Love - Peace - Wisdom

[Crazy Horse]

A philosophical question concerning our over-all ability to take back control over a large chunk of our lives.

Does ones attitude, and therefore ones actions of loving kindness produce a sense of peace, and does this inner quietness help an individual to see things more clearly? 

Is it reasonable to suggest that love equals peace, and that peace equals wisdom?

Is it simple cause and effect?

And if one can live this life, would this also mean more skill, grace, integrity and happiness, which in-turn feed back into the loop, so to speak, of more love, a greater sense of peace and well-being, and even greater wisdom?

And, if this does sound reasonable, what is stopping you from living this life?

[Habitat]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

what is stopping you from living this life?

The practical problems of establishing and maintaining themselves and those near them, in the world, would account for a lot of people not having time and resources to devote to expanding their focus, who otherwise might. Run yourself ragged with concerns about things outside that circle, you finish up being ineffective for all. But of course, we are know plenty of people who are fabulously well off, do not use that security to be less selfish.

[Crazy Horse]

9 minutes ago, Habitat said:

The practical problems of establishing and maintaining themselves and those near them, in the world, would account for a lot of people not having time and resources to devote to expanding their focus, who otherwise might. Run yourself ragged with concerns about things outside that circle, you finish up being ineffective for all. But of course, we are know plenty of people who are fabulously well off, do not use that security to be less selfish.

It has nothing to do with running yourself ragged. Or what other people do or say!

A smile, a laugh, just listening to someone with the whole of your attention. Lots of little things that add-up to something. Something good, and something peaceful.

Yes folks have problems in life. We all have to move, doing, working etc.

So why not do these things from an attitude of loving kindness? Especially if the effect is going to be so positive?

[Habitat]

12 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

It has nothing to do with running yourself ragged. Or what other people do or say!

A smile, a laugh, just listening to someone with the whole of your attention. Lots of little things that add-up to something. Something good, and something peaceful.

Yes folks have problems in life. We all have to move, doing, working etc.

So why not do these things from an attitude of loving kindness? Especially if the effect is going to be so positive?

Have you ever noticed the difference in the friendliness of strangers in the city, compared to small towns ? The stresses and strains of life seem greater in the city, or perhaps the type of people who live in small towns are less competitive, and like to be more community minded and co-operative. And of course the give-the-other-fella-hell types are quickly shunned in small communities, and are better in the anonymous big city, where there are plenty of people they will only interact with once, or never. There is less pay-off for bonhomie in the city. The village is more likely to see the best of people.

[Jujo-jo]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

A philosophical question concerning our over-all ability to take back control over a large chunk of our lives.

Does ones attitude, and therefore ones actions of loving kindness produce a sense of peace, and does this inner quietness help an individual to see things more clearly? 

Is it reasonable to suggest that love equals peace, and that peace equals wisdom?

Is it simple cause and effect?

And if one can live this life, would this also mean more skill, grace, integrity and happiness, which in-turn feed back into the loop, so to speak, of more love, a greater sense of peace and well-being, and even greater wisdom?

And, if this does sound reasonable, what is stopping you from living this life?

Yes that makes sense.

What stops me is being human and P.T.S.D. and disrespectful, rude, mean people that at times interrupt my happiness. lol but for the most part I am pretty happy! 

[Crazy Horse]

42 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Have you ever noticed the difference in the friendliness of strangers in the city, compared to small towns ? The stresses and strains of life seem greater in the city, or perhaps the type of people who live in small towns are less competitive, and like to be more community minded and co-operative. And of course the give-the-other-fella-hell types are quickly shunned in small communities, and are better in the anonymous big city, where there are plenty of people they will only interact with once, or never. There is less pay-off for bonhomie in the city. The village is more likely to see the best of people.

I think there is some merit as to what you say.

Personally, on a good day at least, I don't judge the other fella, I bless those who annoy me, I send love to those who disturb me, and I will listen to anyone without any prejudice.

I will give anyone "a fair go", and try to do something helpful.

Thereby, in theory, turning my whole life into one long practice/process. Adding what works, and substracting what doesn't.

And knowing/seeing/feeling the peace for my-self 

 

[Crazy Horse]

33 minutes ago, Jujo-jo said:

Yes that makes sense.

What stops me is being human and P.T.S.D. and disrespectful, rude, mean people that at times interrupt my happiness. lol but for the most part I am pretty happy! 

Our emotions effect our over-all well being, health, happiness and even our clarity of thought.

