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K9Buck

Single-payer healthcare opinion

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Uncle Sam

 

7 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Many Trump supporters on this forum regularly point out that illegals and poor people get healthcare now and aren't turned away.  Who do suppose it is that is currently paying for them?

I'd be fine with a $1000/a month tax increase and socialized medicine.  That would be a wash for me with what I currently pay.

Who said they were going to make private healthcare illegal?  How would you even make it illegal?  (Sorry you can't pay that man's medical bills with your pooled money, it's illegal.)

Our current bills are $900 dollars with bare minimum, we do split our bills. The rest of our money goes towards food and emergency funds if we get ill or hurt. Add another 1,000 dollars on top of that and we would face homelessness. My family would have to starve and be homeless so the lower/upper middle class and rich can get nice healthcare for free. As for the illegal immigrants, WE ALL PAY FOR THEM, they do not pay the medical bills that they rake up and the taxpayers has to foot the bill. And yes they wanted to make it illegal for private healthcare because in their mind, the private healthcare business rip off the citizens of this nation. That is what the Healthcare for All for the current democrats entall for the nation.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Uncle Sam said:

Our current bills are $900 dollars with bare minimum, we do split our bills. The rest of our money goes towards food and emergency funds if we get ill or hurt. Add another 1,000 dollars on top of that and we would face homelessness. My family would have to starve and be homeless so the upper middle class and rich can get nice healthcare for free. 

Not to be mean, but it doesn't seem like you are contributing any more than what the illegals do to the system then.  I currently pay $1000/month just for insurance.  If that's more than what your total bills are then what are you going to do in our current system?  It's just going to get more expensive, with higher deductibles and premiums.  Trump is already talking about cutting Medicaid/Medicare and Social Security too.

Medical bankruptcy?  GoFundMe?

A friend of mine got his arm ripped off about a year or so ago.  They put it back on, but he isn't going to go back to work there.  He had insurance, two rental properties, and some operating cash for the rental properties.  He's broke now and is trying to sell his current house and a rental property.  I'm guessing you don't have that much to cover the expenses if you had a similar medical emergency.  But even with all he had, it wiped him out.

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Uncle Sam
17 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Not to be mean, but it doesn't seem like you are contributing any more than what the illegals do to the system then.  I currently pay $1000/month just for insurance.  If that's more than what your total bills are then what are you going to do in our current system?  It's just going to get more expensive, with higher deductibles and premiums.  Trump is already talking about cutting Medicaid/Medicare and Social Security too.

Medical bankruptcy?  GoFundMe?

A friend of mine got his arm ripped off about a year or so ago.  They put it back on, but he isn't going to go back to work there.  He had insurance, two rental properties, and some operating cash for the rental properties.  He's broke now and is trying to sell his current house and a rental property.  I'm guessing you don't have that much to cover the expenses if you had a similar medical emergency.  But even with all he had, it wiped him out.

I am disabled and my mother is elderly, on Social Security Income because we are unable to work. We have to get the bare minimum to even be able to pay the bills and still have food to eat or money left over incase of a emergency. Taxes is taken out of the Social Security checks you know, so basically the taxing a service that requires taxpayers money to fund. So yes, I do contribute to healthcare that I do not qualify for, we have Clinton Administration to thank for that. Sadly this isn't going to change anytime soon.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

I am disabled and my mother is elderly, on Social Security Income because we are unable to work. We have to get the bare minimum to even be able to pay the bills. Taxes is taken out of the Social Security checks you know, so basically the taxing a service that requires taxpayers money to fund. So yes, I do contribute to healthcare that I do not qualify for. We have Clinton Administration to thank for that.

So you get government paid Medicaid? 

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Uncle Sam
Just now, Gromdor said:

So you get government paid Medicaid? 

No I do not get government paid medicaid. My mother does, but I do not. Most of the money in social security income is being funneled out to pay for other social services or democrat's pet projects.

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Gromdor
Just now, Uncle Sam said:

No I do not get government paid medicaid. My mother does, but I do not.

It's kinda boggling my mind.  What makes you think a Democrat would ever take away your Social Security to give you free healthcare?  You are like the poster child of why they want to create free healthcare.

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Uncle Sam
5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's kinda boggling my mind.  What makes you think a Democrat would ever take away your Social Security to give you free healthcare?  You are like the poster child of why they want to create free healthcare.

Since Social Security Income is being taxed and put into the pool of taxpayer's money, so Democrats want to pull from that pool of money to pay for single payer healthcare for others who don't contribute at all.

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Gromdor
Just now, Uncle Sam said:

Since Social Security Income is being taxed and put into the pool of taxpayer's money and Democrats want to pull from that pool of money to pay for healthcare for others.

Who told you that?  (You know we just had a major tax reform law passed and if the Republicans wanted to get rid of it they would have.)

The Social Security website says that they started taxing it under Reagan:https://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths2.html

Clinton did raise it in '93.

 

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Uncle Sam
1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Who told you that?  (You know we just had a major tax reform law passed and if the Republicans wanted to get rid of it they would have.)

