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K9Buck

Biblical contradictions?

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Dream?

So much of life we take for granted, is woven from dreams. In purely physical terms, our intellectual self perception is at odds with biological reality. We are animals like any other animal; we live, we breed, we die. Yet, safely ensconced in the warm womb of culture, technology and the artifice of civilization, we imagine and dream quite elaborate dreams of being something more, something greater than the sum of our parts. To stop dreaming is to die, slowly or quickly. You, yourself, experienced vicariously and intimately how horrific it was for one woman for which it was the former, slowly, how she couldn't accept it. Dream as long as life permits. Religion, for many, is a kind of dream that eases their passage.

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

So much of life we take for granted, is woven from dreams. In purely physical terms, our intellectual self perception is at odds with biological reality. We are animals like any other animal; we live, we breed, we die. Yet, safely ensconced in the warm womb of culture, technology and the artifice of civilization, we imagine and dream quite elaborate dreams of being something more, something greater than the sum of our parts. To stop dreaming is to die, slowly or quickly. You, yourself, experienced vicariously and intimately how horrific it was for one woman for which it was the former, slowly, how she couldn't accept it. Dream as long as life permits. Religion, for many, is a kind of dream that eases their passage.

:wub:

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Guyver
4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The bible like all holy books are not the word of god or any god for that matter. We don't need to argue that point. I'm just as puzzled as you as to why people are so convinced that their "Holy Word" is literally gods desires. Then again how many cherry pick the bible anyway? Too many if you ask me.

The Christians completely cherry pick the Bible and pick and choose what to believe. This is demonstrated simply by the vast differences in doctrines of Christian groups like Catholics, Mormons, and Jehovah Witnesses.  But whatever, people get to believe whatever they wish anyway.  And, as you say....whatever helps them get through this world without hurting themselves or others is OK.

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Guyver
4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

If christians left non-christians alone you could read or believe anything you want, but you want a war and you want to be the only people allowed into heaven and you also for some reason need brownie points to convince people to believe in your heaven.  There are no nonchristians scuppering anything involving your beliefs.  You do that yourself.  If it were the nonchristians then you would be able to prove them wrong by doing your miracles, no one is stopping you but yourself.

Good point.  You know what I think is contradictory with respect to your point here....in the New Testament Epistles, God is said to be the God of Love and Peace, and also that God is love.  Yet, in the Revelation it claims there was war in heaven.

And, it says that God is coming down here to kill everyone besides the Christians, basically....

So, it seems contradictory to me that the God of Love and Peace would allow a war in heaven and slay all the wicked sinners....then resurrecting them so that they can spend the rest of eternity suffering in the Lake of Fire.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all loving....then there would be no war in heaven because he would just say no.  How could God have enemies if there is no one else like him?  It’s crazy to me.  If God wished a being to not exist, he could instantly vaporize them, and if didn’t wish an event to occur, he has the power to stop it, and change it to the way he wishes.

I mean....that’s what I think about it anyway.

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Guyver

 

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Pak91866

It can happen because god gives us freewill. 

3 hours ago, Guyver said:

Good point.  You know what I think is contradictory with respect to your point here....in the New Testament Epistles, God is said to be the God of Love and Peace, and also that God is love.  Yet, in the Revelation it claims there was war in heaven.

And, it says that God is coming down here to kill everyone besides the Christians, basically....

So, it seems contradictory to me that the God of Love and Peace would allow a war in heaven and slay all the wicked sinners....then resurrecting them so that they can spend the rest of eternity suffering in the Lake of Fire.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all loving....then there would be no war in heaven because he would just say no.  How could God have enemies if there is no one else like him?  It’s crazy to me.  If God wished a being to not exist, he could instantly vaporize them, and if didn’t wish an event to occur, he has the power to stop it, and change it to the way he wishes.

I mean....that’s what I think about it anyway.

Because of freewill.

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Desertrat56
12 hours ago, Guyver said:

Good point.  You know what I think is contradictory with respect to your point here....in the New Testament Epistles, God is said to be the God of Love and Peace, and also that God is love.  Yet, in the Revelation it claims there was war in heaven.

And, it says that God is coming down here to kill everyone besides the Christians, basically....

So, it seems contradictory to me that the God of Love and Peace would allow a war in heaven and slay all the wicked sinners....then resurrecting them so that they can spend the rest of eternity suffering in the Lake of Fire.

If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all loving....then there would be no war in heaven because he would just say no.  How could God have enemies if there is no one else like him?  It’s crazy to me.  If God wished a being to not exist, he could instantly vaporize them, and if didn’t wish an event to occur, he has the power to stop it, and change it to the way he wishes.

I mean....that’s what I think about it anyway.

Therein lies the cognitive dissonance that causes most people to walk away or go insane trying to rectify that.  Maybe it would help if you remember that each section of that book was written by someone different, with different needs, fears and beliefs so there is no way to take the whole book as a coherent work.

