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K9Buck

Biblical contradictions?

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Essan

To be fair, it is very likely that all of us know a lot more people than Jesus ever did


btw, why did God wait billions of years before creating humans?  what was he doing with the trilobites?  And do they all go to heaven?  I think we deserve to know!

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Will Due
12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

If that is true then how can some people not be allowed into the kingdom of heaven?  I think that is what you are talking about, right?  If someone chooses not to love Jesus they can't get into heaven.

 

It's not that they're not allowed, it's that they don't want to. 

Everyone is allowed. Encouraged really. But some choose not to allow themselves into heaven.

Although, hearts do change sometimes. :)

 

 

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Guyver
3 hours ago, Crikey said:

1- Jesus said:- "Whoever rejects me rejects God"......"Whoever's ashamed of me and my words, I'll be ashamed of him" (Luke 10:16,Mark 8:38 ) so there ain't no way hozay Jesus-rejecters get through the pearlies or it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood".

1 John 4:7-8 " Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."

Matthew 25:46 - "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

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Guyver
3 hours ago, Crikey said:

2- All kids are born innocent and bound for the pearlies, even mentally/physically handicapped ones; I used to work for the Scope charity and their natural innocence gives them a head start over the rest of us, though atheist Dawkins might not agree-

Would you mind showing me in the bible where children and handicapped people are all innocent and bound for heaven?

Romans 3:10 - "As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;"

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Desertrat56
20 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's not that they're not allowed, it's that they don't want to. 

Everyone is allowed. Encouraged really. But some choose not to allow themselves into heaven.

Although, hearts do change sometimes. :)

 

 

That makes no sense to me unless your god is a person, not a omnipotent deity.  Why bother?

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Festina
On 2/4/2020 at 12:54 PM, Desertrat56 said:

 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:  (26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.  Believest thou this?" 

Matthew 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

——-

To rescue them from their occult dictator, The bloodthirsty War LORD God of Israel.    And thereby free us all from its negative influence. Unfortunately, he failed.  It seems no one else needing saving / rescuing. 

https://biblehub.com/leviticus/

 

 

 

Edited by Festina Lente
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Will Due
37 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

That makes no sense to me unless your god is a person, not a omnipotent deity.  Why bother?

 

It's up to you. :tu:

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Guyver
8 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Guyv,

It's about love. Love for Jesus. Love for doing as he did. To love all like he loves all. With a fatherly love. 

Fatherly love is how he loves us. It's different than brotherly love. Loving your neighbor as yourself. Fatherly love is greater than brotherly love. 

And this is what's either weak or strong. Love for Jesus.

 

 

See that first part you said?  I can see why you like that.  It’s just that the same Jesus who loves everyone and wants everyone to love him is coming back to slay all the wicked people and throw them into burning fiery hell to be tormented forever.  According to the Bible

That makes me not like this Bible Jesus because I think that true love combined with the power of Almighty God would make all the wicked just instantly disappear and be non-existent instead of torturing them forever.  I mean forever is a long long time.

Thinking of the precision, dependability, beauty, sheer vastness of the universe...can you imagine?  If God could do that, then he has the power to make any or all of his enemies plus all wicked sinners just instantly dematerialize into pure vapor.

Thats the way loving God would kill you.  

IMHO.

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Will Due
44 minutes ago, Guyver said:

See that first part you said?  I can see why you like that.  It’s just that the same Jesus who loves everyone and wants everyone to love him is coming back to slay all the wicked people and throw them into burning fiery hell to be tormented forever.  According to the Bible

That makes me not like this Bible Jesus because I think that true love combined with the power of Almighty God would make all the wicked just instantly disappear and be non-existent instead of torturing them forever.  I mean forever is a long long time.

Thinking of the precision, dependability, beauty, sheer vastness of the universe...can you imagine?  If God could do that, then he has the power to make any or all of his enemies plus all wicked sinners just instantly dematerialize into pure vapor.