So getting into the habit of being positive, seems like a good move. 

 

[Horta]

8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

A philosophical question concerning our over-all ability to take back control over a large chunk of our lives.

Does ones attitude, and therefore ones actions of loving kindness produce a sense of peace, and does this inner quietness help an individual to see things more clearly? 

Is it reasonable to suggest that love equals peace, and that peace equals wisdom?

Is it simple cause and effect?

And if one can live this life, would this also mean more skill, grace, integrity and happiness, which in-turn feed back into the loop, so to speak, of more love, a greater sense of peace and well-being, and even greater wisdom?

And, if this does sound reasonable, what is stopping you from living this life?

That all sounds great. The problem is modern society/lifestyle seems based on competition, socially people seem to settle into relationships and cliques with all sorts of weird emotional dependancies they don't understand (and call it love and friendship lol) which helps define their attitudes (social conformity), and being genuinely caring and peaceful seems like a very unnatural thing for humans in general anyway (outside of their immediate group). In a nutshell, I think we're all crazy to more or less extent lol.

So it would require a huge battle against our own nature to achieve this (despite that it might be worthwhile). To genuinely try to be like this I mean, not just be one of those people who thinks they're the finished product and talks a good game (but are often the biggest a-holes lol).

No matter the effort put in, peace is a struggle as there can be lots of demands and it's difficult not to get sucked back into the rat race again eventually. Have often wondered what it would be like if we could give everyone the same consideration we do those closest to us.

Somehow when people talk of "love" it all seems sugary and nice like there's no downside. I don't see it like that. No doubt it can be, but we're more apt to be "loving" when it's just an instinctive behaviour, or when it's easy and/or is convenient. Somehow even as an atheist I see the image of christ on the cross, with all of the pain and misery, as symbolic of love also. It's certainly not always nice, easy or convenient. Perhaps us humans in general are not really up to it?

Edited February 5, 2020 by Horta

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Horta said:

That all sounds great. The problem is modern society/lifestyle seems based on competition, socially people seem to settle into relationships and cliques with all sorts of weird emotional dependancies they don't understand (and call it love and friendship lol) which helps define their attitudes (social conformity), and being genuinely caring and peaceful seems like a very unnatural thing for humans in general anyway (outside of their immediate group). In a nutshell, I think we're all crazy to more or less extent lol.

So it would require a huge battle against our own nature to achieve this (despite that it might be worthwhile). To genuinely try to be like this I mean, not just be one of those people who thinks they're the finished product and talks a good game (but are often the biggest a-holes lol).

No matter the effort put in, peace is a struggle as there can be lots of demands and it's difficult not to get sucked back into the rat race again eventually. Have often wondered what it would be like if we could give everyone the same consideration we do those closest to us.

Somehow when people talk of "love" it all seems sugary and nice like there's no downside. I don't see it like that. No doubt it can be, but we're more apt to be "loving" when it's just an instinctive behaviour, or when it's easy and/or is convenient. Somehow even as an atheist I see the image of christ on the cross, with all of the pain and misery, as symbolic of love also. It's certainly not always nice, easy or convenient. Perhaps us humans in general are not really up to it?

Its more than just a nice sounding platitude, lol  I know, because I have lived at both ends of the spectrum....

But you are right, much of society is competition based, Yet I always saw kindness as a very attractive personality trait. Calmness and composure also demonstrate a level of confidence and control, and wisdom is, er, just wise. The point being that if you are in a competitive environment, then these things will help you get-on. And if they don't, then perhaps you are in the wrong place!

And I see human beings as being empathic, kind and caring in nature.

Peace on the other hand can be a struggle. But examining my own life I can clearly see all the times I have felt regret and shame, it was never because I did something kind.

And the "love" I am talking about here, is more a platonic love, i.e., you give without any expectations, in the moment, just to help. The composure, happiness, joy, grace, skill, integrity and wisdom, are all simply the results of a sustained effort.

[XenoFish]

17 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

A philosophical question concerning our over-all ability to take back control over a large chunk of our lives.

Does ones attitude, and therefore ones actions of loving kindness produce a sense of peace, and does this inner quietness help an individual to see things more clearly? No.

Is it reasonable to suggest that love equals peace, and that peace equals wisdom? No. Some of the best lessons of life are learned through failure and suffering.

Is it simple cause and effect? What is?

And if one can live this life, would this also mean more skill, grace, integrity and happiness, which in-turn feed back into the loop, so to speak, of more love, a greater sense of peace and well-being, and even greater wisdom? No. It makes you a target for opportunist.

