How can Judas have betrayed Jesus?

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I don’t think it is for you to dictate how one who has worked hard, made money should spend it and if they choose to spend it on themselves they should be judged for it. 

For ex: The path of the wage earner for a family of dependents is years of selflessness and generosity and a person damn well has the right to spend money on themselves as much as they want. My husband worked his but off to care for us and I encourage him to enjoy and think about himself now, why the hell not we have plenty, he deserves to pamper himself. 

I don’t think that the only way to make an impact is to have money, but certainly it gives options. 

I know a few men who placed caring for their parents as their priority and gave their lives to be of service by giving of themselves. These kids give up their dreams for a greater purpose by choice. It’s one thing to care for mom and dad for a few years with help financially it is another to do this and be the bread winner as a young person. For me, these folks stand out as compassionate people. 

Acts of kindness or being charitable can be as simple as smiling at someone, or helping an older disabled person cross the street, or stepping up and being the safe place kids can go to after school where they can get help with their homework and a snack, or  volunteering at hospice, or taking care of a friends pet while they have surgery etc. 
 

Overcall it seems like we agree. 

Sure we have  legal right to spend everything we earn  on ourselves  (except of course for the taxes levies fees and charges set by govts.:) ) The question is do we have a moral right o do so Another question is,  " What will be the eventual outcomes if we continue either practice?n " 

You present a strongly American view which is why, 50 years after Australia developed a universal health and medical scheme you still struggle to implement one and thuis the poor cannot get basic medicl and helath services 

A radio  commentator  said recently the y were staggered to see so many Americans with crooked teeth and other dental problems when he walked down a street in America This is simply not seen in Austrlaia, where dental care is provided free or very cheaply for all children. America rightly or wrongly distrusts even a sniff of socialism and sees individuals as entirely responsible for caring for themselves 

We have always had a sense of mateship and thus have built in a strong socialist welfare system alongside a thriving capitalist economy 

Charity is an act of giving which would not be needed ina just and fair economic system Ie charity is good, but a symptom of  an illness in a system if it is required     

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Mr Walker said:

It is a philosophy.

In my case it was taught by my parents as humanist principles but it is also found in many religions as a natural truth

Not to give everything away because then, by being poor, you  can do nothing for others but to use your talents wisely and care for yourself AND for others 

Its about extremes.

Most westerners are extremely well off; far beyond what the y need 

This is bad in two ways 

First it is unfair and harms others. Second it alters your mind set making you more greedy materialist and constantly  seeking contentment/happiness through  material well being 

Rather if we realised tha t ALL emotional feelings like happiness come from  with in we could stop trying to be happy from wealth and just choose to be happy.

Thats the difference between materialism and spiritualism 

If taxation was high enough to ensure some social justice that would work But it would still be limited by nationality 

How do rich countries ensure that people in poor ones have the basics of water, shelter, food,  medicine, and education? 

Until we get pop growth under control, the only answer is  voluntary or forced sharing of wealth around the world. 

Voluntary would be better, but forced may become necessary to  prevent world wars and revolutions which threaten our lives 

We already have forced sharing--it's called taxation. It provides the basic necessities for all who qualify. It's not perfect or luxurious--except for the Third World poor who would love to have the life our institutional poor live. Happiness is what it is and it's different for everyone. Frankly, I thank God I don't have to live your life! What wretched bore it would be for me! You love it and you're welcome to it. You can console yourself that you don't have to live a life of wealth and luxury and drown in all that filthy lucre!

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

your secret isn't safe with me. 

 

That's what Judas said. 

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

That's what Judas said. 

 

 

So, that would make Tabitha Jesus.....and there the analogy breaks down. 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

We already have forced sharing--it's called taxation. It provides the basic necessities for all who qualify. It's not perfect or luxurious--except for the Third World poor who would love to have the life our institutional poor live. Happiness is what it is and it's different for everyone. Frankly, I thank God I don't have to live your life! What wretched bore it would be for me! You love it and you're welcome to it. You can console yourself that you don't have to live a life of wealth and luxury and drown in all that filthy lucre!

Indeed we do .Ithink I paid about 33% of all my income on taxes (although by giving away a lot i also managed to get good rebates which i could then also give away) Austrlia has one of the best mixed economies in the world and manages a good social welfare system without outrageously high taxes

Two points however 

it isnt enough to create social justice or a  living wage for everyone (although it is getting close)

second it doesn't encourage people to be altruistic Ie people are encouraged to earn and spend as much as the y can  Not work less, earn less, and thus allow work for more people  while still having a good lifestyle. 

