Single-payer healthcare opinion

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, joc said:

I agree...but it isn't going to happen.  What happens on day one when you are a freshman in the House is, they read you the riot act.  If you tow the party line, if you play by the rules, if you don't question the leadership, if ......you might get put on a committee.  Otherwise you as one member of the house have Zero Power.  And if you don't ...all of the above...we will make sure you don't have a chance in hell of being re-elected!  So...how do you overcome the reality of that?!

That's why we need to completely get rid of the democrat and republican parties.  We can't do anything to change anything until that happens.

[+joc]

12 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Just to be clear.  When I said NAFTA 2.0, I am referring to Trump's deal (USMCA).  It is at root the same thing but Trump just put a different name sticker on it.  It did have some needed digital and intellectual provisions.  They revamped how cars are done a bit too.  https://www.vox.com/2018/10/3/17930092/usmca-mexico-nafta-trump-trade-deal-explained

lol okay.  No I haven't read it.  You obviously have.  And you just indicated you thought it was a good thing right?  or not

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That's why we need to completely get rid of the democrat and republican parties.  We can't do anything to change anything until that happens.

How do you propose we do that?

[Gromdor]

Just now, joc said:

lol okay.  No I haven't read it.  You obviously have.  And you just indicated you thought it was a good thing right?  or not

Well, the Republicans and Democrats like it just as much as they liked NAFTA.  So it's great for Wall Street.  For Joe on the street?  Eh, it's meh. 

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Well, the Republicans and Democrats like it just as much as they liked NAFTA.  So it's great for Wall Street.  For Joe on the street?  Eh, it's meh. 

I am already starting to see effects of the trade deals with China (possibly).  I went to Walmart the other day to get a cheap pair of earbuds...they are like 4 dollars.   None to be found...gone...the headphones I used to buy for 5 dollars...gone...no where to be found.  The next cheapest pair of earbuds was 8 dollars.  So, I figure...a lot of companies that were selling really cheap stuff can no longer afford to do that.  I dunno...we'll see how it all works out.

[aztek]

or maybe they just ran out of the ones for $5. may not have anything to do with trade war,  

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, joc said:

I am already starting to see effects of the trade deals with China (possibly).  I went to Walmart the other day to get a cheap pair of earbuds...they are like 4 dollars.   None to be found...gone...the headphones I used to buy for 5 dollars...gone...no where to be found.  The next cheapest pair of earbuds was 8 dollars.  So, I figure...a lot of companies that were selling really cheap stuff can no longer afford to do that.  I dunno...we'll see how it all works out.

Well, the Corona Virus is really hitting China's economy hard right now.  They also got blasted with swine flu and now I am hearing stuff about avian bird flu there too: https://www.businessinsider.com/bird-flu-china-coronavirus-pathogenic-strain-of-h5n1-highly-2020-2

So China is just getting blasted economically.  The good news is that means we have a lot of cards to play when it comes to them.  The bad news is that they are getting plastered so hard that they might not be able to trade.  The Chinese government is already talking about doing bailouts and stock buys of Chinese companies to try and stop it from crashing.

But long story short, you might not be able to get earbuds at all in the future with China's factories shut down due to the quarantines and the like.

[Grim Reaper 6]

17 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

I have been out since 2010.

What unit were you in, did you do service in the Middle East?

Peace

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Well, the Corona Virus is really hitting China's economy hard right now.  They also got blasted with swine flu and now I am hearing stuff about avian bird flu there too: https://www.businessinsider.com/bird-flu-china-coronavirus-pathogenic-strain-of-h5n1-highly-2020-2

So China is just getting blasted economically.  The good news is that means we have a lot of cards to play when it comes to them.  The bad news is that they are getting plastered so hard that they might not be able to trade.  The Chinese government is already talking about doing bailouts and stock buys of Chinese companies to try and stop it from crashing.

But long story short, you might not be able to get earbuds at all in the future with China's factories shut down due to the quarantines and the like.

Not for 8 bucks!   I remember when everything was made in Japan...right?  That little one earbud transistor radio I bought for 14 dollars when I was 12  with money from mowing yards.  I bought a Fender Strateocaster in 1986 that was made in Japan...it's still a great guitar!

[Grim Reaper 6]

21 minutes ago, joc said:

No, thankfully I was not.  The Iranians let the hostages go and...we didn't go to war.  I would have been right there with the Marines as a Navy Corpsman.  Two guys I know were seriously injured in a motorcycle accident at the front gate.  Came in really fast and hit the car exiting head on.  I got that call at 1:00am.  It wasn't pretty...so...they probably have disability for life.  That's probably why I am not even knowledgeable about any of that.  Never needed the VA...thankfully.

