Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #601 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/15/2020 at 3:57 PM, jmccr8 said: Hi Diecherker Those laws against them are not religious based in this country and have not for quite some time, we are social animals that depend on group inter-action for survival and companionship and for the most part it is not a labor to be a part of the whole,.. so to speak in most senses. jmccr8 I tend to disagree Such laws are always a part of our "religious"beliefs They may more accurately be based on spiritual values Eg the value of a human life It has almost no intrinsic value It has only the functional/economic value we puto init (hence slavery/ the historical lower value of women etc) However we can evolve a concpet or an idea that humans are unique or special and thus we make laws to protect them This is the foundation of most western law. Western property law comes from the biblical and abrahamic concept of a man's worth being tied to their property and that what we own is a part of us and cannot be stolen from us This evolved because the y were societies based on property and ownership. Staying alive required some wealth and surplus Earlier hunter gathering societies often had no such concept of personal ownership or theft The y took what the y needed, communally, from the land We do not have native american values and laws We dont have norse/ viking ones. We don't have traditional polynesian/melanesian or indigenous ones We dont even have Chinese ones. We have ones tied to our own religious and cultural beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #602 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 12:33 AM, Sherapy said: This just sounds like a walker story. lol I was just going to comment myself While i don't disbelieve some of these stories, I find then as hard to believe as you find mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #603 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 1:47 AM, eight bits said: Except he would have been in prison in his dreams. Just like the real thing. Na; if i was dreaming i would simply walk through the walls (or bars) as i do in any such dream In my dream subconscious there is nothing which can restrict me. That applies, in many (but not all) ways, to real life as well. Freedom and imprisonment are more states of mind than physical realities. ie many more humans are trapped within mental constructs, than are incarcerated in physical buildings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #604 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 5:30 AM, Crikey said: Thanks, yes I daresay that Walker is almost as hard as me.. PS- if there are any forum members who are having a rough patch, feel free to let my 'Iron Man' toughness rub off on them- "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Bible:Proverbs 7:17) He is cool ,but not my mr walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #605 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 6:24 AM, jmccr8 said: Hi Crikey That's nice but now you are in this forum now. It is not my intention put you in a difficult position I am just looking for clarification about what you said because it seemed incomplete. Generally speaking I am not a mate, cuz, or bro nor do I address others as such unless I have known them for many years. I don't know but for some reason it doesn't sound like the whole story and just out of curiosity were there no white, asian or mid- eastern drug dealers as some of your comments come across as a tad racist and really all one needed to say was drug dealers. jmccr8 not really. In Britain at the time Race was an issue and the race card a powerful one. I can easily believe this story, just as it stands, given the attitudes of the time. (that is not to say I do believe it but that it is entirely believable )The police were forced to discontinue using racial descriptions of suspects because of sensitivities on the issue, even though they were accurate, and thus helpful, identifiers And while one should not stereotype a people, one should not deny statistical facts on crime and criminality, either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #606 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 9:25 AM, Sherapy said: I agree, it sounds made up, he reports drug dealers (black ones) wink wink and he goes to jail. My sister thought it was “her” iPhone that was in the employees purse she stole it from (at a gas station) and when she was arrested she screamed Brady Violation ( withholding evidence that would prejudice her). What actually happened was the cops encouraged the girl to press charges against my sister. That is because you didn't live in the society of that time. Neither did i, but I've seen enough programmes, and read enough books, to know what it was like, and how it affected people. Basically whole suburbs were "no go" areas for police not just because of the danger to them (and remember ordinary police were unarmed in Britain) but for fear of setting off riots by their presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #607 Share Posted February 17, 2020 21 hours ago, Hammerclaw said: Unfortunately, you're walking in some pretty big footprints here, when it comes to tales that grow in the telling. Your a poor man's William Dobson, compared to Mr Walker's Anthony van Dyck, if I might be baroque about. I disagree. If this story is true(and i have no reason to doubt it) it trumps any of my own real life adventures. It goes to an almost Orwellian scenario of one man vs a society's attitudes and prejudices of the time I must admit that if i had been there, i would have phoned in an anonymous tip off from a pay phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #608 Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 hours ago, XenoFish said: I call it a cookie jar problem. Place the jar on the counter and say nothing, tell the kid not to touch the cookies in the jar and see what happens. But also tell the kid( truthfully) that, if he eats a cookie he will die Natural selection at