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VastLand

American Giants

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Kenemet
7 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm not around this section much, but are all threads like this? 

When some Caucasian dude sails in and starts telling the Native Americans all about their culture... yeah.  It gets that way.

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Kenemet
6 hours ago, Piney said:

20 something Mission Native. One of the Diggers. 

Oh right.  Wisdom of the elders, there....

Someone needs to tell him some Coyote stories.

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Kenemet
9 hours ago, VastLand said:

Below, you will find a link to a youtube video, produced by Robert Sepehr, an amateur(engaged in an unpaid, yet professional basis) anthropologist, who, in this video, can be found speaking from his education and various sources, on the topic of "Ancient Giants", even those in America.

Speaking as an anthropologist, he doesn't seem to actually have read any of the many fine textbooks on the topic of anthropology.  And I wouldn't call him professional.  

I'm familiar with a number of origin stories and with a number of the tales of giants from different tribes.  No tribe reported "red haired" people ... and the giants they talk about are generally the size of mountains (so half a mile high or taller... clearly mythic and not real.)  And most of the books of "indian tales" are written by white men for white men (and women and children.)   There are some excellent works (Franz Boas is one such author) but it takes time to ferret out the real ones.  And once you get a sense of how a tribe tells a story, the ones that are fake (which are being discussed in the video) really stand out as being fake.  They're not true to the culture or to the way the people of that tribe (or culture) spoke and thought.

If you want to read about some real monsters of the Native Americans, do start with Boaz.  His works are now available for free (most of them) and you will get a sense of how different REAL Native American stories and thought are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas#Writings

 

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Crikey
9 hours ago, VastLand said:

..I would like for a discussion on the matter of "Giants in America"..

 

Well let me toss this verse into the playpen and speculate that the word "giant" could possibly refer to intellectual giants rather than physical ones, and that their DNA was possibly introduced into the human gene pool to improve the human race?

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Bible:Genesis 6:4)

Giants-hominids4_zpsftcnqpxw.jpg~origina

 

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Kenemet
3 minutes ago, Crikey said:

 

Well let me toss this verse into the playpen and speculate that the word "giant" could possibly refer to intellectual giants rather than physical ones, and that their DNA was possibly introduced into the human gene pool to improve the human race?

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Bible:Genesis 6:4)

Giants-hominids4_zpsftcnqpxw.jpg~origina

 

If so, they did a darn poor job of passing along the DNA for intelligence.

We don't see any vast and sudden leaps in technology and lifestyle until humans group themselves into civilization and have farming, transportation, government, writing, and so forth.  And we don't see any swift movement of technology until the 19th, 20th, and 21st century when the world and its societies become hyperconnected and there's a rapid exchange of information and technology and techniques.

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Crikey
5 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

If so, they did a darn poor job of passing along the DNA for intelligence.

We don't see any vast and sudden leaps in technology and lifestyle until humans group themselves into civilization..

 

Perhaps the ancient invention of the wheel and fire rank as vast leaps in technology?

 

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Essan
8 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Howdy Vastland

To make it easier what is the one physical piece of evidence that you feel proves whatever you think you need to prove?

 

All the physical evidence has been destroyed or hidden by archaeologists.  That's how we know it must be real!   Otherwise, why would they have destroyed/hidden it all?  :rolleyes:

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Sir Wearer of Hats
1 hour ago, Crikey said:

 

Perhaps the ancient invention of the wheel and fire rank as vast leaps in technology?

 

They were, however both of those were the consequential invention of observation and experimentation. You get a roundish rock and watch it roll, sooner or later womeone’s going to go “if we make that rounder, it’ll go faster” and eventually “HA! we can make any rock round!” And Fire is from watching lightning etc and going “you know, this hot stuff is great, I wonder if we can make it without having to wait for lightning?” and experimenting by hitting things together and rubbing things (because fire is hot and anything you rub get warm, QED you can rub things enuogh to make them fire”.

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Habitat
2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

You’d think that, but ****ing everyone is dead set proud of having a convict in their heritage - if it’s a bush ranger it’s literally the second thing they’ll tell you.

