Biblical contradictions?

[K9Buck]

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

[Imaginarynumber1]

[paperbag]

I do believe

10 minutes ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

I  Believe  the Bible

[Crikey]

48 minutes ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.

What contradictions?

Eyewitness accounts might differ, just as cover versions of popular songs differ, but the underlying melody stays the same..:)

Edited February 4, 2020 by Crikey

[Imaginarynumber1]

37 minutes ago, Crikey said:

What contradictions?

 

Too many too list 

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

2 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

One has to diligently study many books on ancient manuscripts about Jesus Christ or "Iesus Christos" before labeling those two verses as contradictions. Short answer: I don't see any contradictions; in fact, they very much compliment each other. Thing is, you can also add movie stars, doctors, lawyers, emperors, teachers, surfers, etc., on the list, regarding the latter verse...but again, I mention these because you have to look at it through the lens of Gnosis (ANCIENT Christian Gnosticism) or being "born again." Indeed, ancient texts also mention being "born again" and Gnosis; those ancient paths need Jesus Christ in the mix. Unless, you have this tremendous faith is Jesus Christ, and that is another story; I definitely DO NOT discount the power of faith in Christ.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Thank you for asking and being open!

Edited February 4, 2020 by Marcion Meets E. Sibyl
typo

[Orphalesion]

It's easy; the Bible is just like any other mythology in that it has contradictions, both because it was passed down verbally before written down and because the belief system of the Ancient Hebrews (old testament) and early Christians changed over time. Various parts of the Old Testament for example, still display Henotheism rather than Monotheism or deny the existence of an Afterlife (or at least a desirable one/final reward for the reighteous) because that's what the Ancient Hebrews believed at the time.
And you also gotta consider that various parts were written or re-written to serve some agenda or the other at the time.  

[K9Buck]

41 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

the Bible is just like any other mythology

Thanks for respecting the thread.

[Vorg]

5 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 
 

[Essan]

The various books were written by different people in different places and at different times.   They reflect the beliefs of the author and/or those he lived among at the time and/or what the author wanted those who read his work to believe.  

None of the books were written by God, nor were any written by a person known as Jesus Christ. 

It's therefore no surprise that people contradicted one another in details (especially since in some cases, if not many, they were oblivious at the time of what everyone else had written - the Bible not being compiled until long after all the books - and many more besides - had been written).  

Contradictions only invalidate the Bible if you consider it the Word of God.

[Will Due]

15 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 
 

 

Yes!

Do the will of the Father.

"On earth as it is in heaven".

 

No contradiction there. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Will Due

[Crikey]

In one breath skeptics say the bible has been edited over the centuries to make it look good, then in their next breath they say its full of contradictions. I wish they'd make up their minds..

[Orphalesion]

17 minutes ago, K9Buck said:

Thanks for respecting the thread.

But I am respectful. You said you wanted "scholarly" discussion, so I approached it from a historical and myhtologist angle. I didn't call Christians any names, I didn't make fun of the Bible. I didn't deny the existence of any god/s. And where I'm from Christians regard the OT (at the very least) as mythological/allegorical.   -

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

But I am respectful. You said you wanted "scholarly" discussion, so I approached it from a historical and myhtologist angle. I didn't call Christians any names, I didn't make fun of the Bible. I didn't deny the existence of any god/s. And where I'm from Christians regard the OT (at the very least) as mythological/allegorical.   -

 

I took it that he meant it as a compliment. 

 

 

[Crikey]

55 minutes ago, Essan said:

None of the books were written by God, nor were any written by a person known as Jesus Christ..

 

So what? Elvis never wrote a book either but there are books about him written by people who heard him make great prophetic utterances like- "Stay offa my blue suede shoes", right Elv?

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Crikey

[Crikey]

1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

Various parts of the Old Testament for example, still display Henotheism rather than Monotheism or deny the existence of an Afterlife..

 

Ah, but if God wanted us to stick with the OT he wouldn't have sent Jesus to deliver the NT, and people quickly cottoned on..-

"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6)

"The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)

"We serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6)

"The veil covers the old covenant, but is removed by Jesus" (2 Cor 3:12)

　

 

 

 

[Crikey]

33 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

,,where I'm from Christians regard the OT (at the very least) as mythological/allegorical..

Yes, for example the "talking snake" was just a metaphor for our darker thoughts ("satan") which tempt us to be naughty-

SATAN - "Hmm, that apple looks yummy.."

EVE - "I'm not supposed to touch it"

SATAN - "Don't be daft, if you don't have it Adam will, and then laugh at you for being a dumb little girly, you know how men are"

EVE - "I'm forbidden to have it"

SATAN - "Hmm...Your skin looks a bit dry, fresh fruit would work wonders for your complexion"

EVE - "Leave me alone!"

SATAN - "It'll just rot if left on the tree, what a waste.."

EVE - "Shut up"

SATAN - "Apples are good for teeth, you don't want yours to turn black do you?"

EVE - "Oh be quiet!"

SATAN - "You'll get scurvy without vitamin C and your gums will puff up like a boxers gumshield"..