And, if this does sound reasonable, what is stopping you from living this life? It's sounds like a bad idea. 

 

[Horta]

11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Its more than just a nice sounding platitude, lol  I know, because I have lived at both ends of the spectrum....

But you are right, much of society is competition based, Yet I always saw kindness as a very attractive personality trait. Calmness and composure also demonstrate a level of confidence and control, and wisdom is, er, just wise. The point being that if you are in a competitive environment, then these things will help you get-on. And if they don't, then perhaps you are in the wrong place!

You sound like you are talking "personality", I was thinking something more fundamental. I doubt you can simply decide to be peaceful and wise (or loving), because it sounds nice. That's likely to result in lots of repression of feelings that never get dealt with.

I can't help notice many used car salesmen demonstrate great calmness and confidence which really helps them "get on". It's nice to have a nice personality, though I never pay it too much notice. It's a social construct, often used to mask the reality underneath. Eventually you can find what people are made of, there are some real "diamonds in the rough" that are wonderful people despite not being especially calm or confident, or claiming to be wise.

Simply moving on because you feel you are in the "wrong place" when you can't "get on" isn't always an option for some either, and doesn't put food on the table. It's passive with the risk of being a pushover who goes from place to place because they would rather be "zen" than confront the situation itself. Learning how to do this while still holding your end of the bargain to those dependant on you requires intelligence, some courage at times and great learning. Eventually it may be necessary to move on. That seems to be how wisdom is acquired. It also seems more loving.

Quote

And I see human beings as being empathic, kind and caring in nature.

Would love to visit your planet one day!

On my planet they stone people for adultery, discriminate terribly against minorities, huge numbers of people live in poverty, inequality is rife and war is common. People are turned into easily manipulated drones who don't care as long as they're entertained and their main task is to work so that they can consume. Beauty and virtue are rarely valued for their own sake and what can't be monetised is worthless. Species are disappearing because we need the resources and can't go without our trinkets. They (sometimes) have nice personalities though!

If an intelligent alien observed this planet it would surely appear that some weird, mindless insect species had taken over it. Or perhaps some bacterial species is infecting it?

Quote

Peace on the other hand can be a struggle. But examining my own life I can clearly see all the times I have felt regret and shame, it was never because I did something kind.

Misplaced kindness can be as bad as it's opposite. Conflict can be unavoidable and there are situations where being kind might be the least of your concerns. All things being equal, kindness is good, but this pov doesn't seem to have worldly experience as it's base.

Quote

And the "love" I am talking about here, is more a platonic love, i.e., you give without any expectations, in the moment, just to help. The composure, happiness, joy, grace, skill, integrity and wisdom, are all simply the results of a sustained effort.

People speak too much about love. Acta non verba - nullius in verba (actions not words - accept no one's words) should be the motto there. I don't even like the word in this context because it is so vague. A lot of disasters have "love" as their motive. An old saying...the road to hell is designed with love and paved with good intentions.

I prefer "compassion" as somehow that seems to have a more equitable meaning.

I once studied compassion for years, by looking for it in myself and others, reviewing any relevant situation at the end of every day to learn about it, even meditating on it. To see what it was. There are some wonderful techniques of alternate psychology that can be used this way and some great insights can be had. The problem for most is they might not enjoy what they find.

You might see this as a somewhat cynical view, but I really think there is no shortcut to gaining the qualities you speak of. They are forged in the fire, so to speak.

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 

You are right, there is nothing wrong with learning from failure... Only that wasn't the question.

Cause and Effect - loving kindness helps create an inner peace, and that inner peace helps us to see things more clearly.

And having more wisdom make you less of a target.

And why exactly is having more skill, grace, wisdom, compassion, health, integrity, courage, creativity, composure etc, such a bad idea?

[Crazy Horse]

38 minutes ago, Horta said:

You sound like you are talking "personality", I was thinking something more fundamental. I doubt you can simply decide to be peaceful and wise (or loving), because it sounds nice. That's likely to result in lots of repression of feelings that never get dealt with.

Actually you can simply decide, that is one of the points of the thread.

I can't help notice many used car salesmen demonstrate great calmness and confidence which really helps them "get on". It's nice to have a nice personality, though I never pay it too much notice. It's a social construct, often used to mask the reality underneath. Eventually you can find what people are made of, there are some real "diamonds in the rough" that are wonderful people despite not being especially calm or confident, or claiming to be wise.