I am very glad for you, I wish I could say the same thing. Life's a B when you get old, you really feel the effects of a misspent youth.

Peace

[+Desertrat56]

18 minutes ago, joc said:

How do you propose we do that?

I have no idea, there are some organizations that are promoting getting the independents allowed to participate in the debates, and there is a group that is promoting ranked choice voting.  If we could take away the parties ability to fund raise that might be a big step.  Put limits on the amount of money any candidate can spend on a campaign, eliminate those 501C companies that make the hateful advertisements against politicians in order to further their candidate, etc.  It has to be done by taking money out of the picture.  give everyone 6 months before the election and 5000.00 dollars to campaign, EVERYONE.  Maybe 5000 is low but with computers being the main communication point why would anyone need a huge staff or parties etc. to campaign.  It is absolutely ridiculous that the campaigning starts 3 years (used to be 2) before an election.

I forgot to mention no fund raising allowed.  The 5000.00 comes from a fund set up for that, which already exists (remember the Do you want to contribute $1 to the campaign fund? question on the 1040?)

Edited February 7, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Well, the Corona Virus is really hitting China's economy hard right now.  They also got blasted with swine flu and now I am hearing stuff about avian bird flu there too: https://www.businessinsider.com/bird-flu-china-coronavirus-pathogenic-strain-of-h5n1-highly-2020-2

So China is just getting blasted economically.  The good news is that means we have a lot of cards to play when it comes to them.  The bad news is that they are getting plastered so hard that they might not be able to trade.  The Chinese government is already talking about doing bailouts and stock buys of Chinese companies to try and stop it from crashing.

But long story short, you might not be able to get earbuds at all in the future with China's factories shut down due to the quarantines and the like.

The Coronavirus is technically Avian Flu, so was SARS, along with MERS all three were transmitted by Bats and the Swine Virus only effected their pigs, they had to kill millions of them.

Peace

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Not for 8 bucks!   I remember when everything was made in Japan...right?  That little one earbud transistor radio I bought for 14 dollars when I was 12  with money from mowing yards.  I bought a Fender Strateocaster in 1986 that was made in Japan...it's still a great guitar!

Eh, it could be the tariffs.  The electronics tariffs kicked in: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/your-electronics-are-about-become-more-expensive-so-who-will-n1054986

The customers are the ones that pay the tax on it.  I thought Trump only taxed it about 25% though.  So basically 4$ buds should cost you $5.  Are you sure it's not the Corona Virus?  Apple and the like have shut their factories down in China because of the quarantine.  Stuff just isn't getting made right now.

[Agent0range]

7 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

What unit were you in, did you do service in the Middle East?

Peace

I started in 2nd BDE 2ID 2/17FA in Korea.  Deployed in 2004 to Ramadi from there.  We were drawing down from Korea, so we went to Ft. Carson, CO.  Stayed the same unit, and deployed to Baghdad for 15 months.  Got back during the BDE realignments and was reflagged to 4th BDE, 4th ID, 2/77FA.  Deployed to Kunar, Afghanistan for a year.  Came back, got out. 

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have no idea, there are some organizations that are promoting getting the independents allowed to participate in the debates, and there is a group that is promoting ranked choice voting.  If we could take away the parties ability to fund raise that might be a big step.  Put limits on the amount of money any candidate can spend on a campaign, eliminate those 501C companies that make the hateful advertisements against politicians in order to further their candidate, etc.  It has to be done by taking money out of the picture.  give everyone 6 months before the election and 5000.00 dollars to campaign, EVERYONE.  Maybe 5000 is low but with computers being the main communication point why would anyone need a huge staff or parties etc. to campaign.  It is absolutely ridiculous that the campaigning starts 3 years (used to be 2) before an election.

Freedom of Speech.  Moreover...Money is the milk and honey of politics.  Limit it?  Might as well try to plant onions on the moon.  Loudoun County, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C., is the highest-income county by median household income.   Hmmm...I wonder why that is?  An independent doesn't have a chance of getting elected...they have no base to speak of, they have no committees and hence no power.   The Raw Deal is that we cannot change Congress...they get in there and stay as long as they possibly can and skim tax money off the top to line their own pockets with.  That is the Gravy Train...and that is one reason Trump is so hated.  He said he would...Drain that swamp.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The Coronavirus is technically Avian Flu, so was SARS, along with MERS all three were transmitted by Bats and the Swine Virus only effected their pigs, they had to kill millions of them.

Peace

Yeah, the strain I was talking about was mass killing their poultry.  So basically their people, pigs and chickens are all dying right now. 

