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K9Buck

Biblical contradictions?

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Mr Walker
14 minutes ago, Piney said:

I don't see any scholars. Just apologists. 

 

Did you bother researching their qualifications ? 

Ithink you use apologist incorrectly, with the negative bias many attach to it     Many biblical  scholars are christian but remain good academic  scholars.

One does not disqualify the other 

For example one person I  sourced 

Stacy A. Trasancos is a Catholic educator, author, and scientist with a doctorate in chemistry from Penn State University and a master’s degree in dogmatic theology from Holy Apostles College and Seminary. She was a research chemist for DuPont but left to raise children and converted to Catholicism in 2006. Trasancos teaches theology and science courses at Seton Hall University and Holy Apostles. In 2018-19, she begins a new role as the director of Bishop Thomas K. Gorman Online to extend Catholic education to the entire diocese of Tyler, TX, where she is also a fellow at the St. Philip Institute. She is the author of Science Was Born of Christianity and Particles of Faith. She and her husband, José, have seven children and three grandchildren and reside in Hideaway, TX.

 

or this guy

Kings college 

New York

FACULTY & STAFF

MATT PERMAN

DIRECTOR OF CAREER DEVELOPMENT

Matt is the director of career development at King’s where he helps prepare students to navigate their careers effectively. He also develops strategic partnerships with employers to generate opportunities for students to work and intern at those companies.

He is author of the best-selling book What’s Best Next: How the Gospel Transforms the Way You Get Things Done and a frequent speaker on leadership, productivity, and theology from a gospel-centered perspective. He worked for 13 years at Desiring God in Minneapolis where he led the web department and then served as director of strategy. He has also served as director of marketing at Made to Flourish, an organization dedicated to helping pastors connect faith and work, and is co-founder of What’s Best Next, which aims to empower Christians to be more effective in all areas of life.

Matt received his undergrad in philosophy (with a minor in business) from the University of Northern Iowa and received his M.Div. in biblical and theological studies from Southern Seminary. He lives in Manhattan.

https://www.tkc.edu/faculty-and-staff/matt-perman/

Edited by Mr Walker

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Piney
7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Did you bother researching their qualifications ? 

Ithink you use apologist incorrectly, with the negative bias many attach to it     Many biblical  scholars are christian but remain good academic  scholars.

One does not disqualify the other 

For example one person I  sourced 

Stacy A. Trasancos is a Catholic educator, author, and scientist with a doctorate in chemistry from Penn State University and a master’s degree in dogmatic theology

So she has no background in the history or context. Making her a straight up apologist with a degree in it. 

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Mr Walker
1 minute ago, Piney said:

So she has no background in the history or context. Making her a straight up apologist with a degree in it. 

lol Masters Degree in Dogmatic Theology not good enough for you, huh? :)  Stop changing the goal  posts. 

My original  post referred to biblical studies and theology NOT, in this case, any history but how students of the bible may best interpret the words of the bible.

That makes her an expert in the field :)

 

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Dejarma
16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Did you bother researching their qualifications ? 

what do you mean by "qualifications" in this context? 

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Piney
Just now, Mr Walker said:

lol Masters Degree in DOGMATIC Theology not good enough for you, huh? :)  Stop changing the goal  posts. 

 

Does this part sink in? She isn't a ordained seminarian with the full background in the linguistics and history. Therefore she's a "apologist". 

Of course you are clueless how academia works. 

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Piney
21 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Matt received his undergrad in philosophy (with a minor in business) from the University of Northern Iowa and received his M.Div. in biblical and theological studies from Southern Seminary. He lives in Manhattan.

 

Which "Southern Seminary"? There is 3. 

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Mr Walker
Just now, Piney said:

Does this part sink in? She isn't a ordained seminarian with the full background in the linguistics and history. Therefore she's a "apologist". 

Of course you are clueless how academia works. 

Nup it is you who is not just ignorant but biased. You seem to have some idea that believers are automatically discredited as academics.

If a person has the qualifications they are a qualified academic, no matter what the y believe (and how it conflicts with your own beliefs)   Just your use of the  word apologist   as you do in a derogatory way shows this 

The question was "ho w do experts, writers, and academics, in biblical studies vie the resurrected body of humans based on the bible 

Thus a study of the bible and academic expertise in this is important 

So here is ANOTHER contributor 

 Short Bio – Monsignor Charles Pope

Msgr. Charles Pope was born July 10, 1961, in Chicago, Illinois to Charles and Nancy Pope. He and his family moved to the Washington, D.C. area in 1972. He studied in the public school system and graduated from Garfield Senior High School in Woodbridge, VA in 1979.

