Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #151 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Piney said: I don't see any scholars. Just apologists. Did you bother researching their qualifications ? Ithink you use apologist incorrectly, with the negative bias many attach to it Many biblical scholars are christian but remain good academic scholars. One does not disqualify the other For example one person I sourced Stacy A. Trasancos is a Catholic educator, author, and scientist with a doctorate in chemistry from Penn State University and a master’s degree in dogmatic theology from Holy Apostles College and Seminary. She was a research chemist for DuPont but left to raise children and converted to Catholicism in 2006. Trasancos teaches theology and science courses at Seton Hall University and Holy Apostles. In 2018-19, she begins a new role as the director of Bishop Thomas K. Gorman Online to extend Catholic education to the entire diocese of Tyler, TX, where she is also a fellow at the St. Philip Institute. She is the author of Science Was Born of Christianity and Particles of Faith. She and her husband, José, have seven children and three grandchildren and reside in Hideaway, TX. or this guy Kings college New York FACULTY & STAFF MATT PERMAN DIRECTOR OF CAREER DEVELOPMENT Matt is the director of career development at King’s where he helps prepare students to navigate their careers effectively. He also develops strategic partnerships with employers to generate opportunities for students to work and intern at those companies. He is author of the best-selling book What’s Best Next: How the Gospel Transforms the Way You Get Things Done and a frequent speaker on leadership, productivity, and theology from a gospel-centered perspective. He worked for 13 years at Desiring God in Minneapolis where he led the web department and then served as director of strategy. He has also served as director of marketing at Made to Flourish, an organization dedicated to helping pastors connect faith and work, and is co-founder of What’s Best Next, which aims to empower Christians to be more effective in all areas of life. Matt received his undergrad in philosophy (with a minor in business) from the University of Northern Iowa and received his M.Div. in biblical and theological studies from Southern Seminary. He lives in Manhattan. https://www.tkc.edu/faculty-and-staff/matt-perman/ Edited February 9, 2020 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #152 Share Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Did you bother researching their qualifications ? Ithink you use apologist incorrectly, with the negative bias many attach to it Many biblical scholars are christian but remain good academic scholars. One does not disqualify the other For example one person I sourced Stacy A. Trasancos is a Catholic educator, author, and scientist with a doctorate in chemistry from Penn State University and a master’s degree in dogmatic theology So she has no background in the history or context. Making her a straight up apologist with a degree in it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #153 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Piney said: So she has no background in the history or context. Making her a straight up apologist with a degree in it. lol Masters Degree in Dogmatic Theology not good enough for you, huh? Stop changing the goal posts. My original post referred to biblical studies and theology NOT, in this case, any history but how students of the bible may best interpret the words of the bible. That makes her an expert in the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted February 9, 2020 #154 Share Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Did you bother researching their qualifications ? what do you mean by "qualifications" in this context? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #155 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, Mr Walker said: lol Masters Degree in DOGMATIC Theology not good enough for you, huh? Stop changing the goal posts. Does this part sink in? She isn't a ordained seminarian with the full background in the linguistics and history. Therefore she's a "apologist". Of course you are clueless how academia works. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #156 Share Posted February 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Matt received his undergrad in philosophy (with a minor in business) from the University of Northern Iowa and received his M.Div. in biblical and theological studies from Southern Seminary. He lives in Manhattan. Which "Southern Seminary"? There is 3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #157 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, Piney said: Does this part sink in? She isn't a ordained seminarian with the full background in the linguistics and history. Therefore she's a "apologist". Of course you are clueless how academia works. Nup it is you who is not just ignorant but biased. You seem to have some idea that believers are automatically discredited as academics. If a person has the qualifications they are a qualified academic, no matter what the y believe (and how it conflicts with your own beliefs) Just your use of the word apologist as you do in a derogatory way shows this The question was "ho w do experts, writers, and academics, in biblical studies vie the resurrected body of humans based on the bible Thus a study of the bible and academic expertise in this is important So here is ANOTHER contributor Short Bio – Monsignor Charles Pope Msgr. Charles Pope was born July 10, 1961, in Chicago, Illinois to Charles and Nancy Pope. He and his family moved to the Washington, D.C. area in 1972. He studied in the public school system and graduated from Garfield Senior High School in Woodbridge, VA in 1979. Fr. Pope attended George Mason University for Undergraduate Studies were he attained a Bachelor of Science Degree in Computer Science in 1984. He worked briefly with the Army Corp of Engineers as a Computer Systems