[aztek]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

Not for 8 bucks!   I remember when everything was made in Japan...right?  That little one earbud transistor radio I bought for 14 dollars when I was 12  with money from mowing yards.  I bought a Fender Strateocaster in 1986 that was made in Japan...it's still a great guitar!

in 40s and 50s made in japan  meant cheap crap.  by 70s-80s its meaning was  completely opposite,  

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, it could be the tariffs.  The electronics tariffs kicked in: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/your-electronics-are-about-become-more-expensive-so-who-will-n1054986

The customers are the ones that pay the tax on it.  I thought Trump only taxed it about 25% though.  So basically 4$ buds should cost you $5.  Are you sure it's not the Corona Virus?  Apple and the like have shut their factories down in China because of the quarantine.  Stuff just isn't getting made right now.

I'm not sure of anything..just speculating..hadn't really considered the impact of the coronavirus...that's why I said (possilbly) heh, heh.  I think  you are probably correct on that.

[+Desertrat56]

Just now, joc said:

Freedom of Speech.  Moreover...Money is the milk and honey of politics.  Limit it?  Might as well try to plant onions on the moon.  Loudoun County, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C., is the highest-income county by median household income.   Hmmm...I wonder why that is?  An independent doesn't have a chance of getting elected...they have no base to speak of, they have no committees and hence no power.   The Raw Deal is that we cannot change Congress...they get in there and stay as long as they possibly can and skim tax money off the top to line their own pockets with.  That is the Gravy Train...and that is one reason Trump is so hated.  He said he would...Drain that swamp.

That's my point money should not be the driving force of our politicians volunteering (asking to serve) it should be as the forefathers planned, a commitment to serve for 2 or 4 years then go home to your real life.   That's why I suggest the only way to change it is to take money out of the equation.  No fund raising for campaigning, no golden parachute, no special medical care. 

[aztek]

since we are talking about corona virus 

Quote

Pangolins are possible coronavirus hosts, scientists say

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pangolins-possible-coronavirus-hosts-scientists-042758577.html

 

i have a bad feeling, they all will be killed and may be eradicated as species worldwide, and then, as it usually happens, scientists will say,  'oops, they were not the problem"

Edited February 7, 2020 by aztek

[+joc]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

That's my point money should not be the driving force of our politicians volunteering (asking to serve) it should be as the forefathers planned, a commitment to serve for 2 or 4 years then go home to your real life.   That's why I suggest the only way to change it is to take money out of the equation.  No fund raising for campaigning, no golden parachute, no special medical care. 

Who exactly is going to enact Legislation to change that?  Congress.....  It's a catch 22.  Which leads us right back to Single Payer.  Single Payer = Nationalized Health Care.  Health Care in the United States = 18 % of the GDP.  In 2016 that was 3.3 Trillion dollars.    The old saying, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you give the government 3.3 trillion dollars...that's not LESS money. 

[aztek]

so that 3.3T will be taken away from insurance companies??? lol, yea they will just let it happen. NO,  not happening, ever.

what might happen gvmnt will take that 3.3T, and give it to insurance companies, so they do the same thing they did before, but now gvmnt will have another jar to take moeny from, open another huge agency to control all that, spending hundreds of billions just on bureaucratic parts, and at the end it will cost us more, and since gvmnt will mandate prices, and procedures, watch many practises close down completely. 

[+Desertrat56]

11 minutes ago, joc said:

Who exactly is going to enact Legislation to change that?  Congress.....  It's a catch 22.  Which leads us right back to Single Payer.  Single Payer = Nationalized Health Care.  Health Care in the United States = 18 % of the GDP.  In 2016 that was 3.3 Trillion dollars.    The old saying, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you give the government 3.3 trillion dollars...that's not LESS money. 

We have to force it.  Vote OUT all incumbents no matter their party over and over and over until it is no longer a viable career.  We have to take our country back.  I have been doing my part for over 2 decades, never voting for any incumbent, always voting for a 3rd choice when there is one.  If you are entrenched in that fake democrats vs republicans you will never understand how both together have ruined everything for us, all for the love of money.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Desertrat56

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Sounds like some of your relatives doesn't it!!! When referring to Suckers I mean!!

Peace

Pretty sure this is losing something in translation... 

[aztek]

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

We have to force it.  Vote OUT all incumbents no matter their party over and over and over until it is no longer a viable career. 

humans do not live ling enough to vote them all out.  you can't have your house roach free if they breed faster than you get rid of them,  and this is exactly what our govt is. 
FF gave us a way to force things on gvmnt, it is called the second amendment,  now, are you, as a person who thinks we must change the way politics are done, willing to exercise it?  i bet you are not.  neither am i but for very different reason,