Fr. Pope attended George Mason University for Undergraduate Studies were he attained a Bachelor of Science Degree in Computer Science in 1984. He worked briefly with the Army Corp of Engineers as a Computer Systems Analyst.

Fr. Pope’s interest in the priesthood stems from his experience as a church musician. Through his college years he served as a church organist, a cantor and choir director, and through this work discovered his vocation to the priesthood. He entered Mt. Saint Mary’s Seminary in 1985 where he earned a Master of Divinity Degree as well as a Master of Arts Degree in Moral Theology. He was ordained to the priesthood on June 24, 1989 by James Cardinal Hickey.

Fr. Pope’s first assignment was at Mt. Calvary Parish in Forestville, MD as Associate Pastor from 1989-1993. From 1993-1999 Fr. Pope served as Associate Pastor of  Holy Comforter – St Cyprian in Southeast Washington, D.C. From 1999-2000 he was Associate Pastor at St. Mary’s Parish in Laurel, MD. In April of 2000 Fr. Pope was appointed Pastor of St. Thomas More Parish in Southeast Washington, D.C. In 2007 Msgr. Pope returned to Holy Comforter – St. Cyprian Parish where he currently serves as Pastor.

https://msgrpope.com/about-us/

 

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Which "Southern Seminary"? There is 3. 

and why would that matter unless you were biased and ranked them according to how you viewed them ? 

An academic  qualification from  a recognised and physical institution is all it takes to be a legitimate academic :)  

That qualification MAKES their views and opinions legitimate  ( as an academic opinion or viewpoint) 

 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Nup it is you who is not just ignorant but biased. You seem to have some idea that believers are automatically discredited as academics.

Nup, I'm a seminarian who interprets it many different ways.

The Presbyterians, UME Methodists and Quakers teach your soul goes straight to Heaven and you aren't resurrected.

Which is my point. 

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Dejarma

qualifications/ expert etc.... The only thing folk can be an expert in is knowing all the stories- examples:

a ufo expert/ a bigfoot expert/ a loch-ness monster expert etc etc etc

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Piney
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

That qualification MAKES their views and opinions legitimate  ( as an academic opinion or viewpoint) 

As it does mine.

Touche.

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Mr Walker
11 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

what do you mean by "qualifications" in this context? 

I've given examples in my last few posts.

I mean academic qualifications  from  universities in the main  (although some colleges would provide a similar academic background) and with some relevance to biblical studies 

We are discussing interpretation of biblical writing, not historical fact, thus those with study, background and writings on this subject are qualified to speak on it. 

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Dejarma
2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

We are discussing interpretation of biblical writing

I'm talking logic/ rational thinking here= "interpretation" (great word that in a place like this)

life is great.. For me life is simple= it's either real or it's not.. I feel no need to interpret anything.

The fact that some feel a need to interpret what they're told (in a story) makes me worry about us humans in the future

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Nup, I'm a seminarian who interprets it many different ways.

The Presbyterians, UME Methodists and Quakers teach your soul goes straight to Heaven and you aren't resurrected.

Which is my point. 

I would like to know more about that theology  Iam always open to learn more about other people's beliefs and interpretations  

Especially definitions of "straight" Do you mean that, on death you go to heaven /hell right now in real time, or that for you it seems as if it is immediate  

What do you describe as heaven and what place does the new earth play in human eternal life 

I appreciate the bible can be interpreted in many ways and this has led to a lot of conflict I was raised atheist and studied for a decade with many groups.

I tend to generally discredit mauch catholic doctrine as non biblical  and find most sympathy with biblically based beliefs like born again christians and those who have carefully studied the text .

If you are not resurrected then how is your life continued after death?  (given that resurrection requires death) I am familiar with methodists and presbyterians (both part of the uniting church In australia but their beliefs here are not quite as your brief description implies  

Do your beliefs mean  you  have to disallow most of revelations as non biblical, and if so, how do you justify doing that ? 

 

 

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Mr Walker
Just now, Dejarma said:

I'm talking logic/ rational thinking here= "interpretation" (great word that in a place like this)

life is great.. For me life is simple= it's either real or it's not.. I feel no need to interpret anything.

The fact that some feel a need to interpret what they're told (in a story) makes me worry about us humans in the future

You don't read enough :)  Every book and every story, from  brer rabbit to the bible must be read and understood, in order to take a message of the writer  from it.