Yeah, well that is pretty dumb too. But piney has unfortunately not seen the light, parading pride in one's ancestors is odious, and an attempt to bath in the reflected glory of others, which speaks more than anything, of a lack of confidence in one's own personal achievements. In a wartime meeting, Churchill regaled Stalin with a story of an illustrious forebear, the Duke of Marlborough. "Who ?" says Stalin. "Never heard of him. If you had said, the Duke of Wellington, I would be more impressed, he got rid of Napoleon, we need someone of that calibre to get rid of Hitler". Churchill was said to have been incandescent with rage, talking with his aides after the meeting, endlessly railing about Stalin's peasant background. and was up half the night fretting over it. What does that say about Churchill, I wonder. Anyway, Churchills room was very likely bugged, so the episode may have been a source of great amusement for the Soviet dictator.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Yeah, well that is pretty dumb too. But piney has unfortunately not seen the light, parading pride in one's ancestors is odious, and an attempt to bath in the reflected glory of others, which speaks more than anything, of a lack of confidence in one's own personal achievements. In a wartime meeting, Churchill regaled Stalin with a story of an illustrious forebear, the Duke of Marlborough. "Who ?" says Stalin. "Never heard of him. If you had said, the Duke of Wellington, I would be more impressed, he got rid of Napoleon, we need someone of that calibre to get rid of Hitler". Churchill was said to have been incandescent with rage, talking with his aides after the meeting, endlessly railing about Stalin's peasant background. and was up half the night fretting over it. What does that say about Churchill, I wonder. Anyway, Churchills room was very likely bugged, so the episode may have been a source of great amusement for the Soviet dictator.

And you have not seen Piney’s point about “white culture”, you and I are scions of a long legacy that teaches from a young age “you are the boss of you, and you are what you create”, whereas other folks on this rock of ours are scions of different legacies, ones that teach “you are part of a story that goes back....”. 

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And you have not seen Piney’s point about “white culture”, you and I are scions of a long legacy that teaches from a young age “you are the boss of you, and you are what you create”, whereas other folks on this rock of ours are scions of different legacies, ones that teach “you are part of a story that goes back....”. 

Don't worry, I have met numerous people of the "white culture" who knock up telling you about the great deeds of their forebears. Boring people, basically. A blow-fly has far more "successful" generations behind it than any of us !

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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Don't worry, I have met numerous people of the "white culture" who knock up telling you about the great deeds of their forebears. Boring people, basically. A blow-fly has far more "successful" generations behind it than any of us !

Blow flies are less judgmental though. 

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Piney
4 hours ago, VastLand said:

There is more to it, I did not get into detail about all the theories of the time, nor in depth in a single theory, I am expecting people to have an awareness to the time period, before they come in here and discuss. That way I do not have to give them the run down, you see?

Sepehr has never been involved in Moundbuilder digs. I have. They are my ancestors. He lies in the video there has been plenty of digs involving them and I've handled many of my ancestors bones. They are not giant Whitemen and Sepehr is a acknowledged  WHITE SUPREMACIST AND AMERICAN GENOCIDE DENIER WHO'S BEEN SUPPORTED BY MEMBERS OF STORMFRONT!! 

Edited by Piney
**** Atlantis
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Habitat

Those mounds were not the white man's over-burden ?

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RoofGardener

Am I not correct in thinking that there has NEVER been ANY archaeological evidence for giants ? 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Am I not correct in thinking that there has NEVER been ANY archaeological evidence for giants ? 

Unless you see YouTube videos, amateur websites and myths as evidence, then you would be correct in assuming that no evidence exists.

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Crikey
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

..You get a roundish rock and watch it roll, sooner or later womeone’s going to go “if we make that rounder, it’ll go faster”...And Fire is from watching lightning etc and going “you know, this hot stuff is great, I wonder if we can make it without having to wait for lightning?” and experimenting by hitting things together and rubbing things (because fire is hot and anything you rub get warm, QED you can rub things enuogh to make them fire”.

 

Yeah I suppose somebody accidentally found a rock with a hole in it and poked a stick through it and thought "Aha, I've invented the wheel!"

Fire too could have been accidental, for example somebody could have been chipping out flint arrowheads and a spark ignited some nearby dry grass, so he put two and two together..:)

PS- What about the incredibly complicated business of weaving fibres to make clothes? I wonder where that knowledge came from?

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RoofGardener
8 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Yeah I suppose somebody accidentally found a rock with a hole in it and poked a stick through it and thought "Aha, I've invented the wheel!"