That all depends upon the level of sincerity, and whether you actually cherish this inner peace, and the clear sightedness - or something else. You have to make a decision first, get your priorities in order.

Simply moving on because you feel you are in the "wrong place" when you can't "get on" isn't always an option for some either, and doesn't put food on the table. It's passive with the risk of being a pushover who goes from place to place because they would rather be "zen" than confront the situation itself. Learning how to do this while still holding your end of the bargain to those dependant on you requires intelligence, some courage at times and great learning. Eventually it may be necessary to move on. That seems to be how wisdom is acquired. It also seems more loving.

You can stick-up-for-yourself, whilst still remaining calm, kind, and compassionate. That's what I have been calling "skill".

Would love to visit your planet one day!

You can do it today, its your choice.

On my planet they stone people for adultery, discriminate terribly against minorities, huge numbers of people live in poverty, inequality is rife and war is common. People are turned into easily manipulated drones who don't care as long as they're entertained and their main task is to work so that they can consume. Beauty and virtue are rarely valued for their own sake and what can't be monetised is worthless. Species are disappearing because we need the resources and can't go without our trinkets. They (sometimes) have nice personalities though!

Exactly! Why? because there isn't enough folks living a life of loving kindness. I think you just proved my point.

If an intelligent alien observed this planet it would surely appear that some weird, mindless insect species had taken over it. Or perhaps some bacterial species is infecting it?

Who knows?

Misplaced kindness can be as bad as it's opposite. Conflict can be unavoidable and there are situations where being kind might be the least of your concerns. All things being equal, kindness is good, but this pov doesn't seem to have worldly experience as it's base.

Love can be tough, true love is not afraid to say no!

People speak too much about love. Acta non verba - nullius in verba (actions not words - accept no one's words) should be the motto there. I don't even like the word in this context because it is so vague. A lot of disasters have "love" as their motive. An old saying...the road to hell is designed with love and paved with good intentions.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but so is the road to Heaven. It is with the actual amount of integrity that makes the difference.

I prefer "compassion" as somehow that seems to have a more equitable meaning.

Compassion is simply the feeling one gets from seeing someone suffer. Loving kindness on the other hand, is actually doing something to help ease that pain.

I once studied compassion for years, by looking for it in myself and others, reviewing any relevant situation at the end of every day to learn about it, even meditating on it. To see what it was. There are some wonderful techniques of alternate psychology that can be used this way and some great insights can be had. The problem for most is they might not enjoy what they find.

I guess that might be true, so the only way for someone to know the truth, is to try it for themselves.

You might see this as a somewhat cynical view, but I really think there is no shortcut to gaining the qualities you speak of. They are forged in the fire, so to speak.

There is nothing wrong with a cynical, questioning view, so long as you are actually searching for the truth.

And yes, my experience, knowledge, compassion etc were forged in the fire.

 

I don't know how to chop-up little pieces of someone's quote, so I do the next best thing.

Thanks for an intelligent reply.

I hope you have a great day!

[+joc]

30 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

I don't know how to chop-up little pieces of someone's quote, so I do the next best thing.

Thanks for an intelligent reply.

I hope you have a great day!

 

30 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

 

 

Actually you can simply decide, that is one of the points of the thread. 

That all depends upon the level of sincerity, and whether you actually cherish this inner peace, and the clear sightedness - or something else. You have to make a decision first, get your priorities in order.

You can stick-up-for-yourself, whilst still remaining calm, kind, and compassionate. That's what I have been calling "skill".

You can do it today, its your choice.

Exactly! Why? because there isn't enough folks living a life of loving kindness. I think you just proved my point.

Who knows?

Love can be tough, true love is not afraid to say no!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but so is the road to Heaven. It is with the actual amount of integrity that makes the difference.

Compassion is simply the feeling one gets from seeing someone suffer. Loving kindness on the other hand, is actually doing something to help ease that pain.

I guess that might be true, so the only way for someone to know the truth, is to try it for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with a cynical, questioning view, so long as you are actually searching for the truth.

And yes, my experience, knowledge, compassion etc were forged in the fire.

Are you preaching?  It seems like you started a thread just so you could preach your own personal religion.  Just sayin' .... sounds like you are preaching.

Edit:  @Jujo-jodisagrees...I concur with Jujo-jo.   I think everyone...myself included...is beginning to sound like they are preaching something.  No harm, no foul...carry on my friend. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by joc

[Jujo-jo]

21 minutes ago, joc said:

 

Are you preaching?  It seems like you started a thread just so you could preach your own personal religion.  Just sayin' .... sounds like you are preaching.