  It is how we come to knowledge and understandings beyond those we gain from  physical experience and the ONLY way we can understand  the human past 

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Dejarma
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

You don't read enough :)  Every book and every story, from  brer rabbit to the bible must be read and understood, in order to take a message of the writer  from it.

  It is how we come to knowledge and understandings beyond those we gain from  physical experience and the ONLY way we can understand  the human past 

i feel no need to read anything.... everything i do & say is ME. 

no influence from anyone else, I feel no need to listen to others.

I write music= I feel no need to listen to others for ideas/ inspiration:

everything I do or say is me, & me alone

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Mr Walker
16 minutes ago, Piney said:

As it does mine.

Touche.

Indeed. But yours  is not mainstream :) 

A question.

I have only known a few quakers and they didn't seem to have much of a view or concern about the afterlife Ie for them this life was the most important A quality i admire and believe in.I know from personal experience the reality and power of that inner light in my life  

Are there  different views among different groups of quakers and what is your understanding of the most common view (or your own)   

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Piney
10 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I would like to know more about that theology  Iam always open to learn more about other people's beliefs and interpretations  

Mainstream Jesuits teach Christ has already returned and reside in peoples hearts. As with UME Methodists. mainstream Presbyterians and Christian Quakers ( there are non-Christian ones). They also teach you die and your soul goes to Heaven. No resurrection involved. 

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Mr Walker
1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

i feel no need to read anything.... everything i do & say is ME. 

no influence from anyone else, I feel no need to listen to others.

I write music= I feel no need to listen to others for ideas/ inspiration:

everything I do or say is me, & me alone

Interesting philosophy and it seems to work for you.

I couldn't live like that. I read over a million words a week and gain incredible knowledge from doing so  I have read on a rough estimate  over 60000 books in my life and many more than that, magazines and journals and newspapers 

However this is all filtered and reconstructed to become "me" just as learning to surf, ski or ride bareback is assimilated into me 

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Dejarma
2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Interesting philosophy and it seems to work for you.

I couldn't live like that. I read over a million words a week and gain incredible knowledge from doing so

so why is it you still talk crap? maybe you should stop reading what others say.. like i do

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Piney
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Indeed. But yours  is not mainstream :) 

Princeton and the U. of Penn. aren't mainstream? :lol:

What's not mainstream is I'm a Buddhist Sohei, a Senpai. Which is above a monk, but below a priest and was taught Shamanism by my gramps. 

But I did teach World religion in the Quaker Sunday Schools. 

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Mr Walker
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Mainstream Jesuits teach Christ has already returned and reside in peoples hearts. As with UME Methodists. mainstream Presbyterians and Christian Quakers ( there are non-Christian ones). They also teach you die and your soul goes to Heaven. No resurrection involved. 

I will have to research more.  Indeed god resides within us, as we reside within god That can be known from experience. However it doesn't preclude BELIEF in different forms of after life

Fundamentalists often believe you die and your soul will go to heaven if you are saved. however the bible shows an interval of sleep will pass and that resurrection and judgement will occur in a chronological order  before you are given a new body and  a new immortal   life on the new earth  Some seem to think that  sleep only applies to the physical body not the soul  yet the  bible talks of dying and then,on the instant, rising from death for judgement (which is well in the future) Thus while no time pases for the  dead/sleeping  time continues for the world. 

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Piney
8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Are there  different views among different groups of quakers and what is your understanding of the most common view (or your own)   

There are Christian Quakers and Non-theistic Quakers.

My birth Meeting was Non-theistic but with the new members is leaning towards Christian.

I "disowned" myself anyway because the SJWs make me sick. 

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Princeton and the U. of Penn. aren't mainstream? :lol:

What's not mainstream is I'm a Buddhist Sohei, a Senpai. Which is above a monk, but below a priest and was taught Shamanism by my gramps. 

But I did teach World religion in the Quaker Sunday Schools. 

No your pov is not mainstream christian :)  (And thus not mainstream biblical deconstruction) This is shown by the fact you are a quaker/  buddhist   Neither of which is mainstream for  a christian 

This debate  is particularly about how scholars deconstruct the biblical references to our resurrected bodies. Not sure how relevant the buddhist or even  quaker view is UNLESS you have done your own study on the issue Its not about how we believe such a body might be, but what the writers in the bible say such a body might be.   I have no belief in an afterlife at all other than one made possible by technology but i have done a lot of deconstruction of biblical texts and a decade of study on what the writers thought and meant   

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

but i have done a lot of deconstruction of biblical texts and a decade of study on what the writers thought and meant 

I "quake" at the thought of it !

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