You wouldn't be bored if you lived my life. i have never been bored for even a second in my adult life of over 50 years;  but of course if you lived my life it would be because you chose to and gained what you needed from  that life

I dont get people who need material things to create happiness and contentment The y are just states of mind and you can build them anywhere, if oyu are warm well fed not ill, and have purpose. 
 I suspect we are brainwashed from birth to become wage slaves in the system

.That means being encouraged to spend all we earn, and a bit more, to keep us in servitude 

Increasingly the govt and media generate subsidise and publicise  bread and circuses  (sports entertainment ) to keep up plebs content .

It is like the gladiators and arena spectacles of ancient Rome   

It is not consolation and it is not some form of absolution or need  to live a life by humanist (or religious) principles It gives purpose, meaning, and thus contentment and happiness with no guilt or self anger

I AM one of the richest humans on earth even  living as i do. Every need is met. I have purpose and i am happy and content.  How many people can claim all those things?

 .   

Edited February 20, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I don't need advice 

 

That's what Judas thought. 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Substantiate it with the posts and feedback that shows this then. 
 

Other wise you are seeking to cause forum warfare against me or troll me. 

 

Well you often post that you dont understand my posts, and i have received  half a dozen "confused" smileys from  you, at least  

You also often totally misunderstand them  

I put that down to you being totally different in mindsets, values, beliefs, and thinking process, from me .

[jmccr8]

Okay time for an infomercial.

 

 

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Is it one of those round ones, with the wringers on top?

I'll get one of those when the wood copper wears out.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

.....except alimony.

 

You know how to make that satisfying too?

For every dollar you're supposed to hand over, give two. 

That way for her, more will be less. 

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Habitat said:

I'll get one of those when the wood copper wears out.

Just get a galvanized tub and a new washboard. You can play them at the Saturday social.

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

You know how to make that satisfying too?

For every dollar you're supposed to hand over, give two. 

That way for her, more will be less. 

 

 

Cognitive thinking isn't your strong suit, is it? No wonder you rarely break the six word barrier.

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Sure we have  legal right to spend everything we earn  on ourselves  (except of course for the taxes levies fees and charges set by govts.:) ) The question is do we have a moral right o do so Another question is,  " What will be the eventual outcomes if we continue either practice?n " 

You present a strongly American view which is why, 50 years after Australia developed a universal health and medical scheme you still struggle to implement one and thuis the poor cannot get basic medicl and helath services 

A radio  commentator  said recently the y were staggered to see so many Americans with crooked teeth and other dental problems when he walked down a street in America This is simply not seen in Austrlaia, where dental care is provided free or very cheaply for all children. America rightly or wrongly distrusts even a sniff of socialism and sees individuals as entirely responsible for caring for themselves 

We have always had a sense of mateship and thus have built in a strong socialist welfare system alongside a thriving capitalist economy 

Charity is an act of giving which would not be needed ina just and fair economic system Ie charity is good, but a symptom of  an illness in a system if it is required     

I reserve judgment on Australia as I have not lived there.

The topic is about Judas.

I am moving on.

 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Indeed we do .Ithink I paid about 33% of all my income on taxes (although by giving away a lot i also managed to get good rebates which i could then also give away) Austrlia has one of the best mixed economies in the world and manages a good social welfare system without outrageously high taxes

Two points however 

it isnt enough to create social justice or a  living wage for everyone (although it is getting close)

second it doesn't encourage people to be altruistic Ie people are encouraged to earn and spend as much as the y can  Not work less, earn less, and thus allow work for more people  while still having a good lifestyle. 

You wouldn't be bored if you lived my life. i have never been bored for even a second in my adult life of over 50 years;  but of course if you lived my life it would be because you chose to and gained what you needed from  that life

I dont get people who need material things to create happiness and contentment The y are just states of mind and you can build them anywhere, if oyu are warm well fed not ill, and have purpose. 
 I suspect we are brainwashed from birth to become wage slaves in the system

.That means being encouraged to spend all we earn, and a bit more, to keep us in servitude 

Increasingly the govt and media generate subsidise and publicise  bread and circuses  (sports entertainment ) to keep up plebs content .

It is like the gladiators and arena spectacles of ancient Rome   

It is not consolation and it is not some form of absolution or need  to live a life by humanist (or religious) principles It gives purpose, meaning, and thus contentment and happiness with no guilt or self anger

I AM one of the richest humans on earth even  living as i do. Every need is met. I have purpose and i am happy and content.  How many people can claim all those things?

 .   

To your last sentence, I know many people who are financially abundant who say the same, who are rich on many levels.

 

I am not sure where you are getting the idea that you can only be happy if you are poor.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

To your last sentence, I know many people who are financially abundant who say the same, who are rich on many levels.

 

I am not sure where you are getting the idea that you can only be happy if you are poor.
 

 

 

Why would a person who has more be unhappy, can you explain your logic. 
 