That doesn't really sound like preaching. lol more kind of like his opinions and thoughts on things is all...

Edited February 6, 2020 by Jujo-jo

[+joc]

Just now, Jujo-jo said:

That doesn't really sound like preaching. lol more kind of like his opinions and thoughts on things it all...

Fair enough. 

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

You are right, there is nothing wrong with learning from failure... Only that wasn't the question.

Cause and Effect - loving kindness helps create an inner peace, and that inner peace helps us to see things more clearly.

Which in itself is a purely selfish act. I equate inner peace with stagnation and boredom. If you've found inner peace then you have nothing challenging in life. 

And having more wisdom make you less of a target.

And why exactly is having more skill, grace, wisdom, compassion, health, integrity, courage, creativity, composure etc, such a bad idea?

Those qualities can be developed without loving kindness. It is only through conflict that we find our real nature. Wisdom is gain through failure, courage grows from overcoming fear, creativity is just a well exercised imagination. Skill is something that comes through practice and experience. 

You just like a few others exhibit and encourage what is known as toxic positivity.  

The fires of hell forge the greatest strength. 

[Crazy Horse]

1 hour ago, Jujo-jo said:

That doesn't really sound like preaching. lol more kind of like his opinions and thoughts on things is all...

Yes, thoughts, opinions, and some personal experience.

 

[Crazy Horse]

18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You just like a few others exhibit and encourage what is known as toxic positivity.  

The fires of hell forge the greatest strength. 

There is absolutely nothing toxic about genuine love, understanding, compassion and loving kindness.

Negativity, pessimism, hateful and selfish actions on the other hand, are very toxic.

Love is not the problem here, but a lack of love.

[Crazy Horse]

30 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You just like a few others exhibit and encourage what is known as toxic positivity.  

The fires of hell forge the greatest strength. 

And to answer your other points.

How can creating an inner peace be selfish? Being angry, hateful, greedy, and jealous, those are all selfish actions, and toxic! 

And believe me, there is nothing boring about having a genuine inner peace...

Conflict and failure can make us wiser, but what is wisdom and skill, and courage and creativity good for, why attain these things, if not to avoid conflict and failure?

[Grim Reaper 6]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:00 PM, Crazy Horse said:

A philosophical question concerning our over-all ability to take back control over a large chunk of our lives.

Does ones attitude, and therefore ones actions of loving kindness produce a sense of peace, and does this inner quietness help an individual to see things more clearly? 

Is it reasonable to suggest that love equals peace, and that peace equals wisdom?

Is it simple cause and effect?

And if one can live this life, would this also mean more skill, grace, integrity and happiness, which in-turn feed back into the loop, so to speak, of more love, a greater sense of peace and well-being, and even greater wisdom?

And, if this does sound reasonable, what is stopping you from living this life?

To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one’s family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one’s own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.

Peace

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

There is absolutely nothing toxic about genuine love, understanding, compassion and loving kindness.

Negativity, pessimism, hateful and selfish actions on the other hand, are very toxic.

Love is not the problem here, but a lack of love.

Love is not as in important as you think. Understanding is. If you want authentic wisdom then you need balance. You need a fine measure of both optimism and pessimism. If you tell a depressed person to "think happy thoughts", it's probably going to make them feel worse as it reminds them of what they lack. 

All actions at there core are selfish. The most selfish acts of kindness are found within those of religious/spiritual leaning. Because they act out of a desire for some reward. Even If they are not consciously aware of it. In some cases kind acts are only done because "God told them to". 

If you want to really focus on kindness and compassion at least be honest about your motivations. Love is highly overrated. You don't need to Love someone to be kind. 

I am at war with those who preach pure optimism. Those who only focus on that rainbows, sunshine, and happy kitty cat ideal that is not realistic. 

https://dominatedepression.com/positive-thinking-causes-depression/

[XenoFish]

10 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And to answer your other points.

How can creating an inner peace be selfish? Being angry, hateful, greedy, and jealous, those are all selfish actions, and toxic! 

And believe me, there is nothing boring about having a genuine inner peace...

Conflict and failure can make us wiser, but what is wisdom and skill, and courage and creativity good for, why attain these things, if not to avoid conflict and failure?

Answered your own question.

I said inner peace is stagnation. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one’s family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one’s own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.

Peace

Can you present your own thoughts? 

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Can you present your own thoughts? 

These are my own thoughts.

Peace