Not NECESSARILY. They MIGHT have thought "Aha.. I've invented the doughnut", or "Aha, I've invented the polo mint". 

9 minutes ago, Crikey said:

PS- What about the incredibly complicated business of weaving fibres to make clothes? I wonder where that knowledge came from?

The same place that ALL knowledge comes from. 

Google ! 

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onlookerofmayhem
9 minutes ago, Crikey said:

What about the incredibly complicated business of weaving fibres to make clothes? I wonder where that knowledge came from?

Trial and error. 

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Essan
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Don't worry, I have met numerous people of the "white culture" who knock up telling you about the great deeds of their forebears. Boring people, basically. A blow-fly has far more "successful" generations behind it than any of us !

This is where I am lucky

the most illustrious thing any of my forebears ever did was drink a quart a rough cider for lunch and still manage to plough 2 fields in the afternoon :D 

(I come from a very long line of simple farm labourers)

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Essan
34 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Am I not correct in thinking that there has NEVER been ANY archaeological evidence for giants ? 

No, see above.  There has.  But it was all destroyed or hidden.  This proves it must have existed (and, ergo, that giants existed), because you can't destroy or hide that which does not exist :D 

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Hanslune
3 hours ago, Essan said:

All the physical evidence has been destroyed or hidden by archaeologists.  That's how we know it must be real!   Otherwise, why would they have destroyed/hidden it all?  :rolleyes:

That was something I also thought was kinda mad about the idea. Why would Christian Americans NOT want to have the only 'source' of giants in the world. Giants were in the Bible so why would they not just love that idea?

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Desertrat56
10 hours ago, VastLand said:

No, this information comes from personal and non-personal works. That is to say, book reading, listening to other "scholarly" opinions, paperwork, Oral story listening, and involvement with other tribes, are all ways in which I gather the information that I present. Today's post was concerning the joys of my mind grazing, as I came across an entertaining video. It is here that I entertained Ideas, to consider my own thoughts on the matter. I see a couple of grains that coalesce with the studies of mine, and I felt it was worth talking about. Entirely, I admit he has his own interpretations on his YT channel, and having an opinion does not make it fact. Simply, I have common sense, to understand people did not talk about these "larger than normal" findings for no damn reason. 

I did not have time to watch the video, however I have heard stories of larger than normal human bones being found in the midwest and taken to the Smithsonian for study never to be seen again.  I don't discount the possibility of giants, there are stories in a lot of mythology around the planet of giants, I just don't think that conversation should be included in the other stuff you mentioned in your OP.  Why bring up the story about white native that became red when they also became savages, that is incindiary at best in my opinion and has nothing to do with stories about giants. 

So, is the discussion about the possibility of giants or about all manner of myths about the amreicas prepetrated by europeans?

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Kenemet
7 hours ago, Crikey said:

 

Perhaps the ancient invention of the wheel and fire rank as vast leaps in technology?

 

The wheel was only invented in places where the wheel made sense (not in Egypt, for instance.)  And fire, as technology is very very very ancient (400,000 years but possibly even further back https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans.) But other than cooked meat and burning grass to produce new vegetation, nothing was done with fire (like pottery, smelting, etc, etc) for hundreds of thousands of years -- even though fire provided light for nighttime activities.

We don't get the wheel until a mere 8,000 years ago (long after the end of the Ice Age).  So... at the very least, that was a gap of 392,000 years (or so) between fire and the wheel.

That's not a great leap in intellect, there. 

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Kenemet
21 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I did not have time to watch the video, however I have heard stories of larger than normal human bones being found in the midwest and taken to the Smithsonian for study never to be seen again.

I think that if you'll check those sources, you will find that they're in "Tales of the Old West" type magazines and the occasional newspaper report (later found to be unconfirmed; most were found to be hoaxes/jokes.)

Quote

  I don't discount the possibility of giants, there are stories in a lot of mythology around the planet of giants, I just don't think that conversation should be included in the other stuff you mentioned in your OP.  Why bring up the story about white native that became red when they also became savages, that is incindiary at best in my opinion and has nothing to do with stories about giants. 

So, is the discussion about the possibility of giants or about all manner of myths about the amreicas prepetrated by europeans?

Those, however, are good questions.

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