Analyst. Fr. Pope’s interest in the priesthood stems from his experience as a church musician. Through his college years he served as a church organist, a cantor and choir director, and through this work discovered his vocation to the priesthood. He entered Mt. Saint Mary’s Seminary in 1985 where he earned a Master of Divinity Degree as well as a Master of Arts Degree in Moral Theology. He was ordained to the priesthood on June 24, 1989 by James Cardinal Hickey. Fr. Pope’s first assignment was at Mt. Calvary Parish in Forestville, MD as Associate Pastor from 1989-1993. From 1993-1999 Fr. Pope served as Associate Pastor of Holy Comforter – St Cyprian in Southeast Washington, D.C. From 1999-2000 he was Associate Pastor at St. Mary’s Parish in Laurel, MD. In April of 2000 Fr. Pope was appointed Pastor of St. Thomas More Parish in Southeast Washington, D.C. In 2007 Msgr. Pope returned to Holy Comforter – St. Cyprian Parish where he currently serves as Pastor. https://msgrpope.com/about-us/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #158 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Piney said: Which "Southern Seminary"? There is 3. and why would that matter unless you were biased and ranked them according to how you viewed them ? An academic qualification from a recognised and physical institution is all it takes to be a legitimate academic That qualification MAKES their views and opinions legitimate ( as an academic opinion or viewpoint) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #159 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: Nup it is you who is not just ignorant but biased. You seem to have some idea that believers are automatically discredited as academics. Nup, I'm a seminarian who interprets it many different ways. The Presbyterians, UME Methodists and Quakers teach your soul goes straight to Heaven and you aren't resurrected. Which is my point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted February 9, 2020 #160 Share Posted February 9, 2020 qualifications/ expert etc.... The only thing folk can be an expert in is knowing all the stories- examples: a ufo expert/ a bigfoot expert/ a loch-ness monster expert etc etc etc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #161 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: That qualification MAKES their views and opinions legitimate ( as an academic opinion or viewpoint) As it does mine. Touche. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #162 Share Posted February 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Dejarma said: what do you mean by "qualifications" in this context? I've given examples in my last few posts. I mean academic qualifications from universities in the main (although some colleges would provide a similar academic background) and with some relevance to biblical studies We are discussing interpretation of biblical writing, not historical fact, thus those with study, background and writings on this subject are qualified to speak on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted February 9, 2020 #163 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: We are discussing interpretation of biblical writing I'm talking logic/ rational thinking here= "interpretation" (great word that in a place like this) life is great.. For me life is simple= it's either real or it's not.. I feel no need to interpret anything. The fact that some feel a need to interpret what they're told (in a story) makes me worry about us humans in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #164 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Piney said: Nup, I'm a seminarian who interprets it many different ways. The Presbyterians, UME Methodists and Quakers teach your soul goes straight to Heaven and you aren't resurrected. Which is my point. I would like to know more about that theology Iam always open to learn more about other people's beliefs and interpretations Especially definitions of "straight" Do you mean that, on death you go to heaven /hell right now in real time, or that for you it seems as if it is immediate What do you describe as heaven and what place does the new earth play in human eternal life I appreciate the bible can be interpreted in many ways and this has led to a lot of conflict I was raised atheist and studied for a decade with many groups. I tend to generally discredit mauch catholic doctrine as non biblical and find most sympathy with biblically based beliefs like born again christians and those who have carefully studied the text . If you are not resurrected then how is your life continued after death? (given that resurrection requires death) I am familiar with methodists and presbyterians (both part of the uniting church In australia but their beliefs here are not quite as your brief description implies Do your beliefs mean you have to disallow most of revelations as non biblical, and if so, how do you justify doing that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #165 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just now, Dejarma said: I'm talking logic/ rational thinking here= "interpretation" (great word that in a place like this) life is great.. For me life is simple= it's either real or it's not.. I feel no need to interpret anything. The fact that some feel a need to interpret what they're told (in a story) makes me worry about us humans in the future You don't read enough Every book and every story, from brer rabbit to the bible must be read and understood, in order to take a message of the writer from it. It is how we come to knowledge and understandings beyond those we gain from physical experience and the ONLY way we can understand the human past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted February 9, 2020 #166 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: You don't read enough Every book and every story, from brer rabbit to the bible must be read and understood, in order to take a message of the writer from it. It is how we come to knowledge and understandings