it's finest. By the way, what other information does the child need? The choice must be made with the information available And adam and eve were not children They were quite intelligent adults. They knew the names of all the plants and animals in the garden and had the job of tending to it all. The y (apparently) did not have knowldge of the nature of goodness and sin but they did understand right from wrong (otherwise the story makes no moral or literal sense) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #609 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I dont judge others, and have never really thought about your life or that of any other poster( apart from a couple who are almost too different for me to comprehend) Why on earth would your life be crappy ? it sounds as if you are living the life you choose, which is the first step to contentment I am the happiest, most contented person i know. I walk around the place singing and feeling joy However there are probably a few others who are also just as happy/content I am the only one i know who does a little dance of joy in the shop, bank, post office etc., or greets people with a song or piece of verse, because my heart is so filled with happiness. Hi Walker I was joking. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #610 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Mr Walker said: not offhand Many were read pre internet and I dont even know if the y exist online However i am not the sort of person who sticks their neck out on something unless i am reasonably sure it has a t least an arguable case. Basically hammer is correct. judaic priests married had kids etc just like other jews. However i have read several times that the y were excused from some of the laws requiring marriage because they were priests The one concerning a requirement to marry your brothers widow comes to mind offhand and unreferenced The y also were not allowed to marry divorced women (again from memory) Hi Walker Oh well I just thought it might be an interesting read. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #611 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I tend to disagree Hi Walker Nothing unusual about that. 4 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Such laws are always a part of our "religious"beliefs They may more accurately be based on spiritual values I have relatives that are judges, lawyers, and prosecutors and during discussions we have had the legal field does not recognize religious sources for civil laws and as I stated earlier that hominids have been working as groups for survival. There are several instances of care for infirmed with archaic hominids so it is not a far stretch to infer that they had rules for social order prior to the development of religious constructs. jmccr8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #612 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr Walker said: not really. In Britain at the time Race was an issue and the race card a powerful one. Hi Walker He wasn't talking to us about it then in the past he is discussing it here and now so it should be expressed in regard to present norms.If they we a gang like the Crypts and he said Crypts that would be a better descriptor and really all he had to say was drug dealers. 3 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I can easily believe this story, That's your right and I am not out of line saying I don't think he is telling the whole story because my life experience tells me something is amiss. 3 hours ago, Mr Walker said: )The police were forced to discontinue using racial descriptions of suspects because of sensitivities on the issue, even though they were accurate, and thus helpful, identifiers I assume you get a form of crime watchers bulletins so when they play a video or show a picture of an individual their heritage is usually quite obvious and they do give a physical description. They are looking for an individual. when you say you( not you) targeted a group of black people especially when it is well known that almost every ethnic group has a criminal element you are creating a focus that affects many more people than the people involved. 3 hours ago, Mr Walker said: And while one should not stereotype a people, one should not deny statistical facts on crime and criminality, either Well I didn't, and why certain groups in specific areas are given no opportunity to change is part of the problem and it is a calculated and managed social problem because our system needs certain amounts of disadvantaged people to function properly. Margret Thatcher said that welfare and unemployment was a needed part of balance for the system to work. jmccr8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #613 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker I was joking. jmccr8 oh ok. One of my "non skills" is detecting humour. I like any form of humour except that which uses ridicule etc to attack people The cleverer the form of humour, the more i enjoy it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #614 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: oh ok. One of my "non skills" is detecting humour. I like any form of humour except that which uses ridicule etc to attack people The cleverer the form of humour, the more i enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #615 Share Posted February 17, 2020 48 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker He wasn't talking to us about it then in the past he is discussing it here and now so it should be expressed in regard to present norms.If they we a gang like the Crypts and he said Crypts that would be a better descriptor and really all he had to say was drug dealers. That's your right and I am not out of line saying I don't think he is telling the whole story because my life experience tells me something is amiss. I assume you get a form of crime watchers bulletins so when they play a video or show a picture of an individual their heritage is usually quite obvious and they do give a physical description. They are looking for an