Biblical contradictions?

[Guyver]

Jesus has their backs!  Yes, he does in the gospels, and in some epistles.....but not in the Bible's last book - the Revelation.

Matthew 11:28 - "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

John 5:24 - " “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

John 6:27 - "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."

Revelation 3:14 - "“And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

So....we see a change here.  In the gospels, Jesus claims to have their backs, as you said.  But, in the Revelation, there is a different type of Jesus who is judgmental and angry.  Here Jesus claims that if a person is "lukewarm" instead of hot or cold, they will be rejected as vomit.

Does this seem contradictory to you?

Edited February 4, 2020 by Guyver

[Guyver]

8 hours ago, paperbag said:

I do believe

I  Believe  the Bible

What do you believe about it?

[Crikey]

17 minutes ago, Essan said:

Will Due said- Do the will of the Father."On earth as it is in heaven".No contradiction there. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I have free will, that means I can do anything I want

 

Yeah, call it a test but if you we choose to do baaad stuff, we flunk and end up on here-..

"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)

[Festina]

9 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Have you ever considered why bibles are Black Books?  With Numbers and Letters? 

Maybe you should read a new book.  This is a pretty good one, he likes Jesus so you won’t be offended.  However....it’s not for the faint of heart, especially chapter II, The Antichrist.  There’s a free pdf online if you want check it out first.

https://www.amazon.com/Stellar-Man-Second-Hermetic-Philosophy/dp/1882692047?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ipad-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1882692047

Wishing you well on your journey. 

[Guyver]

Crikey, post #26 was intended for you.

[Crikey]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

 In the gospels, Jesus claims to have their backs, as you said.  But, in the Revelation, there is a different type of Jesus who is judgmental and angry.  Here Jesus claims that if a person is "lukewarm" instead of hot or cold, they will be rejected as vomit.Does this seem contradictory to you?

 

Nah, Jesus wants red-hot MATES- "You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends" (John 15:15)

But if somebody who's only lukewarm turns up at the pearlies, there ain't no way they'll be able to bluff their way in.. 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Crikey

[Guyver]

Ok.....nevermind then.

[simplybill]

9 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

K9Buck - I’m not a scholarly person, though I may have another perspective for you: I believe the Bible was ‘imperfectly’ written for people like me who are filled with all kinds of imperfections and contradictions. I’ve discovered that trying to be a perfect ‘me’ only leads to perfectionism and frustration. That’s when I remind myself that I’m not meant to be a perfect me, but I’m expected to seek His righteousness, which only happens when I follow Jesus. “Less of me, more of Him”. For me, the imperfections of the Bible are reminders of the mercy of God: we humans aren’t perfect, but we still have immeasurable value in His eyes.

 

.

[Orphalesion]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Jesus has their backs!  Yes, he does in the gospels, and in some epistles.....but not in the Bible's last book - the Revelation.

Matthew 11:28 - "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

John 5:24 - " “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

John 6:27 - "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."

Revelation 3:14 - "“And to the angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither [k]cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

So....we see a change here.  In the gospels, Jesus claims to have their backs, as you said.  But, in the Revelation, there is a different type of Jesus who is judgmental and angry.  Here Jesus claims that if a person is "lukewarm" instead of hot or cold, they will be rejected as vomit.

Does this seem contradictory to you?

 Well the easiest answer to that is that the Revelation of John isn't an actual End Times Prophecy, like the vast majority of Apocalypses, it's a coded allegory. In this case for the persecution of Christians in the Late Pagan Roman Empire.  Hence all the gory killing "righteous" smiting and the emphasis on being fanatically "faithful" or being cast out.

[Duke Wellington]

6 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

It's easy; the Bible is just like any other mythology in that it has contradictions, both because it was passed down verbally before written down and because the belief system of the Ancient Hebrews (old testament) and early Christians changed over time. Various parts of the Old Testament for example, still display Henotheism rather than Monotheism or deny the existence of an Afterlife (or at least a desirable one/final reward for the reighteous) because that's what the Ancient Hebrews believed at the time.
And you also gotta consider that various parts were written or re-written to serve some agenda or the other at the time.  

No where in the Bible does it say there is an afterlife.