Thats the way loving God would kill you.  

IMHO.

 

Guyv,

Come on now. Fathers don't kill their children. Good fathers I'm talking about.

Never.

Fathers, true fathers will die if it means their children can live. I know you know this.

I also know you've spent a lot of time in the past being the best Christian you can. I read most of your posts. Based on how you've described things, your basis for being a follower of Jesus is driven by what the Bible says.

But the Bible is an old book. Washed many times. 2000 years of being handled by sometimes not very spiritual individuals who twisted things when translating and copying it. This is a fact. It's a fact that demands not a little bit of courageous discrimination when reading it. Taking note where there are spiritual inconsistencies. 

Discrimination in setting apart those things written in it that are not Godly. That are not Jesusonian. Things like killing and torturing. Burning alive for eternity etc. Ghastly things. Ungodly things written by obviously ungodly men.

Those things actually, are rather easy to recognize as unworthy of reverence. It's the more sublime and closer to home things that should be embraced. Like the love of a good father. Like the love of a good mother. They're clearly portrayed in the text. All mixed in with some very purile and dastardly things that are obviously unbecoming of a loving father. Not to mention God. Not to mention Jesus. 

It's not that hard to do.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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joc
14 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Guyv,

Come on now. Fathers don't kill their children. Good fathers I'm talking about.

Never.

Fathers, true fathers will die if it means their children can live. I know you know this.

I also know you've spent a lot of time in the past being the best Christian you can. I read most of your posts. Based on how you've described things, your basis for being a follower of Jesus is driven by what the Bible says.

But the Bible is an old book. Washed many times. 2000 years of being handled by sometimes not very spiritual individuals who twisted things when translating and copying it. This is a fact. It's a fact that demands not a little bit of courageous discrimination when reading it. Taking note where there are spiritual inconsistencies. 

Discrimination in setting apart those things written in it that are not Godly. That are not Jesusonian. Things like killing and torturing. Burning alive for eternity etc. Ghastly things. Ungodly things written by obviously ungodly men.

Those things actually, are rather easy to recognize as unworthy of reverence. It's the more sublime and closer to home things that should be embraced. Like the love of a good father. Like the love of a good mother. They're clearly portrayed in the text. All mixed in with some very purile and dastardly things that are obviously unbecoming of a loving father. Not to mention God. Not to mention Jesus. 

It's not that hard to do.

 

 

Is that why you cling to the old rugged Urantia BS?

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Guyver

Will, question.  

If you believe in the parts of the Bible you believe in, but reject the false parts.....aren’t you by default calling the whole Bible in question?

I mean how would you know you picked the right parts to believe in?

Maybe the angry God who wants to kill everyone from the Old Testament is the real God and loving Jesus is just make believe?

 

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Will Due
16 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Will, question.  

If you believe in the parts of the Bible you believe in, but reject the false parts.....aren’t you by default calling the whole Bible in question?

I mean how would you know you picked the right parts to believe in?

Maybe the angry God who wants to kill everyone from the Old Testament is the real God and loving Jesus is just make believe?

 

 

This IS a crazy world. You look around and go, what the hell? Lots of things make no sense at all. 

I look at the Bible and say the same thing. But the world isn't totally crazy. Neither is the Bible. The really important things do make sense. Like love in a good marriage. Like love in a good family. Like the love between good parents and their good children. Like the love between good friends.

But when you concentrate on all the black spots instead of the much bigger white background, you'll tend to drift off into the abyss. The abyss of despair and hopelessness. 

Same thing with the Bible.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Habitat

No less a luminary than the Immortal Bard, saw fit to place in one of his character's mouth, these words......

See the source image

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Habitat

…..which certainly suggests the bible is riddled with contradictions.

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Guyver
19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

This IS a crazy world. You look around and go, what the hell? Lots of things make no sense at all. 