individual. when you say you( not you) targeted a group of black people especially when it is well known that almost every ethnic group has a criminal element you are creating a focus that affects many more people than the people involved. Well I didn't, and why certain groups in specific areas are given no opportunity to change is part of the problem and it is a calculated and managed social problem because our system needs certain amounts of disadvantaged people to function properly. Margret Thatcher said that welfare and unemployment was a needed part of balance for the system to work. jmccr8 My understanding was that this was in the time around the period of race riots in England The guys even older than me, so this would make sense No crime here . Police use code words to identify suspects. They aren't allowed to use racial descriptions in public announcements etc Its seen as racial profiling and I believe is illegal or at leasts discouraged You almost never see a racial description in a media report even though the accompanying film clip makes the ethnicity of a captured suspect obvious If there is a danger to people from a specific group of people from one ethnic background then this needs to be made public so the t people can alter their behaviours Eg I would no longer walk the street of my home town at night after my brother who is over 6 foot, very fit and strong was ambushed and king hit from behind by a group of indigenous people out to "get a white man" (they didnt know him and he was just a target of opportunity. No robbery, no warning, no request for money etc., just stopped by two blokes then hit from behind by a third bloke who had been hiding in the shadows) we were going to retire there because it is the home town for both of us, and our families live there. We even had a house we owned there But we decided to retire in a smaller town with no crime at all (not even grafiti) , where you can not just walk alone at night, but leave your home and car doors open all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #616 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker Nothing unusual about that. I have relatives that are judges, lawyers, and prosecutors and during discussions we have had the legal field does not recognize religious sources for civil laws and as I stated earlier that hominids have been working as groups for survival. There are several instances of care for infirmed with archaic hominids so it is not a far stretch to infer that they had rules for social order prior to the development of religious constructs. jmccr8 Not sure what you mean by "recognise" All western law remains founded on judeo christian principles and not any other values or beliefs. Of course it has been modernised revised and updated, but the basics remain the same except in france where the law was secularised in the french revolution/napoleonic period IF a being has enough language skills to construct concepts of love care equality "human" value etc., then it will have spiritual and religious beliefs Thus, so far, humans are the only species on earth to evolve both these things in combination Anything else are evolved practices which improve survival and thus breed into a species. Ps some archaic hominids were definitely human, even if not homo sapiens I agree You can recognise humanity by its behaviours and those behaviors are constructed on beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 17, 2020 #617 Share Posted February 17, 2020 It's my opinion that something can be prophesied, or predetermined, and yet still be Free Will. The logic twists, because if the person didnt have free will, would they have picked that choice, and thus the prophesied event might not have happened. It seems like the person has no choice, but actually there is choice, just the prophet knew what it would be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #618 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker He wasn't talking to us about it then in the past he is discussing it here and now so it should be expressed in regard to present norms.If they we a gang like the Crypts and he said Crypts that would be a better descriptor and really all he had to say was drug dealers. That's your right and I am not out of line saying I don't think he is telling the whole story because my life experience tells me something is amiss. I assume you get a form of crime watchers bulletins so when they play a video or show a picture of an individual their heritage is usually quite obvious and they do give a physical description. They are looking for an individual. when you say you( not you) targeted a group of black people especially when it is well known that almost every ethnic group has a criminal element you are creating a focus that affects many more people than the people involved. Well I didn't, and why certain groups in specific areas are given no opportunity to change is part of the problem and it is a calculated and managed social problem because our system needs certain amounts of disadvantaged people to function properly. Margret Thatcher said that welfare and unemployment was a needed part of balance for the system to work. jmccr8 It probably is, which illustrates the need for a different system. EVERYONE has a chance to make the best of themselves. Some will begin with many advantages but there is a huge range within which any person may eventually fall From a lifer in gaol to a millionaire However a better system would allow more people to make more of their lives. A country like australia offers everyone a good, basically free, education What they do with that opportunity is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #619 Share Posted February 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Not sure what you mean by "recognise" All western law remains founded on judeo christian principles and not any other values or beliefs. Hi Walker I can't speak for the rest of the world only from what I know, one day I found 7 years of the Canada Criminal Code and read them quite vigorously which is why I engaged discussions with members of the law society and not all of the were related to me. I did a renovation on one project and consultation for another for my member of parliament and had conversations with the head of the prosecution that I met through him. All of them have said the same thing society evolved to create rules to live by and are not based on religious constructs. Sub-consciously there may be influences that coincide but we are talking about men of reason here. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #620 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: EVERYONE has a chance to make the best of themselves. Hi Walker Of course we do and I'm still working on me 7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: However a better system would allow more people to make more of their lives. It would take a massive toll on many people unless it was one of those cute ": nose twitching Bewitched" moments. Think about it for a moment people invest large amounts of money to qualify and get a degree to help those poor disadvantaged people and have to pay their student loans you heal the worlds wounds and your displacing other people that have no job to pay their loans. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 17, 2020 #621 Share Posted February 17, 2020 53 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: My understanding was that this was in the time around the period of race riots in England Yes it was and this isn't Hollywood so we can't say it like it is. I can understand you lack of essence for understanding racism we have different experiences and if someone would have been a bigot about me being Irish I would have thanked them We are discussing this in the present and can/do exercise a social awareness for expressing certain subjects. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted February 17, 2020 #622 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: All western law remains founded on judeo christian principles and not any other values or beliefs. Hahaha, ah, no. Where will I find freedom of religion in Judeo-Christian principles? Where will I find the idea that government power ultimately resides in the governed? The Bible does not feature very prominently in the sources for America's Constitution which had a lot more to do with Enlightenment thinking. Edited February 17, 2020 by Liquid Gardens 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #623 Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Walker Of course we do and I'm still working on me It would take a massive toll on many people unless it was one of those cute ": nose twitching Bewitched" moments. Think about it for a moment people invest large amounts of money to qualify and get a degree to help those poor disadvantaged people and have to pay their student loans you heal the worlds wounds and your displacing other people that have no job to pay their loans. jmccr8 IMO Australia has one of the best balances between capitalism and socialism Eg schooling and medical expenses are either free or very cheap depending on your income The rich pay enough taxes to support the poor, but not enough to create a disincentive to create wealth Thus here it is possible for a family to go from poverty to multimillionaires within a generation through either education or hard /clever work Poverty (here) is largely a matter of perception with very few unable to be provided with adequate shelter, food, clothing, etc except where the y choose to make this difficult by purchasing new phones tv s etc, or otherwise spend on wants not needs I understand it may be very difernt in America Here my wife and i live comfortably on 38000 a year including 12000 spent on our mortgage., All medical expenses are basically free and there is a lot of financial support for carers for people with disabilities or old age. Still my TV is 9 years old, my phone at least 5 ,My computer about 10 and my car 7 years We haven't been on a holiday for 15 years But none of that worries us at all.We are warm safe well fed and occupied every day Books and dvds are free from the state library sytem and magazines and books can be borrowed free online Free papers are available a t coffee shops and libraries It is a bit of a struggle to pay electricity and water despite us having solar power and batteries and large water tanks but we also get subsidies on all forms of govt charges, being aged pensioners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted February 17, 2020 #624 Share Posted February 17, 2020 gee all Jesus was the ancestor of Isaac, while Mohammad was the ancestor of Ismael, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted February 17, 2020 #625 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Yes it was and this isn't Hollywood so we can't say it like it is. I can understand you lack of essence for understanding racism we have different experiences and if someone would have been a bigot about me being Irish I would have thanked them We are discussing this in the present and can/do exercise a social awareness for expressing certain subjects. jmccr8 I disagree Our present attitudes and values evolve from our past experiences His experience of unjust imprisonment, basically because of racial problems, shaped his attitudes The real argument is, is the story true and should he allow it to shape his atitudes .My tentative response to both is yes I dont have anytime at all for subjective, politically correct, speak We need to be honest, clear, and objective, and able to say exactly what a problem is in order to correct or overcome that problem Poverty and disadvantage are not excuses for poor behaviour, although we should be working towards reducing poverty and disdvanathe Rich or poor, black or white, the laws and rules of a democracy should be applied equally to all If there is a lot of "black" poverty, and this is causing crime, then we need to reduce the poverty, but not allow it to become an excuse for illegal or uncivil behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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