It says at some point we all get resurrected and heaven will be established on Earth. I take that to mean super advanced human civilization will bring us all back to live in a perfected society.

When it comes to debating things with people 95% have the same views. Its the other 5% that are really interesting to have conversations with especially when you get them to go really deep. You would be surprised at how someone alive now with different perceptions about what is now can use them to figure out what is in the future. And do so, so that its water-tight.

While many of the 5% are crazies, the geniuses that make you think and question everything are in that percentage too.

[Orphalesion]

28 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

No where in the Bible does it say there is an afterlife.

It says at some point we all get resurrected and heaven will be established on Earth. I take that to mean super advanced human civilization will bring us all back to live in a perfected society.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

Quote

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Job 7:9-10

Quote

As the cloud fades and vanishes, so those who go down to Sheol do not come up; they return no more to their houses, nor do their places know them any more.

Psalm 88:5

Quote

I am set apart with the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more, who are cut off from your care.

The Ancient Hebrews didn't start out with a belief in a resurrection of the dead. At best these verses describe a half-conscious shadow-existence of the dead, not unlike some other mythologies in that general area and at least the Job one can very much be interpreted as a cessation of existence. It wasn't until later that thoughts of a more structured afterlife and a resurrection of the dead with eternal rewards/punishments  were developed.
If you look at places like the exchange between Jesus and the Sedducees it shows that the idea of a resurrection  wasn't an universally accepted doctrine in Ancient Judea even by the time Yeshua is said to have preached.

[Duke Wellington]

11 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Ecclesiastes 9:5

Job 7:9-10

Psalm 88:5

The Ancient Hebrews didn't start out with a belief in a resurrection of the dead. At best these verses describe a half-conscious shadow-existence of the dead, not unlike some other mythologies in that general area and at least the Job one can very much be interpreted as a cessation of existence. It wasn't until later that thoughts of a more structured afterlife and a resurrection of the dead with eternal rewards/punishments  were developed.
If you look at places like the exchange between Jesus and the Sedducees it shows that the idea of a resurrection  wasn't an universally accepted doctrine in Ancient Judea even by the time Yeshua is said to have preached.

And not one of your quotes refers to an afterlife, and no where in the Bible is there an afterlife. So whats your point?

Human civilization is going all the way. It might take 100 years, it might take 5000, but we are all coming back mark my words.

[+Desertrat56]

11 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Please, the biggest confusion for people who quote the bible is that the quotes are incomplete sentences.  Have you read the whole sentence for each of these fragments you quote?  Of course everything is confusing if you only use or get snippits.  I know most people are taught to only use snippits but it lacks comprehension and allows for a lot of misuse.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shalle he live:  (26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.  Believest thou this?" 

So Jesus is talking to Martha answering her statement or question (not easy to tell with King James)  that Lazarus will be resurrected, saying that you can escape death by believing in him.  That has nothing to do with Corinthians morals list.

Corinthians 1 6:9 Know ye not that the unrightoues shall not inherit the kingdom of God?  Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abuses of themselves with mankind, (10) nor theives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extroioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 

For one thing Paul is not Jesus and is not speaking for Jesus.  He is a Roman who wants to be like Jesus but has no clue why people followed Jesus.  He is listing things to judge people by, and claiming that it will keep them from the kingdom of heaven, which in the quote from John, does not mention the kingdom of heaven. 

So, my opinion is that your confusion is based on not reading the whole chapter but rather snippits and also based on not paying attention to who is talking in each book.

[+Desertrat56]

10 hours ago, Marcion Meets E. Sibyl said:

Thing is, you can also add movie stars, doctors, lawyers, emperors, teachers, surfers, etc., on the list, regarding the latter verse

Is there anyone who can get into your version of "the kingdom of heaven"?  Did you forget anyone you think should be included?  How do you earn your living?

Edited February 4, 2020 by Desertrat56

[XenoFish]

12 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible. 

I'm not exactly in a mood to get into an argument with anyone. But I want to ask, What exactly is the take-away you have gotten with Christianity? Pro's/Con's etc. Just curious.

Edited February 4, 2020 by XenoFish

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Is there anyone who can get into your version of "the kingdom of heaven"?  Did you forget anyone you think should be included?  How do you earn your living?