I look at the Bible and say the same thing. But the world isn't totally crazy. Neither is the Bible. The really important things do make sense. Like love in a good marriage. Like love in a good family. Like the love between good parents and their good children. Like the love between good friends.

But when you concentrate on all the black spots instead of the much bigger white background, you'll tend to drift off into the abyss. The abyss of despair and hopelessness. 

Same thing with the Bible.

 

 

I bet your kinda religion is actually good for the world.

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, Guyver said:

Would you mind showing me in the bible where children and handicapped people are all innocent and bound for heaven?

Romans 3:10 - "As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;"

Ah but we are all clothed in righteousness by christs sacrifice, dressed in pure white raiments.

We are not righteous ourselves but our sins are covered or washed away by christ's sacrifice 

Thus we only have to concern ourselves with individual sins and there is a procedure in the bible to be forgiven those sins.

So indeed, everyone who"believes and behaves "  can be resurrected, and then live for ever on the new earth  (In biblical theology ) 

Even those who died before christ and are still "sleeping in their graves" are covered by this. 

Because all original sin is removed by christ the only sins are those we commit.

A child or intellectually disabled person is not capable of sinning,(knowingly committing a wrong or harm by choice)  and thus does not require forgiveness for their individual sins in life. 

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Mr Walker
37 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Will, question.  

If you believe in the parts of the Bible you believe in, but reject the false parts.....aren’t you by default calling the whole Bible in question?

I mean how would you know you picked the right parts to believe in?

Maybe the angry God who wants to kill everyone from the Old Testament is the real God and loving Jesus is just make believe?

 

There is no angry god in the OT who wants to kill everyone. There may be a loving god desperate to stop the cancer of sin from  hurting humans and causing harm and suffering 

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Guyver
24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ah but we are all clothed in righteousness by christs sacrifice, dressed in pure white raiments.

We are not righteous ourselves but our sins are covered or washed away by christ's sacrifice 

Thus we only have to concern ourselves with individual sins and there is a procedure in the bible to be forgiven those sins.

How would you even know that?  It’s something you’re choosing to believe from the Bible while simultaneously dismissing the parts you don’t like.

No one wants to slaughter a goat for their “sins” in today’s modern world. So yeah, believing Jesus just takes all your sins away is an easy thing to embrace.  

I believe in taking responsibility for my own actions.

Edited by Guyver
Insert Jesus
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Guyver
22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There is no angry god in the OT who wants to kill everyone. There may be a loving god desperate to stop the cancer of sin from  hurting humans and causing harm and suffering 

The Old Testament, the Bible’s very first book states God does want to kill everyone.  I already quoted in this thread.  How do you not know it?

Not only that it clearly states there are people God loves and others he hates....like Esau. 

It also states that his mercy only covers thousands.....not everyone.

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Guyver
25 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

There is no angry god in the OT who wants to kill everyone. There may be a loving god desperate to stop the cancer of sin from  hurting humans and causing harm and suffering 

You think the God of the universe could make a world where he would not know the outcome?

Thats foolish.  We are advanced beings of the animal type and the fossil record shows it.

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

How would you even know that?  It’s something you’re choosing to believe from the Bible while simultaneously dismissing the parts you don’t like.

No one wants to slaughter a goat for their “sins” in today’s modern world. So yeah, believing Jesus just takes all your sins away is an easy thing to embrace.  

I believe in taking responsibility for my own actions.

Well put. Christianity appears to suggest we are off the hook because some poor sap got strung up on a cross. The truth is, many thousands of others of his time got similarly cruelly slaughtered, and they apparently did not save anyone. I have always thought it was garbage. I reckon the fella himself would consider it garbage. The truth is elsewhere in the text.

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

You think the God of the universe could make a world where he would not know the outcome?

Thats foolish.  We are advanced beings of the animal type and the fossil record shows it.

No real being can be omnipotent nor omniscient 

I dont believe a god created the universe i believe gods are evolved products of the universe.