EVE - "Clam up!"

SATAN - "Okay okay, scuse me for breathing, none of my business if you want to end up looking like a cross between Mike Tyson and Ugly Betty"..

EVE - "Hmm okay, I'd better eat it, but don't tell anyone"

SATAN - "Sure, sure, you can trust me"..

 

[Guyver]

46 minutes ago, Crikey said:

In one breath skeptics say the bible has been edited over the centuries to make it look good, then in their next breath they say its full of contradictions. I wish they'd make up their minds..

Have you considered that it could be both?  There is no doubt about the fact that the Bible has been edited over the centuries, to include the removal of about a dozen actual books.  The Bible now has 66 books, it used to have more than 70.

Now, as to the point about contradictions.  I view the Bible as being full of contradictions because it says different things about the same things.  This is so extensive that I have found it to be true with nearly every important doctrine.

For example, Paul’s epistle to the Romans claim that all men are unrighteousness and there are no righteous people, no not one.  Yet Jesus, as quoted both in the gospels and the Epistles of Peter, states the opposite that there are many righteous men, he even names some specifically, like Abel.

Lets take the topic “Justification” as another doctrinal example.  The Bible contradicts how a person is to be justified.  First, a person can be justified by faith, a person can be justified by God, a person can be justified by works, a person can be justified by faith and works, a person can be justified by faith in Christ, by Christ himself, and by other means that I have forgotten off the top of my head.  Those are two examples that represent dozens of others in this line of examination.  FYI.

[Mike BB]

6 hours ago, K9Buck said:

seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.

Not contradictions but I like the verses:
- Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
- James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.

[Crikey]

9 minutes ago, Guyver said:

For example, Paul’s epistle to the Romans claim that all men are unrighteousness and there are no righteous people, no not one.  Yet Jesus, as quoted both in the gospels and the Epistles of Peter, states the opposite that there are many righteous men, he even names some specifically, like Abel.

Lets take the topic “Justification” as another doctrinal example.  The Bible contradicts how a person is to be justified.  First, a person can be justified by faith, a person can be justified by God, a person can be justified by works, a person can be justified by faith and works, a person can be justified by faith in Christ, by Christ himself, and by other means that I have forgotten off the top of my head.  Those are two examples that represent dozens of others in this line of examination.  FYI.

 

Whoa mate, to avoid tying ourselves in knots, Paul offers this useful observation- "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

And people quickly took it on board- "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)

And Jesus made it clear that he's got their backs- "You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

Sure, the OT is interesting but let's remember that Jesus himself is the nuclear core of the Bible, and it doesn't need years of study at theological college to understand him- "And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37) 

He can easily be found in any slimline gospel like this one for a few pennies from bookshops or free from Christian groups..

[Essan]

1 hour ago, Crikey said:

 

So what? Elvis never wrote a book either but there are books about him written by people who heard him make great prophetic utterances like- "Stay offa my blue suede shoes", right Elv?

 

Good analogy - plenty of people have written books about Elvis.  Do they all agree with one another on every detail?   No ....    Doesn't mean he didn't exist.  But does it mean he really was The King? 

[Essan]

1 hour ago, Crikey said:

Yes, for example the "talking snake" was just a metaphor for our darker thoughts ("satan") which tempt us to be naughty-

 

The Garden of Eden story is one of the more illogical "just so" fairy stories that make up Genesis. 

The only way that Eve could have known that what she did was wrong was to eat of the fruit ......   Until then she had no knowledge of the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.  

This has no bearing at all on the validity of other actual teachings, or historical stories, in the many other books of the Bible, nor on the reality of the existence of God or Christ.

[Essan]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes!

Do the will of the Father.

"On earth as it is in heaven".

 

No contradiction there. 

 

 

Since I have free will, that means I can do anything I want

[Guyver]

46 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Whoa mate, to avoid tying ourselves in knots, Paul offers this useful observation- "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

And people quickly took it on board- "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2)

And Jesus made it clear that he's got their backs- "You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)

With respect sir, there is no need to consider we are tying ourselves into knots because I simply made two clear points that you did not address....instead you offered a separate point that focused on Jesus "having their backs."  That is not under discussion....but let's add it so I can confirm my points to you.  To restate.

1.  The Bible has been edited over time by men and this is not in dispute.

2.  The Bible is filled with contradictions because it says different things about the same things.  I offered two points of contradiction for discussion....righteousness and justification.

Romans 3:10 - "As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;"

Matthew 9:13 - "But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

There is a contradiction here because the Apostle Paul claims there are no righteous....but Jesus says there are.  Now, you suggested I pick up a "slimline" New Testament for my reading and understanding benefit.  I will add that the slimline testament you are holding may have Jesus' words in red.  You will find his words in red in the gospels and in the book of Revelation - indicating direct words spoken by Jesus himself.  I will address your point about Jesus having their backs in the next post...and confirm my statement about contradictions throughout the bible.....not just the Old Testament.  

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, Essan said:

Since I have free will, that means I can do anything I want