Can't remember where I read it, but I think there is a line in the bible that say that god can say no to anyone. No matter how devout and righteous. Kinda like, "You were good, but you know, I just don't want you in heaven." It's a lose-lose situation.

[+Desertrat56]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Can't remember where I read it, but I think there is a line in the bible that say that god can say no to anyone. No matter how devout and righteous. Kinda like, "You were good, but you know, I just don't want you in heaven." It's a lose-lose situation.

Yes, I remember that is what I was told as a child "the grace of god" meant.  So, even young I thought people were making stuff up and using god as their excuse.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yes, I remember that is what I was told as a child "the grace of god" meant.  So, even young I thought people were making stuff up and using god as their excuse.

There's also something about those who are basically ,"Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" and he's like, nah dawg I don't know you. I wonder how many Christians would be left behind due to false faith?

[Guyver]

5 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

 Well the easiest answer to that is that the Revelation of John isn't an actual End Times Prophecy, like the vast majority of Apocalypses, it's a coded allegory. In this case for the persecution of Christians in the Late Pagan Roman Empire.  Hence all the gory killing "righteous" smiting and the emphasis on being fanatically "faithful" or being cast out.

Ok.....thanks, you could be right.  There is no doubt the Revelation contains symbolic language.  But at the same time, words do mean things, and the beginning of the prophecy, the first verse, does state that these things are about to take place - which would substantiate your point, in hindsight now considering the persecution of Christians by Nero.  

However, the remainder of the work speaks not only to immediate persecution of Christians, but it also speaks to Christ’s imminent return....and the complete destruction of the entire planet after Satan has been locked up in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.  Furthermore, it claims that this actual planet will be replaced with another one like it but there will be no more seas. You can read this in the first verses of chapter 21.

For those reasons and others, I consider the work an obvious false prophecy and not an allegory.  FWIW.

[Guyver]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm not exactly in a mood to get into an argument with anyone. But I want to ask, What exactly is the take-away you have gotten with Christianity? Pro's/Con's etc. Just curious.

Not to be obnoxious......but in his OP he states he does not wish to debate things or be insulted, he just wants scholarly input on biblical contradictions.  Do you have any info on that point you can offer?

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Not to be obnoxious......but in his OP he states he does not wish to debate things or be insulted, he just wants scholarly input on biblical contradictions.  Do you have any info on that point you can offer?

Are you my boss? 

[Guyver]

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Are you my boss? 

Please don’t be an a whole.  This thread is about biblical contradictions, not your feelings.

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I am a Christian that is confused by some of the seeming contradictions that appear throughout the bible.  By the way, my hope is that this can be a rather scholarly discussion and NOT a thread for bashing believers and the bible.  Thank you in advance for your consideration.  

 

Example 1:

John 11:26 ²⁶and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 

I don't necessarily believe this, but I understand the premise 

My question is, where is the contradiction? 

Greedy, thieving drunks wont pass the character test for admission into the new earth  

 If the y truly believed in christ, they would follow his template and live like him 

That's the nature of belief.

Not just claiming belief, but believing so much, that your actions fit your  beliefs.

A person who chooses those qualities CANNOT be a true believer in christ. 

 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Please don’t be an a whole.  This thread is about biblical contradictions, not your feelings.

If the questions get answered they get answered. If not, that's fine too. Ain't about my feels so don't start that junk with me. Isn't this place about Q & A with no one being under the obligation to answer anyone? It is, now to move on.

[Mr Walker]

8 hours ago, Essan said:

The Garden of Eden story is one of the more illogical "just so" fairy stories that make up Genesis. 

The only way that Eve could have known that what she did was wrong was to eat of the fruit ......   Until then she had no knowledge of the difference between good and evil, right and wrong.  

This has no bearing at all on the validity of other actual teachings, or historical stories, in the many other books of the Bible, nor on the reality of the existence of God or Christ.

You dont require knowledge of good and evil when you have been given just ONE prohibition by your god/creator (In the narrative) 

It is a question of obedience/disobedience not knowledge The point  (as always in these examples) is  that god knows better than humans and when we disobey god, bad things happen. 

They were given the rule and told what would happen if they disobeyed it . You dont need any knowledge or even much intelligence to obey a simple rule like that.