The Social Security website says that they started taxing it under Reagan:https://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths2.html

Clinton did raise it in '93.

 

Either way, I do not care for Clinton or Reagan, they really screwed the pooch for a lot of citizens who are incapable of working.

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DieChecker
17 hours ago, Setton said:

There's the key word. 

You have no idea what you are talking about but you imagine it must be bad because someone (*cough* RavenHawk *cough*) once told you it was socialist and that all socialist things must be bad (except the ones the US already had). 

Illogical, ill-thought and ill-informed. 

I gather you're voting for Trump..? 

Just look at the Iowa caucus voting. These are the people who want to run our healthcare. NOT people who earn a ton, and want to continue to do so, and are motivated. But idiots who fantasize about control and "fairness".

If I could be convinced our Federal Government could run it well, I'd support it. But, I've seen very little evidence anything run at the Federal level is run well.

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DieChecker
12 hours ago, Setton said:

Except none of that happens. 

And if it did, you still have the option to go private. 

Except Bernie Sanders, who's leading in the early states, who's plan calls for eliminating all private insurance. Warren also said she believe most private insurance must be banned.

Bernie says he'll use Executive Orders to force it to happen on Day One.

So.... No. Private insurance is looking like not an option with the current single payer leadership.

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DieChecker
12 hours ago, Setton said:

Your solution to the endemic corruption in your country is to elect a president who actively prevents his staff from providing statements in an entirely legal congressional procedure,

Actually, the Supreme Court, during the Nixon investigations, determined that all requests by the House of the Executive must go through the Judiciary. THAT... was NOT done in this case, by Nadler, Schiff, or Pelosi. They just typed up their own requests/subpoenas, regardless of precedent, and said it was legal.

The House actually did open several court cases to follow the established procedures. But quit and had their vote before a single case was decided.

So... no.... The Legal Procedure was not followed. 

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Either way, I do not care for Clinton or Reagan, they really screwed the pooch for a lot of citizens who are incapable of working

Indeed that is true.  My confusion comes with your support of Republicans who would like to get rid of Social Security entirely.

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Uncle Sam
10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Indeed that is true.  My confusion comes with your support of Republicans who would like to get rid of Social Security entirely.

Um... I didn't respond to that because that isn't even true. Even the leftist fact checking website claims this is false. Republicans do not want to get rid of Social Security Income or Cut it.

Snopes Fact Check: Republicans Cut or Get Rid of Social Security Income

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Tatetopa
2 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Um... I didn't respond to that because that isn't even true. Even the leftist fact checking website claims this is false. Republicans do not want to get rid of Social Security Income or Cut it.

 

Well gee I hope you are right.  I wasn't thinking of Trump so much as Paul Ryan when  the tax cut passed.  He said we would have to cut entitlements to balance the budget.  Don't many Republicans feel this way?.  I sure get the idea that RavenHawk does.  But thanks I will check it out.  Don'rt want to die stupid.

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Uncle Sam
1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

Well gee I hope you are right.  I wasn't thinking of Trump so much as Paul Ryan when  the tax cut passed.  He said we would have to cut entitlements to balance the budget.  Don't many Republicans feel this way?.  I sure get the idea that RavenHawk does.  But thanks I will check it out.  Don'rt want to die stupid.

Only a tiny fractions of Republicans want to cut social security benefits and they have no sway in the party's direction.

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Gummug
18 hours ago, joc said:

The problem with single payer is this...It isn't about health care at all.

The underlying reason for Single Payer is to control the Proletariat.  Consider you or your wife or child needs an MRI...you will be scheduled for it.  But for some strange, mysterious reason...when you get there...you have no appointment.  Or your appointment is rescheduled.  When the population realizes that their health care may be tied to the way they vote...they will vote the right way!  And once you have Single Payer...you are virtually owned by the government Womb to Tomb.

You will never, ever, ever be able to undo it.  Never!  Plus, the government will have taken over control of 18% of the country's GDP.

 

I have been reading "New Deal or Raw Deal" by Burton Folsom, and the same thing happened under the WPA...you often  (always?) had to vote Democratic to get work.  Also sometimes had to pay a percentage,  2% or so,  to the D party. 

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Gromdor
20 hours ago, Uncle Sam said:

Um... I didn't respond to that because that isn't even true. Even the leftist fact checking website claims this is false. Republicans do not want to get rid of Social Security Income or Cut it.

Snopes Fact Check: Republicans Cut or Get Rid of Social Security Income

That Snopes article is 4 years out of date.  Trump has recently been talking about cutting Social Security and more specific to you- Social Security Disability: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-disability-benefits_n_5e1e3301c5b650c621e71bbc

 

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joc
On 2/4/2020 at 11:53 AM, Setton said:
On 2/4/2020 at 11:46 AM, joc said:

Oh hell no.  The solution is to re-elect Trump NOT vote in Biden...pffft...as if that would ever happen.  The guy doesn't even know how to tie his own shoelaces.

Good old Quid Pro Quo Joe.   Nope don't need anymore corrupted bureaucrats...Four more years of Trump will all but destroy the Russians dreams of ever becoming a Super Power again.  