 

Poor is relative. If someone dropped half a million in my account tomorrow, my financial circumstances would change significantly. If someone dropped ten million in yours, perhaps your circumstance would change dramatically, as well. Yet we both make do with what we have, bear what burdens need contrives for us. We both could have it a lot worse than we do. So what is poor?

[+DieChecker]

10 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

- Treaty of Tripoli, ratified unanimously by the US Senate in 1797, signed by President John Adams

It does read as you say. I read the surrounding text for context, and it appears genuine.

I did find this though...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

Quote

The Treaty is often cited, in discussions regarding the role of religion in United States government, for a clause in Article 11 of the English language American version which states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."[2] A superseding treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, omitted this phrase.[3][4]

Apparently the Treaty of Tripoli is famous for this line. Because in no other document has such a statement actually written down.

So the superseding tresty, some seven, or eight, years later didnt include that line? Maybe because those who drew up the follow on treaty knew it wasnt true??

Oh, and the Treaty of Tripoli was not written by the Amrricans, but by the Muslim officials of the Bey of Tripoli. The words saying that America was not a Christian nation were to allow these Muslims to save face. The Americans wanted peace so they signed it. The follow on documents (written by Americans) eliminated the words.

Edited February 20, 2020 by DieChecker

[+Sherapy]

14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Poor is relative. If someone dropped half a million in my account tomorrow, my financial circumstances would change significantly. If someone dropped ten million in yours, perhaps your circumstance would change dramatically, as well. Yet we both make do with what we have, bear what burdens need contrives for us. We both could have it a lot worse than we do. So what is poor?

Yet, if you are already content with the life you do have the sudden windfall of cash will just be that. You will just have more opportunities to experience the joy you already have, share more etc. You certainly wouldn’t be going on tirades about the evils of money. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Yet, if you are already content with the life you do have the sudden windfall of cash will just be that. You will just have more opportunities to experience the joy you already have, share more etc. You certainly wouldn’t be going on tirades about the evils of money. 
 

 

 

 

No, but we both can think of amounts that would upend life as we know it. Most of the time, it's a good thing. Sometimes, if one is already satisfied, the challenge is finding a new level of satisfaction. 

[+Sherapy]

20 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, but we both can think of amounts that would upend life as we know it. Most of the time, it's a good thing. Sometimes, if one is already satisfied, the challenge is finding a new level of satisfaction. 

I think we each have a “this is my best life ideal” and I get what’re you are coming from.

For me, it is about having someone that I can love and who loves me, it is about having great relationships with my kids, it’s about being of service in a  way that is personally rewarding, it is about having quality relationships. i have had personal success over and beyond what I even dreamed. For someone else this may not do it for them.

I want grandchildren and daughter- in- laws, this is in the works. My sons are in serious relationships it is really a matter of time.

I have it all.

For me, money enhances these things and I will say I am incredibly grateful for what I do have and the things I can do especially for my kids. My greatest joy is giving to my kids and other things I am involved in. Where I have  grown is in gratitude.If it all went tomorrow I would only be grateful. I don’t see money as an evil. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I think we each have a “this is my best life ideal” and I get what’re you are coming from.

For me, it is about having someone that I can love and who loves me, it is about having great relationships with my kids, it’s about being of service in a  way that is personally rewarding, it is about having quality relationships. Major success over and beyond what I dreamed.

I want grandchildren and daughter- in- laws, this is in the works. My sons are in serious relationships it is really a matter of time.

I have it all.

For me, money enhances these things and I will say I am incredibly grateful for what I do have and the things I can do especially for my kids. My greatest joy is giving to my kids and other things I am involved in. Where I have  grown is in gratitude.If it all went tomorrow I would only be grateful. I don’t see money as an evil. 

Well, if everyone will send me some, I'll see if I can find out. 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Money is always spent on something that brings psychological satisfaction.....except alimony.

Nice one.

But untrue.

Unfortunately we often spend money on things we believe will bring us happiness/satisfaction, but do not. 

Ps isn't alimony the price one pays for peace of mind?  and ears? 

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Is it one of those round ones, with the wringers on top?

True hicks still use a copper, wood fire, long smooth stick for stirring and mixing the clothes, and a block of bluo 

Bluo, keeping Australia's whites white and brights bright for more than 125 years. Bluo Laundry Additive, available at all major supermarkets in Australia   

[+Sherapy]

26 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Well, if everyone will send me some, I'll see if I can find out. 

You are honest, this is a blessing. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Sherapy

[Habitat]

As a funny bumper sticker I once saw said, "All I want is the chance to prove that money can't make me happy "

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

True hicks still use a copper, wood fire, long smooth stick for stirring and mixing the clothes, and a block of bluo 

Bluo, keeping Australia's whites white and brights bright for more than 125 years. Bluo Laundry Additive, available at all major supermarkets in Australia   

The blue bag used to be the thing.