beyond those we gain from physical experience and the ONLY way we can understand the human past i feel no need to read anything.... everything i do & say is ME. no influence from anyone else, I feel no need to listen to others. I write music= I feel no need to listen to others for ideas/ inspiration: everything I do or say is me, & me alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #167 Share Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Piney said: As it does mine. Touche. Indeed. But yours is not mainstream A question. I have only known a few quakers and they didn't seem to have much of a view or concern about the afterlife Ie for them this life was the most important A quality i admire and believe in.I know from personal experience the reality and power of that inner light in my life Are there different views among different groups of quakers and what is your understanding of the most common view (or your own) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #168 Share Posted February 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: I would like to know more about that theology Iam always open to learn more about other people's beliefs and interpretations Mainstream Jesuits teach Christ has already returned and reside in peoples hearts. As with UME Methodists. mainstream Presbyterians and Christian Quakers ( there are non-Christian ones). They also teach you die and your soul goes to Heaven. No resurrection involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #169 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Dejarma said: i feel no need to read anything.... everything i do & say is ME. no influence from anyone else, I feel no need to listen to others. I write music= I feel no need to listen to others for ideas/ inspiration: everything I do or say is me, & me alone Interesting philosophy and it seems to work for you. I couldn't live like that. I read over a million words a week and gain incredible knowledge from doing so I have read on a rough estimate over 60000 books in my life and many more than that, magazines and journals and newspapers However this is all filtered and reconstructed to become "me" just as learning to surf, ski or ride bareback is assimilated into me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted February 9, 2020 #170 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Interesting philosophy and it seems to work for you. I couldn't live like that. I read over a million words a week and gain incredible knowledge from doing so so why is it you still talk crap? maybe you should stop reading what others say.. like i do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #171 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: Indeed. But yours is not mainstream Princeton and the U. of Penn. aren't mainstream? What's not mainstream is I'm a Buddhist Sohei, a Senpai. Which is above a monk, but below a priest and was taught Shamanism by my gramps. But I did teach World religion in the Quaker Sunday Schools. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #172 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Piney said: Mainstream Jesuits teach Christ has already returned and reside in peoples hearts. As with UME Methodists. mainstream Presbyterians and Christian Quakers ( there are non-Christian ones). They also teach you die and your soul goes to Heaven. No resurrection involved. I will have to research more. Indeed god resides within us, as we reside within god That can be known from experience. However it doesn't preclude BELIEF in different forms of after life Fundamentalists often believe you die and your soul will go to heaven if you are saved. however the bible shows an interval of sleep will pass and that resurrection and judgement will occur in a chronological order before you are given a new body and a new immortal life on the new earth Some seem to think that sleep only applies to the physical body not the soul yet the bible talks of dying and then,on the instant, rising from death for judgement (which is well in the future) Thus while no time pases for the dead/sleeping time continues for the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted February 9, 2020 #173 Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Are there different views among different groups of quakers and what is your understanding of the most common view (or your own) There are Christian Quakers and Non-theistic Quakers. My birth Meeting was Non-theistic but with the new members is leaning towards Christian. I "disowned" myself anyway because the SJWs make me sick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 9, 2020 #174 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Piney said: Princeton and the U. of Penn. aren't mainstream? What's not mainstream is I'm a Buddhist Sohei, a Senpai. Which is above a monk, but below a priest and was taught Shamanism by my gramps. But I did teach World religion in the Quaker Sunday Schools. No your pov is not mainstream christian (And thus not mainstream biblical deconstruction) This is shown by the fact you are a quaker/ buddhist Neither of which is mainstream for a christian This debate is particularly about how scholars deconstruct the biblical references to our resurrected bodies. Not sure how relevant the buddhist or even quaker view is UNLESS you have done your own study on the issue Its not about how we believe such a body might be, but what the writers in the bible say such a body might be. I have no belief in an afterlife at all other than one made possible by technology but i have done a lot of deconstruction of biblical texts and a decade of study on what the writers thought and meant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 9, 2020 #175 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: but i have done a lot of deconstruction of biblical texts and a decade of study on what the writers thought and meant I "quake" at the thought of it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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