cannot vote.

The USSR's government was made up of a number of Ministries.  The head of each ministry was a member of the Politburo which was democratic.  The difference is that the ministers were selected by a committee within the ministry.  The common people had no say.

The two systems embarrassingly resemble each other.

Doug

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DieChecker
15 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

Status in the US is uncertain.  "Community" infections have occurred in Oklahoma City and Davis, California.  Public health is trying to find all cases and get them quarantined so as to get them back in containment.

Its officially in Oregon, California, and Washington, now. And these are people who were tested days ago, and were contagious days before that. Doubtless they interacted with dozens, or hundreds, of people... who interacted with dozens or hundreds of people each...

I think it's going to get pretty active on the West Coast in the next 7 to 10 days.

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