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Guyver
19 hours ago, Pak91866 said:

It can happen because god gives us freewill. 

Because of freewill.

Really?  

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Guyver

We can’t  even agree on what freewill means.  But, by definition....freewill means having the ability to choose your own actions.

Therefore, a being of the highest order who also must have freewill, would not choose to allow anything against love.

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Will do
9 hours ago, Guyver said:

We can’t  even agree on what freewill means.  But, by definition....freewill means having the ability to choose your own actions.

Therefore, a being of the highest order who also must have freewill, would not choose to allow anything against love.

 

But Guyver, then you wouldn't have "the ability to choose your own actions". :P

 

 

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jmccr8
On 2/12/2020 at 4:28 PM, Desertrat56 said:

Maybe he can learn.  I don't know how young he is.

70

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
On 2/13/2020 at 6:03 AM, Guyver said:

Right.  Well, I just have a problem with the notion of original sin in the first place.  That makes no sense whatsoever.  How in the world is it just or righteous to hold an innocent person accountable for the misdeeds of another human being?

It isn’t.  No one chose to come here as far as we can recall, but we did find ourselves here in this place of struggle. To be born into a world of death and be automatically condemned for no fault of your own is just like a complete failure on the part of the Maker.  I just can’t accept it personally.  I think that if there is a God who made us, He knew exactly what he was doing and what we would become.

Original sin is a construct    which early writers devised to explain how humans can know and understand the good/bad consequences of our thoughts and behaviours yet  choose evil.

We know we are capable of choosing good every time, so why do we choose evil ?

Not having any background in psychology evolutionary drivers or habit forming behaviours, early writers explained it by humans falling awy from  a perfect  created being 

So what is its relevance now? It is a reminder that while we all have things which drive us to behave badly we KNOW good from  bad and CAN at least  aim for better behavior.  We know we are accountable for destructive behaviours 

The point of the bible is that EVERY human, living or dead,  is  ALREADY saved from the fall, and only has to be accountable for their personal behaviours.

SOunds reasonable to me, even as a theo-logical position  I was raised as a secular humanist to believe that i was responsible for every thought and every action i took There was no one else to blame or to take the credit , only me . Not even circumstances and environment could be used as an excuse, because if you  have, and hold on  to, an ethical value position, it applies in any circumstances, even up   to death

You are not condemned in biblical theology,   you are already saved, and have to make no effort to avoid sin in order to be judged for it  If you  do sin, the solution given is to repent, ask for forgiveness, make restitution for harm done, and try your hardest not to repeat your mistake  If all that is too much effort, then I guess, philosophically, a person gets what the y deserve.  

It is impossible for any real being, even a god, to know in advance what choices you will make  That is because there are "a million" different choices you might yet make.

None are fixed or determined.

Anything is possible, and you get to choose.  

A "god" ,or avery advanced ai, "might" be able to see most of those potentials, but it can never work out which will occur because it  is not fixed/does not exist and may never exist.   From one second to another you might completely change your mind.

  It is easy to predict the future a second in advance. Harder to predict it a week in advance, and impossible to predict it a year in advance, with any certainty    

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
On 2/14/2020 at 3:08 PM, Guyver said:

We can’t  even agree on what freewill means.  But, by definition....freewill means having the ability to choose your own actions.

Therefore, a being of the highest order who also must have freewill, would not choose to allow anything against love.

I disagree with will in my understanding 

You are correct  The person would not CHOOSE to allow anything against love Thus they have free will because it IS a choice 

I think you mean such a being would not allow hurt to others.

  That's more debatable . Love comes in different forms.

A parent who truly loves a child allows them to take risks so the y can grow, evolve and learn, even when those risks might be considerable  Then it is up to the child to choose wisely. To deprive others of free will is not an act of love, IMO, but an evil act,  

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Desertrat56
On 2/12/2020 at 3:09 PM, XenoFish said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inspiration

Biblical inspiration is the doctrine in Christian theology that the human authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God with the result that their writings may be designated in some sense the word of God.[1]

Yes, that is the Doctrine, which was made up by humans.  

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/doctrine?s=t

doctrine

[ dok-trin ]
 

noun

1. a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine.
2. something that is taught; teachings collectively: religious doctrine.
3. a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject: the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

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Desertrat56
On 2/12/2020 at 3:09 PM, XenoFish said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inspiration

Biblical inspiration is the doctrine in Christian theology that the human authors and editors of the Bible were led or influenced by God with the result that their writings may be designated in some sense the word of God.[1]

Yes, that is the Doctrine, which was made up by humans.  

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/doctrine?s=t

doctrine

[ dok-trin ]
 

noun

1. a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine.
2. something that is taught; teachings collectively: religious doctrine.
3. a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject: the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

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