Old wise and powerful,  guiding younger species to  wisdom and maturity but not all seeing or all knowing.

Nothing real can be that.

Gods are real so they are not omniscient nor omnipotent  

I was pointing out that  the writers of the OT did not see god as evil or cruel Just, yes but merciful and loving  He was THEIR god and they believed he created them, so no, the y did not perceive god as evil or cruel Thats a modern judgement based on modern moralities.

  I think they saw god as closer in nature to man  than we do Capable of good and evil but wiser in his choices and greater in his power. In genesis the writer even explains that, given knowledge and immortality human beings would become gods themselves  so that when the y gained knowledge, god took their immortality away from  them to prevent this  

I dont get your last point.  of course we are evolved  animals 

That does not preclude a an older wiser being or race trying to help us survive and become wiser

My point was that the writers of the OT who had no conception of evolution, but saw the world as a created place,  saw sin as a cancer destroying humanity ( and the world that god had created) In their creation myth, the  thus had god having to decide whether to wipe the slate clean altogether or give a few humans a second chance 

God was merciful, but first noah then the others reverted to sin 

Again humans are still here, and still sinful, so the writers had to explain this in their story.   It is not god who is the bad guy in genesis. It is humanity and satan.  its not god who is eveil inthe OT againits humanity and satan (either a  separate  being, or one side of humanity) 

 

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

The Old Testament, the Bible’s very first book states God does want to kill everyone.  I already quoted in this thread.  How do you not know it?

Not only that it clearly states there are people God loves and others he hates....like Esau. 

It also states that his mercy only covers thousands.....not everyone.

Want is different to needing to.

Sin was a cancer destroying the earth and humanity (in the writer's eyes) Thus god the creator of all (in their eyes) had a choice.

surgically remove the cancer or destroy the living planet and begin again  He chose the former but perhaps should have gone for the latter.

However, his love for his creation (in the narrative)  stopped him doing that 

There may be contradictions based on writers opinions But my reading is tha god hates sin but not sinners (otherwise none of the bible story makes sense eg why absolve every sinner and allow every one forgiveness if he hates them  )

Its true tha t in the OT,  god only had a covenant with israel  (where the writers came from) :)  but christ extended that covenant  to every human being and back dated it.  christ is and always was god from the beginning (he was the word and the word was god)  and so he is also  the god of the OT 

 

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Want is different to needing to.

Sin was a cancer destroying the earth and humanity (in the writer's eyes) Thus god the creator of all (in their eyes) had a choice.

surgically remove the cancer or destroy the living planet and begin again  He chose the former but perhaps should have gone for the latter.

However, his love for his creation (in the narrative)  stopped him doing that 

There may be contradictions based on writers opinions But my reading is tha god hates sin but not sinners (otherwise none of the bible story makes sense eg why absolve every sinner and allow every one forgiveness if he hates them  )

Its true tha t in the OT,  god only had a covenant with israel  (where the writers came from) :)  but christ extended that covenant  to every human being and back dated it.  christ is and always was god from the beginning (he was the word and the word was god)  and so he is also  the god of the OT 

 

Good Lord, I had visions of you reciting all that with an Ian Paisley lilt. The only thing missing was the " there will be a great gnashing of teeth". ;)

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Mr Walker
11 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Good Lord, I had visions of you reciting all that with an Ian Paisley lilt. The only thing missing was the " there will be a great gnashing of teeth". ;)

:) It is what the writers believed

it  is also often what some fundamentalists believe, having closely read and studied the bible, who strangely have a much kinder view of god than catholics raised on fire brimstone sin hell and damnation 

Is also the mythology behind revelations  which is NOt a reference to the destruction of the temple or roman occupation.

It really is an allegorical or literal(by belief) end of world scenario where the unrepentant die a second death of body and soul(no hell involved ) and the saved are placed on a new earth restored to edanic conditions It even ends with the words" I am the alpha and the omega" (the beginning and the end)   

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