Hmm. Not sure how we got on to Russians. 

Let's backtrack. 

Let's don't backtrack...let's stick with the Russians for a moment shall we?  We grew up in different countries and therefore have differing experiences in education.  As a kid, we (Americans) were taught that Communism and Socialism were 'bad'.  Capitalism was 'good'.  We were taught that the Press in Russia was not free to speak it's own mind...it was controlled by the Government.  When I was in High School...things changed.  I remember my English Teacher in High School telling us that she'd been to Russia and that they were pretty much just like we were.  Everybody had TVs and Boomboxes...everybody got up and went to work and then had pretty much normal lives just like we do.  

What I witnessed as an adult is that The Democrats in Washington were all of the same mind as my English Teacher.  They are no threat...no problem...Communism isn't that bad...Socialism is actually working there pretty well...and on and on.   The Democrats and the Press were very pro Russia...and when Reagan came into office...they hated him with a passion just like they do Trump.  He called The Soviet Union an Evil Empire.  Told them to tear down the wall between East and West Berlin and the Press hated him for it.

What I realized later in life is that the Press in Russia ...was the government.  And the Press in the US was the government too.  They represented the Left view of politics and hated the Right.  The Press and the Left side of the aisle in congress were both very Pro Russia.

So...all that to say that America has a long history of the Left being Pro Russia...suddenly...enter Trump...EVERYTHING is about Russia Bad...Russia supports Trump...Trump Bad...Collusion and on and on.

So now you say...Hmm. Not sure how we got on to Russians.   How convenient to now take the platitude of 'what do the Russians have to do with anything?'.

How very convenient of you.   It has always been about the Russians Setton.  You just wait and see my friend.  You may not be a fan of Brexit now.  But wait until Russia takes THAT union as it's own.  And if you don't think they have eyes on that...if you don't think they created that union for themselves...you don't even know what kind of a chess game this really is.

Edited by joc
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aztek
On 2/4/2020 at 7:48 PM, Gromdor said:

 

A friend of mine got his arm ripped off about a year or so ago.  They put it back on, but he isn't going to go back to work there.  He had insurance, two rental properties, and some operating cash for the rental properties.  He's broke now and is trying to sell his current house and a rental property.  I'm guessing you don't have that much to cover the expenses if you had a similar medical emergency.  But even with all he had, it wiped him out.

did it happen at work?  did he hire a lawyer and sue the company?  equipment manufacturer? did he have a work. comp? policy  critical illness, accident insurance?  there are clauses in life insurance policy regarding lost limbs,   there is so much he could have done,  does not seem like a full story to me. we had guys at work get hurt,  everyone had a lawyer and got  compensated. 

Edited by aztek
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OverSword

Do you ever wonder why other countries, notably the ones with socialized medicine pay less for medication and other things than we do?  In the single payer model hospitals, doctors and drug companies are all payed by a "single payer".  The government.  The government has leverage to set fair prices and tells these entities we will only pay this much for this treatment, and there is not much they can do about it, it's the law.  As a result there is some loss of quality for those of us with good benefits, which in the USA are the people like me that have good coverage through our jobs.  For someone that has a need for medication like a diabetic or some other chronic condition single payer system would be a boon. 

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OverSword
On 2/4/2020 at 4:48 PM, Gromdor said:

A friend of mine got his arm ripped off about a year or so ago.  They put it back on, but he isn't going to go back to work there.  He had insurance, two rental properties, and some operating cash for the rental properties.  He's broke now and is trying to sell his current house and a rental property.  I'm guessing you don't have that much to cover the expenses if you had a similar medical emergency.  But even with all he had, it wiped him out.

More than likely in a single payer system he would have just lost the arm and kept his stuff so I guess the question is was it worth it?  Personally I would give all my worldly possessions to keep my arm.  I can get more stuff but can't grow a new arm.

Edited by OverSword
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Robotic Jew
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

More than likely in a single payer system he would have just lost the arm and kept his stuff so I guess the question is was it worth it?

With single payer healthcare they don't have the ability to reattach limbs?

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OverSword
3 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

With single payer healthcare they don't have the ability to reattach limbs?

That's not it.  It's a cost vs benefit thing.  A single payer system would have a budget to treat this man and the cost effective thing may be to save the life and not the arm.  Consider all the cost of medication to keep the arm viable after reattachment, the physical therapy to make it heal and work right, the extra time in the hospital using a bed that someone else may need.  The list of reasons is long.  This won't suddenly turn into an affordable procedure just because of a single payer system.

A co-worker from Sweden told me this anecdote.  Her father has a chronic condition that they give him medicine for which he needs to take for the rest of his life.  There is a surgical procedure that can be done but TPTB have determined this is the way to go.  Were he in the USA his insurance would pay for the procedure and cure him.

Edited by OverSword
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Robotic Jew
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

That's not it.  It's a cost vs benefit thing.  A single payer system would have a budget to treat this man and the cost effective thing may be to save the life and not the arm.  

Our current system works that way as well. 

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